222 or 223, and Moderator Permit - Pushin My Luck

czmate

Hello everyone,

I am a long-time lurker, who loves this forum, so I've decided to join.

Anyway, I am thinking of replacing the old hornet with something a bit more oomphy, and would like some feedback from your experts on the following topics...

1. Calibre
I like the look of .223, and note from other threads (and by annoying gunshop owners) that ammo variety and price is very good. Performance on foxes is brilliant.

Also, I have been investigating .222 rem, and note that it is also a very accurate cartridge, and is very "moderatable" as it does not produce as much muzzle blast etc as the .223. According to the shooting press it is also powerful medicine on foxes out to 250 yards or therabouts. Problem is ammo is more expensive and rarer than .223. Of course if we eventually get to reload then price is reduced.

2. Rifles
I like the idea of the following...

A. Tikka Varmint in 222 or 223

B. Tikka Tactical in 223 - a beast of a yoke - I groped one in Stakelums in Urlingford a while back

3. CZ 527 Varmint Kevlar in either .222 or 223. you cant beat the old brnos - I will trade in my hornet...


3. Moderators
I would of course have to apply for a moderator permit. I would like to know peoples experiences with the following...

. Reflex or BR moderators that fit back along the barrell
.Muzzle mounted jobbies like the husher and JLS (Landers Tralee does the JLS).

4. Timing.
I have followed the recent threads on "223 and CJB", and cannot deny I am beginning to panic a bit. I reckon I will be on a hiding to nothing when I walk in to the station with "Hello sargeant, I have traded my hornet in for a 223, oh and by the way, I want a moderator license, and and as I think of it, with the new CJB being law, I want to reload". I should have got off me arse and done all this 6 months ago before this "restricted list" catchall on behalf of the minister was mooted.. Having sad that they are well used to me - I have 2 shotguns, a 22 brno, and a CZ hornet - any opinions on this?

thanks to all in advance of your expert advice,

czmate

mosulli4

Welcome czmate,

I was told many years ago, by my local FO that there was a "one rifle only, but as many shotguns as befits your requirements" rule in force.

I know this was BS, and presented an application for a 6.5 Sako (I joined Midlands in Offaly). He came back with an instistance on inspection of gunsafe by an appointed "house security" garda (plainclothes) and I got the license. I always look back on my Midlands membership card fondly as an Amex card - "that will do nicely sir"

I reckon the new CJB will eliminate a lot of the old wives tales we hear in stations, so go for it...

Let me know how you get on, I could be right behind you.


By the way - plum for the T3 tactical - I saw one too, and you cant beat €9.50 for 20 rounds in such an amazing machine...;)

best of luck - go for it


mosulli4

Vegeta

man i want my licence to come through so bad, go for it, you may get turned down for the moderator but you might get the rifle.

I would advise trading in the .22 hornet as otherwise they could come back saying the hornet is a fine rifle for shooting fox so there is no reason to have the .223

sniper2

have a cz .223 laminated varmit,man it is the business,want a tikka tact. and getting one at the best price out there,i say apply for the gun the moderator will follow and good luck:cool:

Keelan

Gor for it now.;)
I have a CZ .223 and love it. It fires most factory ammo wthin an inch and is dead cheap to feed.
The following ammo i have for my .223 is:

Sako 55 grain Soft points. 20 Euro a box of 20
Sako 50 grain SP.19 Euro a box of 20
Remington 55 grain Full metal Jacket. 9 Euro a box of 20.
Remington 45 grain Hallow point. 22 Euro a box of 20.
Remington 62 gr HP. 28 Euro a box of 20
Federal 64 GR SP. 19 Euro a box of 20
Federal American Eagle 50 GR HP.( the biss) 12 Euro a box of 20.
Federal American Eagle 55 GR FMJ.10 Euro a box of 20.
This is most, but their is more brands out their.
As you can see, amazing amount of brands available and very cheap, compared to other centerfire ammo.
Who needs all the hassel of reloading when their is all this ammo to choose from.
One more thing. The new Tikka T3s, have a 1 in 8 twist, some accuracy problems are being found with some common ammo available for it.
The best all rounder in my experience and others so far, is the 1 in 12 twist, with the .223.;)

oldzed

I disagree totally that 1 in 12 is the best 223 twist rate . 1 in 12
is ok
if you only ever want to shoot 50 or 55grs through your rifle , I have
seen
a remy 700 vssf keyholing 60gr bullets at 100yrds so 60 grs is the
absolute
limit for a 1 in 12 . I believe a 1 in 9 is the best all round twist
rate as
it can handle anything from 50 to 90 grs and i feel this is the best
all
round twist rate .when you push out the distance on a 223 the heavier
heads
work much better and the difference at 400 and 600 in a wind between
55gr
and 75gr heads is huge. i would not recommend a 1 in 8 unless you
always
want to shoot over 70grs and that rules out some of the nice 55gr
ballistic
tips that are some of the best foxing rounds.

Im using a sgc ssr15 speedmaster with a 20inch fluted heavy barrell and
a 1
in 8 twist .

in short dont buy a 1 in 12 unless you only want to shoot 55gr or less

Dvs

Czmate,
trade your hornet,
apply for your Rifle only,
do not
mention moderators, until after you have both licence and rifle for a period of time, probably months would be best.

Don't mention reloading, until after it becomes a fact in the CJB.

I understand your logic, you are a law abiding person and wish to be honest and upfront with the enforcers of the law, however, they do not consider you as such, you do not wear the uniform of infallibility, you want a firearm this makes you a potential problem.

Members of the Garda (Superintendents) that deal with granting firearms licenses, do not multi-task well, more than one request at a time causes them problems.

Apparently,
it makes it harder to consider and contemplate for months on end,
each item requires its own consideration time.:rolleyes:

Go cap in hand, ask the nice Garda for a license for that yoke,
and don't mention the CJB, reloading, or that you might know more about firearms than they do!
and sure you'll be grand.

Dvs.

marlin

welcome czmate
I traded my 17hmr for a tikka t3 lite .223 last jan and am delighted with the rifle and the calibre,fantastic foxing rifle.as for the twist debate I,ve got a 1in8 and actually found remington accutips 55gn and sako gameheads also 55 gn the most accurate. I,ve tried 69gn rems and also 45gn rems and they shoot ok but not as accurate as the 55s. tried a box of federal fmj 55 gns and they were crap in my gun anyway,2 in groups @100 yds.
I think if you know your local guard there should be no problem with licence,
I got a little .22 cz scout a few weeks after the .223 and had the licence within a week ,good luck and happy shooting

czmate

Thanks to everyone for their input. Can anyone give me ballpark prices for the rifles mentioned above, specifically the...

.Tikka T3 Lite
.Tikka T3 Tactical
.CZ 223, especially the varmint, and the varmint kevlar.

I am starting to shop around soon, and need to get a good balance between the cost of the rifle, and maybe a decent scope.

Cheers again for all the help

czmate

johngalway

czmate wrote:

Thanks to everyone for their input. Can anyone give me ballpark prices for the rifles mentioned above, specifically the...

.Tikka T3 Lite
.Tikka T3 Tactical
.CZ 223, especially the varmint, and the varmint kevlar.

I am starting to shop around soon, and need to get a good balance between the cost of the rifle, and maybe a decent scope.

Cheers again for all the help

czmate

It's not what you're after but I was quoted 1015 for a Tikka Varmint SS in .223. The lite would be less and the Tactical a good bit more I'd imagine. Hope that helps a little. Asked about CZ's over a month ago, cant quite remember the models now but they were under a grand.

John

Rew

~900 for the lite
~1400 for the Tac
~1000 CZ varmint
~1200 for the CZ Varmint Kev

There all ball park as far as I know.

czmate

Rew,

you have been a big help. It's either the T3 Lite @ 900 or the Tactical @ 1400 in other words go the whole hog...


thanks a million

time to hit ebay for scopes - I hae my eye on a deben/hawke 10x42 mildot - I have seen and heard great things about them...


cheers

czmate;)

czmate

your reply is much appreciated - a good price

I will shop around. I have seen the varmit SS, and it is a gorgeous rifle. I already have a Sako Varmint in 6.5x55, with a "hubble telescope" on top, so I am looking for a sleeker, lower weight rifle for local fun. It is too much gun for standing/kneeling/sitting shots, but at that price I would just share the harris bipod between them...

cheers.

czmate

TonyM.

HI
I found this forum by accident on my way to the computer section I do a little shooting I have an Anschutz Hornet (with the Monty Carlo stock)
and see no need to upgrade why are people looking for more firepower?

The company I work for sell guns but i am not involved in that section of the business I am just putting my cards on the table before I join the forum if
anybody wants prices I can refer them to the man in charge if I am not breaking any rules.

Rew

czmate wrote:

It is too much gun for standing/kneeling/sitting shots, but at that price I would just share the harris bipod between them...

Tactical and SS Varmint are both pretty heavy rifles so keep that in mind.

Rew

TonyM. wrote:

HI
I found this forum by accident on my way to the computer section I do a little shooting I have an Anschutz Hornet (with the Monty Carlo stock)
and see no need to upgrade why are people looking for more firepower?

Really depends what your doing, no caliber does everything.

The company I work for sell guns but i am not involved in that section of the business I am just putting my cards on the table before I join the forum if
anybody wants prices I can refer them to the man in charge if I am not breaking any rules.

U cannt tout comercially on the board. There are threads where u can recomend dealers that you have personal experince of.

Welcome to the forum

TonyM.

I was just making things clear from the start i do not want to sell anything
and i do not know a lot about guns but i can find information for people if they need it .

thelurcher

On the subject of mederators this is lifted ver-batim from another site but I think it's worth passing on:

the best available here in Europe, with regards to materials, manufacture and performance is most definately the Brugger & Thomet.

but the variouse models are expensive, meet and or exceed mil spec, but (apart for a couple of models) dont back shroud (not that that brings much in the way of suppression anyway) and are very heavey.

I like the A-tec, its a simple idea, is strippable and works very well for the cost and the weight. ( noise reduction is up there with the best)

Reflex, Ikea moderator is what i call it, good idea let down by manufacture and materials.. (bit like most of the Ikea furnature) would be ok at 40 quid, bin it when its nackered and get another.

Lapwood husher, seems to work ok with full power ammo (is useless with subsonic) but is a bit long for my tastes.

Wildcat, peak noise on tests was louder with than without, but other wise, manufacture wise the things look ok. warrants further developement.

PES. Julian has been helpfull and informative in my few dealings with him, can't say ive tested a PES, but folks seem to eithert love or hate them.

Jet Z seems to be a mod worth looking at. Ive been near one during firing, and fired one, worked as i thought it should.

Gemtec.. very similar to B&T. also very good.

Advanced Armament Corporation.. also very good

SAI.. wasn't impressed, but better than nothing.

there are tons more out there.

fitting a moderator should be done right. ive seen many barrels with wonky threads. Its a simple basic engineering operation, but it should be done in a lathe and not by holding the barrel in a vice and winding a die onto it by hand as some of the stuff ive seen tends to suggest.
You can get away with a badly centred thread by opeing the baffles up a bit, but invariabley you already did that with a bullet !!.
It usualy seems possible to allow tighter baffles on a custom barrel than on a factory, as with the custom you know the hole is in the middle. and shouldn't have to allow for an mass production QC screw ups( no pun intended)
I believe you should use the biggest therad possible, i'm not keen on 1/2UNF on 30cal barrels. the smallest diameter i like to go on CF barrels is M15. thats what i tend to use on sporters, next up is M17 and M18 and 3/4UNF. thats the 4 sizes i use. 1/2UNF should be rim fire only.
We are currently playing with a QD mounting for the A-tec and i will also be getting one soon for my B&T.

Most of the mods available work well to a certain degree, i think you end up getting what you paid for, (exept in the case of the reflex, which i realy don't think is worth the money).

pestshooter7

Bought a new remy 700 VSF 6 weeks ago.(223)
droped th paper work of a the gaurds!
got my licence 2 days ago. (6 weeks return)
Gards never asked my any questions jus signed all the form regardless.
never was a problem hav 4 guns and i pity all the people with trouble with gaurds!
glad i live in the west!!!

foxshooter243

oldzed wrote: »

I disagree totally that 1 in 12 is the best 223 twist rate . 1 in 12
is ok
if you only ever want to shoot 50 or 55grs through your rifle , I have
seen
a remy 700 vssf keyholing 60gr bullets at 100yrds so 60 grs is the
absolute
limit for a 1 in 12 . I believe a 1 in 9 is the best all round twist
rate as
it can handle anything from 50 to 90 grs and i feel this is the best
all
round twist rate .when you push out the distance on a 223 the heavier
heads
work much better and the difference at 400 and 600 in a wind between
55gr
and 75gr heads is huge. i would not recommend a 1 in 8 unless you
always
want to shoot over 70grs and that rules out some of the nice 55gr
ballistic
tips that are some of the best foxing rounds.

Im using a sgc ssr15 speedmaster with a 20inch fluted heavy barrell and
a 1
in 8 twist .

in short dont buy a 1 in 12 unless you only want to shoot 55gr or less

you are off the mark with that statement- you cant compare a rifles twist
rate with bullet weight only with bullet length-google the greenhill formula
for verification-as a rule of thumb , longer bullets of a given calibre require a faster twist rate to stabilise them to the point where they shoot more accurately than shorter bullets, i shoot 40 grain v max bullets through a 1;8 twist with superb accuracy-through to 80 grain v max ,its the bullets length not weight that matters

packas

Dvs wrote: »

Czmate,
trade your hornet,
apply for your Rifle only,
do not
mention moderators, until after you have both licence and rifle for a period of time, probably months would be best.

Don't mention reloading, until after it becomes a fact in the CJB.

I understand your logic, you are a law abiding person and wish to be honest and upfront with the enforcers of the law, however, they do not consider you as such, you do not wear the uniform of infallibility, you want a firearm this makes you a potential problem.

Members of the Garda (Superintendents) that deal with granting firearms licenses, do not multi-task well, more than one request at a time causes them problems.

Apparently,
it makes it harder to consider and contemplate for months on end,
each item requires its own consideration time.:rolleyes:

Go cap in hand, ask the nice Garda for a license for that yoke,
and don't mention the CJB, reloading, or that you might know more about firearms than they do!
and sure you'll be grand.

Dvs.

I agree with DVS. Look for the rifle first. I've expeirenced their multi tasking skills in the past. Not good

Once you get your licnece ask the Super for a permission letter (under law all you need is a letter giving permission to hold it. It's not a licence) for a moderator. I would request it on the grounds of health & safety i.e. you carry out vermin control & you don't want to disturb livestock and other animals (horses) etc in the area you shoot.
Pat.

clivej

Just bought a CZ 527 LUX .223 over the weekend €650. I can PM you the dealer if you want.
OR could I just have shown/typed the dealer details here now, is that allowed???????

Umiq88

em draggin up old threads??

Date originally is from a year and a half ago