Where and what electric bike to get?

ruprect

Where would you get a decent electric bike in dublin, or ordered off the internet?
I just want it for commuting, should be as fast as possible and look reasonable ok. Price isnt too much of an issue, I would spend up to €2000 if I thought it was worth it.

Itsfixed

No offence, but I can't think why it would make any sense to get an electric bike. The whole beauty of the humble bike, for me, is that they're human powered and 100pc efficient. It keeps you fit, and they're cheap.

Electric bikes are apparently monsterously heavy when you're not using the electric motor (although I've never actually ridden one), very expensive and presumably would cost more to maintain. What happens if you want to carry it up stairs or transport it in a car? No way.

Why not just get a 50cc moped? Mind you I hate mopeds even more....;) You'd have to pay tax and insurance, but you can get a decent one for a lot less than 2k.

robfitz

There is a place which sales electric bicycles on Terenure Road East, Terenure.

Please note an electric bicycle is not a pedal cycle and as such can not use cycle tracks with solid white lines, off roadway cycle tracks and cycleways.

ciaranr

I live on a long hill west of Galway city and every evening I see two middle ages ladies (at different times) zooming up the hill (not very steep but usually you also have wind in your face:( ) all happy out. They absolutlely fly by, no sweat.

So go for the electric as long as you don't need to haul it up a stairs!

By the way, there are also pedals on these bikes and it looks like a generator/dynamo on the front hub? Anyone know if these charge themselves goin down hill or is drive through the front...

Itsfixed

robfitz wrote:

There is a place which sales electric bicycles on Terenure Road East, Terenure.

Please note an electric bicycle is not a pedal cycle and as such can not use cycle tracks with solid white lines, off roadway cycle tracks and cycleways.

yeah, well try telling that to the growing number of moped riders who regularly block my path or hold me up by using cycle lanes.:mad:

robfitz

robfitz wrote:

There is a place which sales electric bicycles on Terenure Road East, Terenure.

The place is called Green Machines.

Itsfixed wrote:

yeah, well try telling that to the growing number of moped riders who regularly block my path or hold me up by using cycle lanes.:mad:

They can use them as long as it's a broken white line.

liamo333

Do you need a licence for those electric cars? Mabey ill get one for going to school.

ruprect

Itsfixed wrote:

No offence, but I can't think why it would make any sense to get an electric bike. The whole beauty of the humble bike, for me, is that they're human powered and 100pc efficient. It keeps you fit, and they're cheap.

No offence taken. I want it for going to work. I am sick of arriving all sweaty. I would turn off the power on the way home and cycle under my own steam. I would also use it for longer cycles, i.e. I do cycle to keep fit, it would be nice to be able to go much further than my usual 20mile runs.

Itsfixed wrote:

Electric bikes are apparently monsterously heavy when you're not using the electric motor (although I've never actually ridden one), very expensive and presumably would cost more to maintain.

Some are surprisingly light.

Here is one
http://www.ec-bikes.co.uk/
he sells on ebay for £300, post is £80 to ireland.

I might go for a giant though, they get the best reviews.
http://www.f2motorcycles.ltd.uk/giantlafree.html

http://www.electric-bikes.com/bikes.htm
http://www.cicle.org/cicle_content/pivot/entry.php?id=644

electricbike.ie

I realise this post is nearly a year old, but for anyone new visiting this, I just want to point out all the inaccurate information here. I work for www.electricbikes.ie as you may guess from the user name, so I know a lot about electric bikes.
First of all, under European law, electric bikes are considered bicycles, nothing more. This means you don't need insurance, road tax, a licence and you CAN cycle in cycle lanes. All our bikes weigh at most 22.5kgs meaning they are easily light enough to cycle under your own power. If your lifting them up stairs, remove the battery to make them 4 kgs lighter if needs be. The only maintenance you need is a replacement battery a few years down the line and regular bike maintenance (brakes, wear and tear etc.). The motor itself is completely zero maintenance that doesn't need oiling or replacement parts. Running costs are insignificant, someone travelling 100 kms a week over a whole year will use about 14 Euros worth of electricity as it costs about 8 cent to charge the battery which gets you an average of 30kms. They cost well under 2000 Euro even with all optional extras (most expensive 1369 Euro).
These bikes are great for commuters who are sick of traffic but can't afford to arrive to work sweaty, people with a physical impairment who can't cycle normal bikes, older people who want to be more active, folding models are great for people with boats and caravans to get to local shops etc. (and can be put in car boots), environmentally conscious travellers, people who don't have a licence for whatever reason and people who want to rebuild their fitness by using it in manual mode when they want exercise and electric mode when they become tired.
The technology is constantly becoming more advanced and electric bikes have become a very real transport option for many people and will contribute to reducing congestion and pollution in this country. I apologise for the long post but as demonstrated from this thread, people need to be educated about the virtues of electric bikes. They bridge the gap between motorbikes and bicycles and our cities would be better off, the more people that use them. Anyone interested in electric bikes should visit our website at WWW.ELECTRICBIKES.IE for more information, we are happy to answer any questions anyone might have

ruprect

electricbike.ie wrote:

First of all, under European law, electric bikes are considered bicycles, nothing more.

Some bikes on sale on other sites fall outside the limits posted on your site, so not all could be used legally here.

From your site

Q. Do I need a driving license, insurance or road tax?

A. No, you don’t. According to Irish and European law, electric bikes that use the pedal assist method are classified as bicycles, not mechanically propelled vehicles

But from http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA24Y1961.html it says

mechanically propelled vehicle" means, subject to subsection (2) of this section, a vehicle intended or adapted for propulsion by mechanical means, including—
( a ) a bicycle or tricycle with an attachment for propelling it by mechanical power, whether or not the attachment is being used,
( b ) a vehicle the means of propulsion of which is electrical or partly electrical and partly mechanical,
but not including a tramcar or other vehicle running on permanent rails;

electricbike.ie wrote:

you CAN cycle in cycle lanes.

Have you any links about this? There is no such thing as a cycle lane in Irish law, only cycletracks & cycleways.

From here http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZSI274Y1998.html

(5) (a) A mechanically propelled vehicle, other than a mechanically propelled wheelchair, shall not be driven along or across a cycle track on the right hand edge of which traffic sign number RRM 022 has been provided, save for the purpose of access to or egress from a place adjacent to the cycle track or from a roadway to such a place.

I doubt you would be stopped though, most gardai are hopelessly ignorant about traffic laws.

Victor

electricbike.ie wrote:

First of all, under European law, electric bikes are considered bicycles, nothing more.

And under Irish law?

Talking to a guy from Eco Cabs (electric tricycles / rickshaws), they do need licences and insurance.

He went all quite when I asked was he allowed park on the footpath.

Trampas

electricbike.ie wrote:

All our bikes weigh at most 22.5kgs meaning they are easily light enough to cycle under your own power. If your lifting them up stairs, remove the battery to make them 4 kgs lighter if needs be.

So you remove the battery to make the bike 4 kilos lighter to carry up stairs so then you have to go back down the stairs to bike up the battery :rolleyes:

ruprect

Victor wrote:

Talking to a guy from Eco Cabs (electric tricycles / rickshaws), they do need licences and insurance.

The eco cabs are 140kg and on the www.electricbikes.ie site it says.

Q. What are the main legal requirements in the EU regarding electrically assisted pedal bikes?

A. Within the EU the following points are the main legal requirements of an electrically assisted bicycle:
• The bike (including the battery) must not weigh more than 40KG in total (the heaviest Urban Mover is 23Kg)
• The motor must not have a continuous motor rating of more than 250W (200W in the UK) output
• Power assisted speed must not exceed 25Kmph (15mph)
• The motor must stop when you stop pedalling
• The bike must have fully functioning pedals
• Riders must be 14 years old or more to ride the bike legally on the road

But I would also like to see the Irish law, and the "minor" legal requirements. There is not just one EU law relating to bikes, some have varying laws about lights etc. I have seen that quote above on UK sites, you can tell since it mentions UK, confirming laws may vary. Also it is certainly not a cut & past from a legal document.


Another search found this. http://www.gov.ie/debates-03/2Dec/Sect8.htm

161. Mr. Eamon Ryan asked the Minister for Finance the regulations governing the designation of electric bicycles with regard to tax and insurance; and the criteria used in the decision regarding whether an electric bicycle is subject to duty or requires insurance cover for its use. [29079/03]

Minister for Finance (Mr. McCreevy): The Road Traffic Act 1961 includes in the definition of a "mechanically propelled vehicle" both "a bicycle ... with an attachment for propelling it by mechanical power" and "a vehicle the means of propulsion of which is electrical or partly electrical and partly mechanical". A mechanically propelled vehicle is required to comply with the various provisions of the Act which, among other things, require the user to have third party insurance in a public place. The vehicle also has to comply with the provisions of the Road Traffic (Construction, Equipment and Use of Vehicles) Regulations and the Road Traffic (Lighting of Vehicles) Regulations. Electric bicycles are also subject to motor tax.

As regards vehicle registration tax, VRT, section 130 of the Finance Act 1992 defines a "mechanically propelled vehicle" as:

a vehicle intended or adapted for propulsion by a mechanical means, including

(a) a bicycle, tricycle or quadricycle propelled by an engine or motor or with an attachment for propelling it by mechanical power, whether or not the attachment is being used, a moped, a scooter and an autocycle, and

(b) a vehicle the means of propulsion of which is electrical or partly electrical and partly mechanical

The effect of this section is that electric bicycles are liable to VRT and, as such, must be presented at a Vehicle Registration Office for registration. The VRT rates of duty which are payable on the registration of such vehicles are: €2 per cubic centimetre where the cubic capacity of an engine does not exceed 350 cc; €1 per cubic centimetre in respect of each additional cubic centimetre in excess of 350 cc.

Electric engines are measured in watts and 50 watts of electric power equate to approximately 1 cc. Such modes of transport attract a VAT charge at the rate of 21%. The amount on which VAT is chargeable is the total consideration, including all taxes, commissions, costs and charges which the person supplying the goods becomes entitled to receive. The rate of customs duty applicable to electric bicycles is 6%.

Electrically assisted cycles, known as "pedelecs", which have electric motors that only assist the pedalling effort and which do not act as a means of propulsion in their own right, are not considered to be mechanically propelled vehicles and therefore they are not subject to insurance or motor tax.

blorg

ruprect wrote:

Electrically assisted cycles, known as "pedelecs", which have electric motors that only assist the pedalling effort and which do not act as a means of propulsion in their own right, are not considered to be mechanically propelled vehicles and therefore they are not subject to insurance or motor tax.

I think this is the key exception.

rubadub

blorg wrote:

I think this is the key exception.

Yes but reading it I thought that this description was only in the definition according to VRT, and that it still is a MPV according to Road Traffic Act 1961.

Mr. electricbike.ie hasn't been back yet...

electricbike.ie

First off, apologies for not posting replies for so long. I only came across this board by accident originally and haven't been back until now. Let me just clarify, even though we use the term 'electric bike' for our products, they are in fact 'pedelecs', electric bike is just easier for people to recognise, remember etc. If a motor ONLY assists you when you cycle and does not propel you by itself, it is NOT considered an MPV. This is outlined in an email posted below from the Vehicle Standards Division. If a bike has 3 modes: manual, pedal assist and throttle power, it IS an MPV and requires all the legal requirements, eg: insurance, license, etc, even though the retailers tell you they don't. This is clearly outlined in the e mail below. So, throttle = MPV, Pedal Assist only= not MPV. I hope this clarifies a few issues. Any specific questions, we would be happy to answer via e mail. Unfortunately I can't keep track of message boards all the time.

---

Original Message

---

From: "Vehicle Standards Division" <VehicleStandardsDivision@transport.ie>
To: <info@electricbikes.ie>
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 4:51 PM
Subject: Electrically assisted pedal cycles


Dear Ronan,

I refer to your telephone query on electrically assisted pedal cycles.

The Road Traffic Act, 1961 defines a mechanically propelled vehicle (mpv)
as:-

"a vehicle intended or adapted for propulsion by mechanical
means, including-
( a ) a bicycle or tricycle with an
attachment for propelling it by mechanical power, whether or not the
attachment is being used,
( b ) a vehicle the means of propulsion of
which is electrical or partly electrical and partly mechanical,
but not including a tramcar or other vehicle running on
permanent rails;"

All mpvs must comply with Road Traffic law relating to the construction,
equipment and use of vehicles i.e. they must meet all requirements covering
such items as brakes, lights, dimensions, weight, springs, wheels, tyres,
steering, gears, mudguards, view of the road, mirrors, safety glass,
windscreen wipers, mirrors, speedometers, horn, silencer, exhausts
emissions, condition and maintenance etc. In addition, a mechanically
propelled vehicle may not be used in any public place unless there is in
place third party insurance cover against its negligent use. A mechanically
propelled vehicle is also required to be registered, is subject to motor tax
and its driver will require a driving licence.

Electrically assisted cycles, known as "pedelecs", which have electric
motors which only assist the pedalling effort and which do not act as a
means of propulsion in their own right, are not considered to be
mechanically propelled vehicles.

I am obliged to point out that enforcement of the Regulations is a matter
for An Garda Síochána while interpretation of them is a matter for the
Courts.

I hope this information is helpful.

Yours sincerely,

Johanna O'Sullivan
Vehicle Standards Division.

Lumen

Those bikes look OK for old/disabled people, but the legal restriction of 15mph is a major limitation since the same speed can be achieved by a fit person without excessive sweating.

I'm also not convinced about rear hub drive, since it's wheel-speed limited. The Panasonic drive system seems much more logical (and gets good reviews).

The Kalkhoff Pro Connect seems to be the current daddy of electric assist bikes.

goonmaster

citizensinformation.ie says all electric vehicles are exempt from VRT

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/moving-country/moving-to-ireland/coming-to-live-in-ireland/importing_car_into_ireland#rates

Bloch

65 million Chinese can't be wrong.

But I heard that the Chinese-made electric bicycles are designed for people of average weight i.e. average Chinese weight.

I was considering getting one until I heard of the speed limit.

BostonB

Trampas wrote: »

So you remove the battery to make the bike 4 kilos lighter to carry up stairs so then you have to go back down the stairs to bike up the battery :rolleyes:

I don't get this comment. So what? Is there a rule that says you can only do it one go? I always bring the shopping in a few bags at a time.

I see a few people on electric bikes, seem quite good if you ask me. Though most here seem to very poor bikes once the battery is gone. I was thinking more along the lines of one of these for a while http://no-hills.com/bike_range.htm Mainly because I was having problems with my knees. I didn't buy one because they were so expensive, and I've no cycle to work scheme at work yet. (taking forever). But I've since found if I concentrate on cycling slower (which seems so doh) I actually don't have the problem and I arrive far less sweaty. I've panniers and no bag on my back. So my plan now is to cycle more often, just slower, and try and lighten what I carry. Including myself.