dairy free

marvin2k

I have been considering stopping the use of dairy products due to the advice of a friend who tells me she feels much better since reducing her intake of dairy . She told me that she feels much lighter and healthier and that it isnt necessary for people to take dairy produce as there are plenty of alternatives . I am very aware of how much over the top and extreme attitudes there are to healthy eating and so I was wondering is milk/ cheese really that bad , does it do a body good . I suppose the best way to find out would be to go on this diet for a month or so and see how i feel but i have just purchased a catron of soya milk and it tastes like absolute ****e ,if anyone has any insights it would be great .

quickbeam

I think you could easily get used to the taste of Soya Milk. Like a lot of people who go from Full Fat to Low Fat or Skimmed milk don't like it at first but then get so used to it they can't go back to the original.

IMO, dairy in itself it's bad for you, but all in moderation. Some of it can be high in cholesterol, so try healthier alternatives - low fat cheeses, cut back on the butter, etc.

No harm to cut dairy out for a month or so and see if you do feel any better for it though. There's nothing essential in dairy that you can't get elsewhere.

Nature Boy

A lot of modern research has shown diary to be bad for you. It is after all designed for an animal that has effectively 4 stomachs to digest it and grows much more rapidly and grows much heavier than we do. And of course it's for infants!

I've cut out a lot of dairy from my diet and i've had no problems (But then I never did consume a lot in the first place anyway). I much prefer Soya milk. I reccomend the 'Pure' vegan butter you get in most supermarkets, it's cheap and nice and can be used in everything (Baking, frying, spreading etc). I haven't been able to find a dairy free cheese that i've been mad about yet (The slices and cream cheeses are nice though). Sweedish Glace is the nicest vegan ice cream. The alpro soya yogourts taste the same as dairy yogourts.

Hope that helps! Give it a try, get your calcium/vitimins from other sources and see how it goes!

Mentalmiss

marvin2k wrote:

so I was wondering is milk/ cheese really that bad .

The answer to that is yes and I will google and post the reasons why.
I do not use soy milk but make my own milk from what ever I feel like. My favourite is almond.
I soak some almonds overnight and put them in the blender with some water (not the soak water) and a few dates to sweeten. I strain it to get the milk. You can make it as sweet (or not) as you like and as watery as you like. You can even make cream by using less water.
I then use the pulp for other things as I do not like to waste food.
You can experiment with different nuts and seeds to find the one that you like best.

Mentalmiss

I could not post the entire article because it is too long so I have posted a link at the bottom as well as other links particularly to "The China Study" a book that I feel everybody should read.

"GOT MILK?" (If You Do, You've Also Got Greatly Increased Risks of Cancer, Osteoporosis, and Heart Disease...)
By Stewart N. Thorpe of Citizen Press Revolution

SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING: Stop consuming dairy products now greatly reduces the risk of ovarian, breast, colon, and gastrointestinal cancers, osteoporosis, calcium deficiency, diabetes mellitus in children, heart disease, and atherosclerosis. Common delayed allergic reactions to dairy products include abdominal pain, eczema (skin rash), joint pain, gas, bloating, migraine headache, asthma, acne, fatigue, runny nose, diabetes, and immune dysfunction. Because people's allergic reactions to dairy products are delayed in the onset, you may be allergic without being aware of it.


A Surgeon General Warning for milk? You laugh, you roll your eyes, you look at these printed words as if I am completely gone raving mad.

I have the backing of respected and established medical and scientific institutions to support these claims. I have a study, for instance, that was pooled analysis of over a half million women. I can beat even that though with the support of the largest study of diet and disease in medical history.

So how come you didn’t know about the adverse affects of milk and how it can actually give you weak bones rather than strong ones?

One answer could be $110 million dollars. Another answer, also right, is $190 million dollars. This is how much the dairy industry spent in 1996 and 1998 respectively to keep milk hip, to push the message of strong bones and osteoporosis prevention inside almost every popular magazine, in as many strategically placed television commercials, into the posters of celebrities with milk mustaches hanging inside classrooms or on your own room’s walls. Never mind the truth. Never mind the increased risks in heart disease, diabetes, four kinds of cancer, or the increased risks that milk is supposed to prevent: calcium deficiency and osteoporosis. Milk does your body good. Never mind the truth.

Thanks also to spending millions of visible dollars to politicians each year and having the backing of a government agency (I’ll get to this in a second), the dairy industry has been able to deliberately and intentionally drown out medical and health findings that run contrary to the message of its advertising campaigns for strong bones.


A few of these studies I am referring to are by established, professional, and respected institutions such as (to name a few): the China-Oxford Cornell Study from the Cornell University (the largest study of diet and disease in medical history), the International Journal of Health Services, the Harvard School of Public Health, and the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine. In fact, in February 1995, the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine lodged a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission, stating that ads for milk and milk products are deceptive

http://www.vegparadise.com/vegreading74.html

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1932100660/002-6375200-7221636?v=glance&n=283155

http://www.progressiveu.org/160000-got-milk-if-you-do-youve-also-got-greatly-increased-risks-of-cancer-osteoporosis-and-heart-disease

http://www.ecopolitan.com/newsletter-articles/strong-bones

http://digg.com/science/Milk_is_actually_bad_for_you_Unclie_Sam_s_a_milk_pimp_Say_it_ain_t_so_

http://www.nowtoronto.com/issues/2006-02-16/goods_health.php

http://www.healthy.net/asp/templates/Article.asp?PageType=Article&Id=617


www.notmilk.com

Shabadu

MentalMiss- I suggest you read the following article: http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/China-Study.html

OP- Dairy produce can and does affect people in adverse ways. While true Lactose Intolerance is rare, many people find it beneficial to cut out or cut down on dairy, particulary cows milk. Try avoiding it for a month and see if you're feeling better. Goat's milk is normally easier for people to digest, and it's quite nice, especially in cheese. Remember to keep up your intake of B12 and calcium if you're cutting it out, and try not to eat too much soy, as it can cause health problems if eaten to excess.

Mentalmiss

Shabadu wrote:

MentalMiss- I suggest you read the following article: http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/China-Study.html
QUOTE]
I have read it but it does nothing to change my position. I have primarly reached this position as a result of the studies of many many people and not just T. Colin Campbell.
My position is that we should be eating a diet similar to that of our nearest relatives in the animal kingdom.
Milk should come from our mother and only in the early years of our lives.
Our diet should be vegan and 40% of it should be greens.
Our food should all be consumed raw.
I think that this is the ideal and I hope that some day I will achieve it. I am not too far from it now.

Shabadu

Mentalmiss wrote:

Shabadu wrote:

MentalMiss- I suggest you read the following article: http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/China-Study.html

I have read it but it does nothing to change my position. I have primarly reached this position as a result of the studies of many many people and not just T. Colin Campbell.
My position is that we should be eating a diet similar to that of our nearest relatives in the animal kingdom.
Milk should come from our mother and only in the early years of our lives.
Our diet should be vegan and 40% of it should be greens.
Our food should all be consumed raw.
I think that this is the ideal and I hope that some day I will achieve it. I am not too far from it now.

I'm glad you've found a system that works for you. I agree with it on several points, and disagree with others. However, this is not the thread to discuss it.

Nature Boy

Shabadu wrote:

try not to eat too much soy, as it can cause health problems if eaten to excess.

I haven't heard of soya causing health problems. Could you elaborate? What health problems do they cause?

seamus

While lactose intolerance* is generally rare (and those who do have it can grow out of it, like me), any animal milk is not designed for consumption by adults of that species.
Lactose is broken down by the enzyme lactase in the intestinal tract into galactose and various glucose monomer sugars. Lactase is only produced during a human's early years and by the teenage years most humans no longer produce lactase.
The result is that lactose is no longer processed and broken down in the intestinal tract. I'm not sure what effect this has, and whether it contributes to bloatedness, water retention, discomfort, etc, but certainly removing lactose from the diet wouldn't be a bad thing.
It is certainly a major contributing factor in the smell of your farts, so if you have a tendency for smelly ones and you love your milk, know you see the link

To pull it off-topic a bit, the best way to determine what we *should* eat is to look at dental makeup. We are omnivores. Our dental makeup doesn't follow that we should only eat raw, green vegetables. And our overall biological makeup actually points to the complete opposite of eating food raw. In evolutionary terms, we should primarily eat small mammals, birds and fish for protein (i.e. little or no red meat), a large amount of green vegetables, and most food should be cooked.

We know why we should cook meat, but the basis behind cooking vegetables is that cellulose, the primary component of plant cell walls, cannot be effectively broken down by the human digestive tract. Cooking plants causes the cells to rupture, and consequently the plant becomes manageable by your digestive system.
Cold or uncooked plant matter (if you enjoy it in large amouns) can serve to aggravate or accelerate the onset of digestive problems such as IBS.

*Defining Lactose intolerance depends on who you talk to. Some people consider it to be the inability to process lactose - which would be almost everyone - and others consider it to be a reaction to the presence of lactose.

Shabadu

Nature Boy wrote:

I haven't heard of soya causing health problems. Could you elaborate? What health problems do they cause?

Here is a good concise page with some helpful links. Don't get me wrong, I still use soy products, but I'd limit intake to about 3 times a week, especially as there's a very strong history of breast cancer in my family.

Also, wow, we are all so completely off topic, but what the hey. I'll split the thread if the OP wants, but if everyone's ok with it I might just leave it for now for the sake of conversation.

Nature Boy

I don't think we're off topic, soya is an alternative to dairy.

Shabadu wrote:

Here is a good concise page with some helpful links

Interesting, It's hard to know what's ok to eat these days.

Anybody every try rice milk?

Tar.Aldarion

*eyes up posts, peruses Seamus', decides against my obsessive nature to bring this into an off topic debate*


OP, everything in moderation. In the case of dairy, the less the better.
Apart from it being linked to cancer a lot, an example in the news, I think it was a while back, maybe two years, that nurses in the UK called for an educational campaign outlining the health risks of dairy foods. Prostate cancer, breast cancer, blah blah, the usual.

Try alternatives, there are loads, I'm sure you will be fine if you eat a little etc. I try to eat as little as possible and reduce it.
Dairy affects a lot of people badly and some don't know it for years.
If you can't handle quitting straight away, try some of teh 'more healthy' ones etc.
Rice milk was nice I thought, soya was not to my tastes at all.

Peanut

Mentalmiss wrote:

...
Our diet should be vegan and 40% of it should be greens.
Our food should all be consumed raw.

er at the risk of straying further off-topic.. some food, especially beans (kidney), is not edible unless cooked to some extent to neutralise toxic components present.

So it's not necessarily true in all circumstances that cooking/heating food leads to a less nutritionally benefically outcome, also it would lead to a rather boring selection of eating options, subjectively speaking (although the same argument is used in favour of using meat)..

Nature Boy

I tried rice milk this morning. Not bad, I think I prefer it to soya milk. It has the same amount of calcium as soya too! (The Alpro brands at least)

Oobie

I use soya milk with muesli but I never seem to finish a carton within 5 days. Is there anywhere you can get half litres? I've tried rice milk too but I prefer soya.

Nature Boy

According to alpro's website (http://www.alprosoya.co.uk/) they do a 250ml and 500ml carton. I've never seen them though, apart from the small cartons with the straws and the flavoured 500ml drinks.

brianthebard

Peanut wrote:

er at the risk of straying further off-topic.. some food, especially beans (kidney), is not edible unless cooked to some extent to neutralise toxic components present.

So it's not necessarily true in all circumstances that cooking/heating food leads to a less nutritionally benefically outcome, also it would lead to a rather boring selection of eating options, subjectively speaking (although the same argument is used in favour of using meat)..

I'd just like to add that new studies have shown that only eating raw food, or mainly raw food, results in lower bone density than those who cook their veg.

I would be sceptical about those soya reports, although I haven't time to properly research it at the minute.
Soya is an integral part of everyday life in asia, they even have soya fizzy drinks and they have a much lower rate of breast cancer than us.

I would naturally go through periods where I might unintentionally avoid dairy products and i find that neither has any effect at all on my sense of general well-being.I prefer soya milk to cows because it isn't as sweet, actually my whole family does now, but I find the alpro soya youghurts very sweet and artifical tasting.Soya ice-cream is great, soya deserts are god-awful.I don't like rice milk.I do think sheeps cheese is easier on the stomach though, but that could be because I buy the very low fat version.
My mother has psoraisis though and that is greatly exacerbated when she consumes milk

sweet-rasmus

hey, i'd heard about that whole diary being bad for you recently too. i hear that doctors dont usually go against it because they get mucho funding to endorse it. plus, the irish dairy council could have have influences..... the doc wouldnt want to lose his/her job.... so complicated.

jman0

Shabadu wrote:

MentalMiss- I suggest you read the following article: http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/China-Study.html

I just read some of that, it sounds like absolute tripe.
Love this bit:
"Fast forward to the present. Campbell is now on the advisory board of the Physician’s Committee for Responsible Medicine,2 which describes itself as “a nonprofit organization that promotes preventive medicine, conducts clinical research, and encourages higher standards for ethics and effectiveness in research,”3 but whose pro-vegan agenda reflects its ties to People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) and other animal rights groups, including, according to Newsweek, Stop Hunting and Animal Cruelty, which the Department of Justice calls a “domestic terrorist threat.”

Note: they're not saying Campbell is a member of PETA and other animal rights groups (who are terrorists apparently) just that his views are similar, therefore....guilty by association?

Personally i am mostly dairy free.
However i do realize that there is a lack of peer reviewed scientific research to back up the anti-milk propaganda.
I think the dairy industry churns out loads of it's own propaganda, and so does the soya industry.

Mentalmiss

Peanut wrote:

er at the risk of straying further off-topic.. some food, especially beans (kidney), is not edible unless cooked to some extent to neutralise toxic components present.

So it's not necessarily true in all circumstances that cooking/heating food leads to a less nutritionally benefically outcome, also it would lead to a rather boring selection of eating options, subjectively speaking (although the same argument is used in favour of using meat)..

Why would you think that you should eat a food that is toxic if not cooked. Surely this fact alone should tell you that it was not meant for human consumption.
We were eating long before we discovered fire and those are the circumstances under which our digestive systems evolved. I like to stick with what is natural. Why would I want to eat kidney beans. My recollection is that they do not even taste nice.

Mentalmiss

brianthebard wrote:

I'd just like to add that new studies have shown that only eating raw food, or mainly raw food, results in lower bone density than those who cook their veg.

I belive that it showed that the bones were smaller but showed the same level of regeneration and did not leed to weakness or fracture

Peanut

Mentalmiss wrote:

Why would you think that you should eat a food that is toxic if not cooked. Surely this fact alone should tell you that it was not meant for human consumption.

Not really, it just means that it was not palatable in its raw state.
We define what is 'meant' or not meant, it's not something written down in stone over the ages that humans had to stick by.

Do you eat olives, or drink coffee, tea or alcohol? Because all of these require 'processing' from their natural state to make the end product - it doesn't mean it's bad, and it doesn't mean it's 'not natural' either.

Mentalmiss wrote:

We were eating long before we discovered fire and those are the circumstances under which our digestive systems evolved. I like to stick with what is natural.

Yes, and if you go back far enough, you can claim that we should only eat plankton or whatever...
The point is that we are not restricted to what may or may not have been the case in the past, and while I agree that there is far too much processed food these days, it doesn't follow that we should abandon it all just because there is this perception that it's more 'natural'. Natural is a much abused word, and has more or less no meaning these days.
But of course you should eat whatever you feel is best for you yourself, there is no question about that.

Mentalmiss wrote:

Why would I want to eat kidney beans. My recollection is that they do not even taste nice.

They're pretty much staple in Mexican dishes, and quite tasty too

Shabadu

Mentalmiss wrote:

Why would you think that you should eat a food that is toxic if not cooked. Surely this fact alone should tell you that it was not meant for human consumption.

Please read the charter in regards to statements like this. Consider this a warning.

Mentalmiss

Peanut wrote:

Do you eat olives, or drink coffee, tea or alcohol? Because all of these require 'processing' from their natural state to make the end product - it doesn't mean it's bad, and it doesn't mean it's 'not natural' either.
QUOTE]
Yes, No, No and No.
I have yet to manage to give up olives but I do buy garanteed raw olives from a raw food site on the internet. I would not buy olives from a stall or shop as these are not even vegan but have lactic acid added.
I was in a branch of Wild Oats in the US last week and they had a huge variety of olives but when I asked the man if any were vegan he shook his head and said "if you vegan you not want to touch any of these" (that was written in my best greek accent).

Sapsorrow

Shabadu wrote: »

MentalMiss- I suggest you read the following article: http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/China-Study.html
.

I'm suprised at a mod posting a link to such a tacky site. Since when does anyone give a damn about the weston price foundation and their crusade! Such a joke.

Tar.Aldarion

Well I think after 4 years you can let it go

Sapsorrow

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Well I think after 4 years you can let it go

:eek: Holy sh*t batman you're right! How de hell did we end up back here anyway back to de future styleez! Actually didn't notice it was so old do these threads never get deleted or somethin?

sweet-rasmus

old skool thread indeed. ahhhhh *memories*

Sapsorrow

Ya thanks Tar for making a relative noobie feel like a T*t! :mad:






Note to self: take Tar off next Cork BBQ invite list...