Politics in The Northwest

donegalman1

Does it seem to anybody the race is already on and carved up?

I'm suprised it seems to be a for gone conclusion in East Donegal

Yeah, I'm on the record on the boards in thinking politicians should have a limited time on the job.

While I think Ciaran Brogan made a good councillor, better than expected infact, it seems to me that its already decided he's the Fianna Fail Candidate.

Surely Fianna fail and others should be trawling the county for others too, one would wonder why or how anyone enters these races.. if the same were to happen in a criminal trail the trial by media would result in a retrial.

Now I hope Clr Blake will reply, but not with the party Line..... I'd like to see the like of him even being considered.. why not?

He isn't a developer and his contributions to the board have been forthright.

Fine gael seem to be of in a tangent too.. its possible they are both opening the door to Sinn Fein, not that I'm knocking them

muffler

I think Donegal SW will remain the same with the exception of the FG candidates.

Donegal NE is something different alright. I would not be surprised if Ciaran Brogan gets the nomination but it would be a nomination from McDaid and the party faithful and not based on his achievements.

He has hardly set the place alight since he took up a seat on the Council

smashey

I think Fine Gael made a mistake in their selection. While not detracting from Senator McHugh, Jimmy Harte would pull in a lot of votes in the Letterkenny electoral area, although I think with Lifford and Raphoe going to Donegal South West, (the Boundaries Commission need to look at the atlas) his overall performance would be affected. If he decides to stand as an independent, I think it would split their vote. Cllr. Brogan seems a good choice for Fianna Fail if selected. I read somewhere that Cllr. Blake is too young, a point I wouldn't agree with. I seem to recall Mary Coughlan being quite young when she was first elected, although her circumstances were different. What if Dessie Larkin was to move to Fianna Fail? He is a strong canditate. I think Cecilia Keaveney will be returned on the strength of the Inishowen vote. Sinn Fein are the dark horses. They will put in a huge effort and could take some of Dr. McDaid's votes. Will they get enough to get a seat? Very tight. In my opinion, Keaveney and Blaney will be returned with Fianna Fail and Sinn Fein battling for the third seat.

With regards to politicians having a limited time on the job, I wouldn't agree with that point of view. After all, it is their chosen career and they should be entitled to stay as long as they want or as long as they are wanted.

donegalman1

I thought Lifford was in East Donegal, I'm certainly not arguing with you but if they are not they'd be as well in Northern Ireland.

Thats Crazy! No wonder the Letterkenny to Dublin Road is so Bad!

With regard to Jimmy Harte... he's still following a legacy where Fine Gael and Paddy Harte played up the Protestant Vote during the troubles and its right that east Donegal look beyond small time sectarianism. He could upset the applecart if he plays the game right.

As for this not being their chosen career.......... they don't need much persuasion and both the expenses and privilages certainly make up for it..

Now imagine a time where politicians had to really earn their jobs, realise that they have a limited time to achieve what needs done and focus on what matters rather than name roads and estates after their retired or deceased comrades....

I contribute to this forum as it is the first opportunity for the north west to actively say what they feel... imagine saying what I just did to a vote getter during the election. I look forward to the day when more get to know about this forum and then we might see a different perspective.... no worries about getting your lane tarred or section 4's.... where democracy forces people to answer questions without knowing whos asking?

When we get the register right, political party representatives shouls be banned from pollling stations too.impersonation agents my a**s... I find it funny to hear of Ireland lecturing about democracy.

Paddy20

Sadly,IMHO your average citizen, will vote for whitchever polical party their parents and grabnparents voted for,irrespective of polical scandals, corruption etc, etc.

Until this Country grows up, and is educated about politics, then we will remain peasants open to exploitation, by those who really know the score.

God help us ?...

P. :cool:

smashey

donegalman1 wrote:

I thought Lifford was in East Donegal, I'm certainly not arguing with you but if they are not they'd be as well in Northern Ireland.

Thats Crazy! No wonder the Letterkenny to Dublin Road is so Bad!

Lifford is in East Donegal, as is Raphoe. However, for the next general election, the people of these areas will be voting in the South West constituency. This is all to do with there being a lot more people in the North East, and the Boundaries Commission in their wisdom decided to even up the numbers.

Damien Blake

donegalman1 wrote:

Does it seem to anybody the race is already on and carved up?

Well, it's definitely on! I wouldn't say "carved up" though. There's going to be a long year between now and hitting the polls.

donegalman1 wrote:

While I think Ciaran Brogan made a good councillor, better than expected infact, it seems to me that its already decided he's the Fianna Fail Candidate.

Ciaran's a very strong performer. Yes, I'm obviously biased, but I've found him to be very good on the council. He know's what he's talking about on most issues, and does work very hard. He also polled a huge result in the 2004 Town Council elections.

donegalman1 wrote:

Now I hope Clr Blake will reply, but not with the party Line..... I'd like to see the like of him even being considered.. why not?

I would like to think I have been considered, but I've also ruled myself out of the race at every stage, in the papers, on the radio and on my own website. I've been approached on a number of occasions by FF members to reconsider my decision, but I definitely don't want to stand for the General Election. I enjoy politics, and I value being able to make a contribution, but I don't want to make the move to politics full time, particularly while still studying.

muffler wrote:

Donegal NE is something different alright. I would not be surprised if Ciaran Brogan gets the nomination but it would be a nomination from McDaid and the party faithful and not based on his achievements.

At the end of the day, it'll be a decision for the FF selection convention (provisionally set for June 11th, but a change is possible).

It should be remembered that, while Ciaran hasn't publicly made any comment on the issue (and, to be honest, I haven't discussed it at any great length with him), he's the only name really being considered because nobody else has thrown their name into the hat. There's nobody really fighting for the nomination.

I have to go now- council business calls, and we're opening the new business park road at 4- but I'll be back to this topic later this afternoon.

Damien Blake

smashey wrote:

I think Fine Gael made a mistake in their selection. While not detracting from Senator McHugh, Jimmy Harte would pull in a lot of votes in the Letterkenny electoral area, although I think with Lifford and Raphoe going to Donegal South West, (the Boundaries Commission need to look at the atlas) his overall performance would be affected. If he decides to stand as an independent, I think it would split their vote.

I think Fine Gael were in a very tough position. While two candidates would definitely help their chances, they needed the right two candidates. Joe and Jimmy, I consider, were too close to run together, both in politics, in profile and in geography. Harte polled well in the local elections, but he will lose out badly with the movement of Raphoe and Lifford to the SW constituency. Joe McHugh has a better profile around the consituency. To make an impact, a new candidate will have to have a strong base and be strong throughout the constituency; being strong in just one area won't be enough.

smashey wrote:

Cllr. Brogan seems a good choice for Fianna Fail if selected. I read somewhere that Cllr. Blake is too young, a point I wouldn't agree with. I seem to recall Mary Coughlan being quite young when she was first elected, although her circumstances were different.

Mary Coughlan was 21 when elected, but as you've said very different circumstances. Bertie Ahern was elected at 23, and Mary Harney was in the senate at 24. I'll be 24, on the way to 25, when the election takes place. My decision wasn't based on age in any way. I appreciate your comments!

smashey wrote:

What if Dessie Larkin was to move to Fianna Fail? He is a strong canditate.

I really can't see that happening.

smashey wrote:

I think Cecilia Keaveney will be returned on the strength of the Inishowen vote. Sinn Fein are the dark horses. They will put in a huge effort and could take some of Dr. McDaid's votes. Will they get enough to get a seat? Very tight. In my opinion, Keaveney and Blaney will be returned with Fianna Fail and Sinn Fein battling for the third seat.

Padraig MacLochlainn will definitely put in a big push, and will poll well throughout the constituency. The election will defintely be very close. Alot depends on whether or not DACC stand a candidate. Again, we're very far away from the election yet.

smashey wrote:

With regards to politicians having a limited time on the job, I wouldn't agree with that point of view. After all, it is their chosen career and they should be entitled to stay as long as they want or as long as they are wanted.

I wouldn't agree with time limits in politics. To get on the council, I had to undertake several thousands "interviews" on doorsteps around Letterkenny, and will have to do the same every five years for as long as I want to stay on the council.

Damien Blake

donegalman1 wrote:

...
As for this not being their chosen career.......... they don't need much persuasion and both the expenses and privilages certainly make up for it..

People get into politics for many different reasons. But one thing I will say- there are very few people in it for the money!

donegalman1 wrote:

Now imagine a time where politicians had to really earn their jobs, realise that they have a limited time to achieve what needs done and focus on what matters rather than name roads and estates after their retired or deceased comrades....

Like I said before, to get elected to the council I had to undergo thousands of interviews on the doorsteps of Letterkenny. It's the same for anyone standing for the Dail, only more pronounced. I canvassed doors for six weeks, with one day off, doing at least four hours a day (up to 9 hours on a Saturday or Sunday).

donegalman1 wrote:

I contribute to this forum as it is the first opportunity for the north west to actively say what they feel... imagine saying what I just did to a vote getter during the election.

Trust me, people said a lot worse to me when I was canvassing. And this was my first time out.

donegalman1 wrote:

I look forward to the day when more get to know about this forum and then we might see a different perspective.... no worries about getting your lane tarred or section 4's.... where democracy forces people to answer questions without knowing whos asking?

When we get the register right, political party representatives shouls be banned from pollling stations too.impersonation agents my a**s... I find it funny to hear of Ireland lecturing about democracy.

Yes, the register is in a shocking state. I won't argue with that. It's also fair to say that the Government response to date has been poor. But banning personation agents doesn't make sense to me- they do nothing to interfere with voters, they don't canvas, don't have any logos or badges, and have proven effective at preventing voter fraud.

Damien Blake

Paddy20 wrote:

Sadly,IMHO your average citizen, will vote for whitchever polical party their parents and grabnparents voted for,irrespective of polical scandals, corruption etc, etc.

Until this Country grows up, and is educated about politics, then we will remain peasants open to exploitation, by those who really know the score.

God help us ?...

P. :cool:

That remains true, but it is changing. Donegal has always been among the most politically conservative parts of the country, but recent results show it's changing. For example, in Letterkenny, we now have councillors from Sinn Fein and the Green Party, which hasn't happened in some time.

An active democracy can only be good for the county, and the country.

muffler

Damien Blake wrote:

People get into politics for many different reasons. But one thing I will say- there are very few people in it for the money!

Ah c'mon now Damien. You may be a young up and coming politician but in the name of Jesus, Mary, Joseph and their wee donkey dont try to cod us. If the politics paid the average industrial wage are you saying that they would still be clambering over themselves to get elected. Im referring to Government as opposed to Council elections.

The exceptions to the money issue is the power freaks.

There would be very few out there that would pursue politics if there were not some form of personal or material gain involved.

Damien Blake

muffler wrote:

Ah c'mon now Damien. You may be a young up and coming politician but in the name of Jesus, Mary, Joseph and their wee donkey dont try to cod us. If the politics paid the average industrial wage are you saying that they would still be clambering over themselves to get elected. Im referring to Government as opposed to Council elections.

The exceptions to the money issue is the power freaks.

There would be very few out there that would pursue politics if there were not some form of personal or material gain involved.

Don't get me wrong. The money can be good at government level, and I would never claim that 90,000+ was a poor wage. What I mean is, the vast, vast majority of people involved with politics do not make a living out of it. I don't.

On Letterkenny Town Council we get about E40 per week as a councillor, plus about 2,000 in December to cover our expenses for the year (phone bill, stationery, postage etc). There is a Mayor's Allowance of 7,500 payable for the year served as Mayor to cover other expenses. Mayoral and Council duties take me about 25 to 30 hours a week, including evenings and weekends. My phone ball has risen by E200 per month since my election, and I spend over E50 per month on Stamps and Stationery. This is before travel- car payments and insurance, petrol etc. I receive no extra expenses, and no payments based on hours worked or meetings attended.

There is expenses paid for travelling to conferences. For example, an overnight trip to Dublin could earn you between E400 and E600 in travelling expenses. I try to avoid these trips wherever possible, as it involves taking time off work that I can ill afford.

Being on the council costs me a fortune, in two ways. Firstly, there's the out of pocket expenses aren't covered, as I've outllined above. Secondly, for the 25 to 30 hours a week that I'm working as a councillor (and earning less than the minimum wage) it means that I can't work in my main job (designing and developing websites) which pays better than minimum wage.

I don't care about the loss of income; I didn't get into politics for the money. But it does annoy me when people act like we're making a fortune. Anybody who would be suited to going around knocking on doors, making themselves available at all hours of the day and night for public service, doesn't do it to earn the meager rewards at council level. That's where most politicians are.

I will accept that Letterkenny Town Council is in a different position to most councils; we get paid the same as councillors in towns with a tenth of the population. County Councillors are better paid, but have much more to do. I have about 25-30hours a week of council work as Mayor, but I'll have at least 15-20 a week when I cease to be Mayor (June 28th) and I'll no longer get the Mayoral Allowance. This is, I'm sure, the same for all the other councillors.

TDs wages are good, but I wouldn't even consider doing it for the money. You have to give over your entire life, 24hours a day, to politics. Most people in politics would be able to earn better livings outside of it.

muffler

Damien, in response to your post I would agree that the vast majority of politicians do not make a living from it and you have very clearly set out why but all that is in relation to councillors and particularly those on the town council. I was referring in most part to the TD's

You are quite right in saying the County councillors are better off. What about Cllr. McGowan last year. Was it something like €50,000 in expenses and that does not include the expenses from all the little committees that he and other cllrs sit on, like the prisoners welfare etc. Not too many members of the public are aware of those matters. Im not having a pop at Cllr McGowan here (good luck to him) but just using him as an example.

Of course there are a lot of people like yourself who actively campaign on behalf of the community and do sterling work but I have to say that there also a lot of people who are in it for the power and the glory. And when you elevate yourself out of local and into national politics then you call that a career and a very well paid one it is too.

Damien, I was actually going to start a new thread with your name as the title but the present one will do for now. I have to say you are a breath of fresh air in local politics. Fair play to you. You have come on here and posted replies to issues that nobody else on Letterkenny Town Council would bother their bollix about.

While Im not from leterkenny its still fantastic to see someone like yourself take the time and bother to reply to queries here and you are not afraid to tell it as it is. Could you not coax a few of your colleagues to join in here also, particularly the members of Donegal County Council.

Keep up the good work and keep the posts coming

Damien Blake

muffler wrote:

...
You are quite right in saying the County councillors are better off. What about Cllr. McGowan last year. Was it something like €50,000 in expenses and that does not include the expenses from all the little committees that he and other cllrs sit on, like the prisoners welfare etc. Not too many members of the public are aware of those matters. Im not having a pop at Cllr McGowan here (good luck to him) but just using him as an example.

There's more on the expenses from the last year here. Yes, they are sizeable amounts, but they are hard earned. I often meet Dessie Larkin at three or four different events in Letterkenny in a given day, where he will have at least the same amount of functions outside the town area. I often put in 12 and 15 hour days of council work, particularly around days with our monthly meetings. This is much worse for the Chairman of the County Council, who must cover from Bundoran to Malin Head.

The way Councillors are paid is absolutely ludicrous. There is a big focus on "expenses", which then create an image of Councillors on the take. Take the conference example I've mentioned above. A weekend in Killarney (for example) could be worth over a thousand euro, yet a 50 or 60 hour week (eg around budget time, or in September after the August break) looking after your constituents, working on local issues, will get you the standard E43.23.

muffler wrote:

Of course there are a lot of people like yourself who actively campaign on behalf of the community and do sterling work but I have to say that there also a lot of people who are in it for the power and the glory. And when you elevate yourself out of local and into national politics then you call that a career and a very well paid one it is too.

Damien, I was actually going to start a new thread with your name as the title but the present one will do for now. I have to say you are a breath of fresh air in local politics. Fair play to you. You have come on here and posted replies to issues that nobody else on Letterkenny Town Council would bother their bollix about.

While Im not from leterkenny its still fantastic to see someone like yourself take the time and bother to reply to queries here and you are not afraid to tell it as it is. Could you not coax a few of your colleagues to join in here also, particularly the members of Donegal County Council.

Keep up the good work and keep the posts coming

I appreciate your comments. I got involved with politics because there where issues locally that annoyed me, particularly around the way the town was developing. Letterkenny is my hometown, and it's the town I plan to spend my days in. I'd rather get involved in politics now, and try to make a difference, than to look back in twenty years and complain about the things other people didn't do.

I don't want to sound like I'm complaining about being a Councillor. I love it; I love being able to have such a say in the development of the town, and I love being able to help people. It has been a good experience. But there are also a number of common myths put out about us (councillors) again and again. At the end of the day, we're just ordinary members of the community who put our names forward for consideration, and sought a mandate.

Civilian_Target

Damien Blake wrote:

Alot depends on whether or not DACC stand a candidate. Again, we're very far away from the election yet.

That's Donegal Against something I take it...

Sinn Fein have a strong support base in Donegal and I'm sure they'll canvass hard for a seat, and may well get it at the expense of either Fianna Fail or IFF...

I must admit, I really don't like the prospect of them winning a seat, and as usual will probably come home for the weekend just to vote for everyone but them, but that won't necessarily change much.

Also - Damien, since you say you design websites, was it you that bought letterkennyonline.com? Way back in 1999, myself and a friend of mine bought and used it but stupidly, the friend had it in his name and for the sake of twenty quid didn't renew it in 2001, which was doubly stupid since it must have been worth a fortune! Needless to say, someone snapped it up fast, no idea who though.

Damien Blake

Civilian_Target wrote:

That's Donegal Against something I take it...

That'd be Donegal Action (on/for) Cancer Care

Civilian_Target wrote:

Sinn Fein have a strong support base in Donegal and I'm sure they'll canvass hard for a seat, and may well get it at the expense of either Fianna Fail or IFF...

I must admit, I really don't like the prospect of them winning a seat, and as usual will probably come home for the weekend just to vote for everyone but them, but that won't necessarily change much.

SF polled well in each electoral area in DNE during the local elections (Milford, Inishowen, Letterkenny) and definitely have the potential to take a seat, if they can deliver the vote and gain enough cross-party support through transfers. That remains to be seen. Tony McDaid did very well on transfers in Letterkenny, but SF have traditionally been poor on transfers.

Civilian_Target wrote:

Also - Damien, since you say you design websites, was it you that bought letterkennyonline.com? Way back in 1999, myself and a friend of mine bought and used it but stupidly, the friend had it in his name and for the sake of twenty quid didn't renew it in 2001, which was doubly stupid since it must have been worth a fortune! Needless to say, someone snapped it up fast, no idea who though.

I'm not connected with that, but I've sent you a PM about it.

retalivity

Sinn Fein have a strong support base in Donegal and I'm sure they'll canvass hard for a seat, and may well get it at the expense of either Fianna Fail or IFF...

That thought really scares me, especially seeing first hand the fervent support enjoyed by them in DSW.

Still, i'm sticking by my decision i made years ago when i first became eligible to vote, not to align myself to any particular party. I've a real distrust in any person that has to tow to a party line on some level in dublin.

donegalman1

Sinn Fein should rightly do well here........................ sure don't half their supporters own most of the homes in Fanad, Gweedore and the like.... Certainly it isn't locals that do.

Will it soon become the national trend.... Irish all emigrate again while absentee landlords own the country... though this time can't blame the english..... not even Fine Gael

Congratulations Fianna Fail... whats it they say about swings and roundabouts. You party and their pitchforked employees raped the country again.

Oh aye and those who compared the poor conditions local politicians circumstances to national....How ta hell was Ciaran so lucky to get planning for a pub in Ballymacool when evenPJ couldn't? Noel built a monster, Local politics pays dividents........you just need to look at the right balance sheet.

Paddy20

Now, I was just wondering who was it who stated..." Poliitics is the last refuge of a scoundrel " ?....;)

P. :cool:

Damien Blake

donegalman1 wrote:

Oh aye and those who compared the poor conditions local politicians circumstances to national....How ta hell was Ciaran so lucky to get planning for a pub in Ballymacool when evenPJ couldn't? Noel built a monster, Local politics pays dividents........you just need to look at the right balance sheet.

Three points that I think are relevant to that comment, based on the best information I have to hand:

1: It was PJ McDermott who got the planning for the pub there, long before the Brogans bought it

2: Ciaran Brogan was looking for planning for a pub in the Mountain Top/Ballaghderg area, but it was rejected

3: There wasn't one single objection to the planning application for Noel McGinley's development.

I don't want to seem like an apologist for councillors, and I do believe that Noel's building is far too big for where it is, but I don't want to leave the impression that what was said above was accurate.

Feel free to criticise or attack any councillor, but have your facts right before you do.

Paddy20

Damien,

While I am not and never have been a member of any political party/organisation.

I have to admit it is very refreshing and encouraging to see someone such as you, openly entering dialogue on a public forum such as this.

It might encourage other political representative's to adopt a similar attitude, by communicating openly in their own name on forum's like this !.

Here in the Twin-Towns the general population are extremely cynical about all political partie's, including Sinn Fein.

As long as I can remember, Fianna Fail & Fine Gael have had safe seats in the Finn Valley, perhaps if Councillor's P McGowan F.F, Alice Bonner F.F. and J.J Reid F.G. behaved as openly as you, it would help us all.

Good luck to you. I wish you well and encourage you to continue your trailblazing approach.

P. :cool:

muffler

Wheeeeeouw, muffler breathes a sigh of relief. When I saw Paddy posting on this thread I thought to my self -Oh no.

But in fairness Paddy that is one of your more favourable posts and I agree fully with what you say.

I did suggest to Damien earlier that he should encourage more of his Council colleagues to join in here.

Damien Blake

Paddy20 wrote:

Damien,

While I am not and never have been a member of any political party/organisation.

I have to admit it is very refreshing and encouraging to see someone such as you, openly entering dialogue on a public forum such as this.

It might encourage other political representative's to adopt a similar attitude, by communicating openly in their own name on forum's like this !.

Here in the Twin-Towns the general population are extremely cynical about all political partie's, including Sinn Fein.

As long as I can remember, Fianna Fail & Fine Gael have had safe seats in the Finn Valley, perhaps if Councillor's P McGowan F.F, Alice Bonner F.F. and J.J Reid F.G. behaved as openly as you, it would help us all.

Good luck to you. I wish you well and encourage you to continue your trailblazing approach.

P. :cool:

Paddy,

I appreciate your comments, particularly as I've seen your opinions on the council/councillor here in my short time on the board!

I got involved with politics because I didn't like the way (I thought) things were done. With a bit of experience, you see that some things are as bad as I thought, and some things are worse. For example, councillors have a much smaller influence on the planning process than I had thought.

At the end of the day, local councillors are just ordinary members of their communities who have gone to the effort of knocking on a few thousand doors and asking for people's support to try to make a difference in their area. Some may be in it for different reasons, but most of us are trying to do our best.

I suppose I can be available on this board, and on my own website, because I work online, and spend most of my day attached to a broadband connection.

It works both ways; this NW board is very Donegal-focussed, in particular Letterkenny. I'll probably have two motions at the next council meeting based on discussions on this board. There's a very good level of debate going on here, I'm just glad I can (sometimes) contribute something.

muffler

Damien Blake wrote:

I'll probably have two motions at the next council meeting based on discussions on this board.

One motion will be to request the Town Council to subsidise our beers night and the other will be ?????

Paddy20

muffler wrote:

One motion will be to request the Town Council to subsidise our beers night and the other will be ?????

All elected Co' Councillors and TD's should have their own personal website's.

Many have campaigned for broadband to be available to all. I fully support this objective, particularly as it would help the public communicate officially with all politician's of all persuasion's.

However, we are still waiting in Donegal for this to become a reality. That is why I was the first in the Twin-Towns to have broadband, thanks mainly to U.TV Clicksilver, and the campaigning of the IrelandOffline, voluntary pressure group forum on Board's.ie.


Residents in the Twin-Towns who live only a short distance from me, are constantly informed that they are too far away from the local Twin-Towns exchange ?... yet members of my own family who have worked for Eircom and before that the publicly owned Telecom Eireann believe Eircom's attitude is pure monopolistic protectionism stalling tactic's, as you will see by visiting:- www.irelandoffline.org/

Best wishe's.

Paddy. :cool:

N.B. I have always been fascinated about how quickly Pat(the cope's) home area got broadband when he was involved for only a short while in the Telecommunications Dept as a Junior Minister, and now he even has his own 'Personal website' That makes 'only' 2 politicians that I am aware of with personal websites, would you agree that we need more ?...