Live 2-5 Hand

NickyOD

Loose 2-5 Cash Game. Straddled for 10 preflop. 4 callers. No raise from the straddle who is a good player.

You call in MP with 4-4. Flop comes down J-T-4 with 2 diamonds.

Straddler checked it. You decide to bet pot of 50. The player to your left smooth calls. He's on tilt and is likely to chase any dodgy draws. On this occasion he could be on either flush or striaght draw. Folded to the Straddler who makes it 200. What do you do now? You have 750 left. Chaser has 340, and the straddler has you covered. He almost certainly has J-T but is good enough to fold it if you reraise. Whether you raise or call the other player is likely to go with his draw.

Hectorjelly

If you are sure he has JT then just call the raise and push any turn. It makes no difference for the chaser as if he calls the 200 he is commited anyway, hopefully a blank will roll off and JT will pot it commiting him. Under normal circumstances in which im not sure he has JT im repotting it here.

wayfarer

Hectorjelly wrote:

If you are sure he has JT then just call the raise and push any turn. It makes no difference for the chaser as if he calls the 200 he is commited anyway, hopefully a blank will roll off and JT will pot it commiting him. Under normal circumstances in which im not sure he has JT im repotting it here.

If its not JT here, what do you think it is? A higher set is more likely than an open-ended straight draw & flush draw. Is there many more hands making this move? Is re-potting here not like re-raising in the $400NL hand, where all you are doing is allowing your opponent to play perfectly? You will be getting rid of the 2-pairs but the sets and maybe some of the draw will be staying on.

NickyOD

wayfarer wrote:

If its not JT here, what do you think it is? A higher set is more likely than an open-ended straight draw & flush draw. Is there many more hands making this move? Is repotting here not like re-raising in the $400NL hand? where all you are doing is allowing your opponent to play perfectly.

The only otrher hand I can think of is KQ/Q9 of diamonds. BTW It wasn't me in the hand. The Hero told me the action and I named the hands both villains had before he told me.

Hectorjelly

wayfarer wrote:

If its not JT here, what do you think it is? A higher set is more likely than an open-ended straight draw & flush draw. Is there many more hands making this move? Is re-potting here not like re-raising in the $400NL hand, where all you are doing is allowing your opponent to play perfectly? You will be getting rid of the 2-pairs but the sets and maybe some of the draw will be staying on.

Whilst they have similarities, this is a very draw heavy board, and our heros hand is much much stronger.

wayfarer

Hectorjelly wrote:

Whilst they have similarities, this is a very draw heavy board, and our heros hand is much much stronger.

But a check-raise is a much stronger move. I can't imagine him making this move with a lone straight or flush draw, he'd either lead or just call with either of these hands. Its either JT, maybe other 2 pairs (v. unlikely) sf draws or a set. If you were to re-pot it after his raise you will only really by called be the straight/flush draw (which is getting the odds) or the over set.

fuzzbox

NickyOD wrote:

Loose 2-5 Cash Game. Straddled for 10 preflop. 4 callers. No raise from the straddle who is a good player.

You call in MP with 4-4. Flop comes down J-T-4 with 2 diamonds.

Straddler checked it. You decide to bet pot of 50. The player to your left smooth calls. He's on tilt and is likely to chase any dodgy draws. On this occasion he could be on either flush or striaght draw. Folded to the Straddler who makes it 200. What do you do now? You have 750 left. Chaser has 340, and the straddler has you covered. He almost certainly has J-T but is good enough to fold it if you reraise. Whether you raise or call the other player is likely to go with his draw.

Hes "good enough" to fold top two on the most draw heavy board on the planet?????

You never push here with AdQd? Or KdQd? Or Qd8d? etc ?

I shove here.

fuzzbox

wayfarer wrote:

But a check-raise is a much stronger move. I can't imagine him making this move with a lone straight or flush draw, he'd either lead or just call with either of these hands. Its either JT, maybe other 2 pairs (v. unlikely) sf draws or a set. If you were to re-pot it after his raise you will only really by called be the straight/flush draw (which is getting the odds) or the over set.

This is a rather simplistic view. Folding top two on this board is not as simple as you make out.

fuzzbox

Hectorjelly wrote:

If you are sure he has JT then just call the raise and push any turn. It makes no difference for the chaser as if he calls the 200 he is commited anyway, hopefully a blank will roll off and JT will pot it commiting him. Under normal circumstances in which im not sure he has JT im repotting it here.

The problem is that any A, K, Q, 9, 8, 7, or diamond is a scare card. Some more than others, but there are still a LOT of cards that kill/dull your action.

I like a push.

wayfarer

fuzzbox wrote:

This is a rather simplistic view. Folding top two on this board is not as simple as you make out.

I was just looking at what HJ said about repotting if he was unsure whether the straddler holds JT, and that the other hands that he is likely to have other than this are ones that are getting favourable odds to call or have you beat

NickyOD

When he told me about this hand I agreed with HJ that he should call. He gains more chips by getting JT to stay in the hand.

He smooth called as did the other player. Turn was a non heart 8 and the straddle pushed. He called as did the other player.

Straddle did have JT and the other player had 56 of diamonds. A diamond landed on the river and the 4s took the side pot. No one at the table trhought he played the hand well. I disagree but still you would really need to be almost certain the straddle has JT AND is capable of folding them to justify slowplaying.