Email from the senior tutor

John

Just got that email from the senior tutor about that girl who died. Since when does the whole college hear about deaths now? I don't remember a college wide email when a girl from science was killed a couple of years ago. Not that I'm bitching about it or anything, just wondering.

Downtime

John2 wrote:

Since when does the whole college hear about deaths now?

It wasn't sent to the whole college - well not the cs post grads anyway.

Comhra....

I didn't get it either

Nietzschean

To: academic-staff@tcd.ie, admin-staff@tcd.ie, postgrads@tcd.ie, undergrads@tcd.ie
in all likely hood, that is you haven't gotten it yet........

I assume because it is near exam time? The point of the e-mail really is for anyone who knows the person to contact the relevant services if they need to.

Stargal

That makes the most sense Dónal. I've thought about this a good bit and I think they should send a mail out to all of college whenever any student dies - it's not nice for someone to find out something like that through the grapevine.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

it also adds to a sense of community. thought it was very nice to send it out. seems like a very sad story.

Stargal

Yeah you're right. There seems to be so little acknowledgement from college when someone dies - it's not right.

Downtime

Downtime wrote:

It wasn't sent to the whole college - well not the cs post grads anyway.

I arrived since - very sad and nice of the college to send the mail I feel.

Time Magazine

It's good it was sent out. This is, after all, a person.

But should an email be sent out for everyone? Would appear a bit like those emails we get advertising study prep classes and so on?

Toughie.

europerson

I think it was the right thing to do, seeing as this person was a member of the College community. I think the death of anybody in College should be notified to everyone like this, because, as Roundtower2 said, it adds to the sense of community. Imagine what would happen if someone in your school died. This is the same thing.

Nietzschean

i don't think anyone is suggesting that it shouldn't have been sent, i think john was just more curious as to is it a new policy or some specific reason, as previous ones haven't been announced. I'd agree its a good idea that they send out the mail too..

John

Yeah, I'm not against it. Just I know there have been deaths in the past but it's normally kept to the class that the person belonged to. I was wondering what was different now.

Hermione*

I think they did something similar in NUIG last year when my sister had an accident and was in a coma - I don't think there was a mass email but there was a special college Mass arranged to pray for her. I found the idea really comforting at the time. So does she.

Black_Couch

Angry Banana wrote:

But should an email be sent out for everyone? Would appear a bit like those emails we get advertising study prep classes and so on?

Toughie.

NO i don't think it would because its not that often a student dies in college whilst there are plenty of them exam prep classes. You can't compare the two subjects anyway even if emails were sent about both frequently. Was nice gesture by the college I feel.

xeduCat

Just three slightly related points:

1) Some seem to think that a student death is quite infrequent. Unfortunately, it's not so, and you would easily see 10 or so within a year. One of the most awful jobs for an SU president is attending all the funerals. I had the experience last year of taking a call late on a Friday evening giving me the required notification (see below). They don't tell you this when you run for election.

2) There is actually a 'protocol' - a very detailed one. I can't recall what was said regarding emails, but it covers primarily information flow - e.g. who is responsible for telling who, as well as seemingly silly logistical details like ensuring that library records are updated (to prevent awkward and hurtful situations like a grieving family getting a bill in the post). It also deals with counselling/support to some level of detail, although that varies a lot based on circumstances and timing. Having also been in a class where someone died suddenly and in disturbing circumstances in final year, I've seen the protocol in operation from both sides. It works quite smoothly.

3) The college currently marks the death of certain staff - possibly just Fellows - by the lowering of a flag. Extending this policy to mark the death of a student (with the family's consent) would be a much more fitting use of the time of student representatives than other flag debates.

Crash

I'd agree on the flag thing - very much so in fact. Actually, its rare that you actually suddenly realise just how common a thing it is in college - a part of your mind is heartily convinced it is maybe one or two people a year, but in reality its much higher - quite disturbing really.

John

Thanks for the info Daithi.

ISAW

John2 wrote:

Just got that email from the senior tutor about that girl who died. Since when does the whole college hear about deaths now? I don't remember a college wide email when a girl from science was killed a couple of years ago. Not that I'm bitching about it or anything, just wondering.

there is a "death protocol".
You will find it on page 86 of the following document.
http://www.tcd.ie/Student_Counselling/mental_health_manual/mental%20health%20manual-FINAL.pdf

John

Thanks for the link. The whole document looks interesting. Must give it a look through when I'm not elbow deep in notes.

shay_562

I read the link provided, but I'm still a little unclear as to why this death and none of the others that have happened this year (this is the fourth I've heard of, doubtless there are more) was sent to the entire student body? As John said, not complaining, simply curious as to why the process here was different (especially since, as many have said, there's a strict protocol in place)

Pet

Maybe it's because she was a third year, and because it's close to exams? ie, people are already wound up enough, so college want to make them aware of the support services and such?

ISAW

shay_562 wrote:

I read the link provided, but I'm still a little unclear as to why this death and none of the others that have happened this year (this is the fourth I've heard of, doubtless there are more) was sent to the entire student body?

Possibly because of the other cases and not the case in hand. When the people at the top of the list were contacted (the protocol covers contacting family/friends/classmates) first, the family may have said "We want a quite funeral" or "we would respect if you left us deal with it from here".

I think it is unlikely someone made a mistake in posting everyone. If you have a query with respect to this particular case being different I suggest you contact a Tutor and ask them. After all that is part of what the system is for.

europerson

Good man, Daithi. I agree on the flag being flown at half-mast. That would be a nice gesture.

Crash

Had a read of the protocol - as John said, thats actually a very very interesting document in general. There are a couple of things i'd raise an eyebrow at (I never quite got college's idea that the Chaplaincy could be considered on the same level as the student counselling service) kinda thing.

Andrew 83

Read the protocol there. It certainly makes sense that it talks of a member of staff close to the class to inform them. I would say though that once news has been broken to immediate friends etc an email to the college would be a good step (perhaps ask the family first if they're ok with it and then do so).

Half mast is definitely a good idea.

Hermione*

Half mast is a great idea.

NUIG arranged a Mass for my sis without contacting us, then again we were at a bedside in Dublin so it's not like we could have attended. It had a large attendance too by all accounts so I'm presuming they notified the students through some channel. On the counselling/chaplaincy thing, the college chaplain drove to Dublin to visit her for no more than twenty minutes in ICU; that's a long journey for twenty minutes. I can't see a counsellor doing that tbh, and my parents were so touched that he did that for their daughter.

Also, maybe the third year thing was a factor, my sis was final year and had her accident two months before her finals. Her friends had to sit their final exams while she was in ICU in Dublin; most of them didn't have an opppurtunity to see her even once in hospital til after their exams, which can't have been easy for them.

Just my experience of the whole thing.

Crash

my issue in relation to counsellor - Chaplain is the inherent religion aspect of it. I know a part of me found my friend's catholic funeral a bit odd seeing as he was so devoutly (and hilarious about it) atheistic - so issues like that can seriously jarr with people.

Hermione*

Yeah, that type of situation would probably annoy me too. For people who are religious though, it's times of distress when they most lean on their religion. Also from experience, it's a LOT easier to get time with a college chaplain that with the counsellor. In UCD anyway, the queues are ridiculous. :rolleyes:

cuckoo

&#231 wrote: »

my issue in relation to counsellor - Chaplain is the inherent religion aspect of it. I know a part of me found my friend's catholic funeral a bit odd seeing as he was so devoutly (and hilarious about it) atheistic - so issues like that can seriously jarr with people.

I guess that's why we're asked our religion when we register in first year, i've heard of a couple of people from halls who were in hospital for various reasons and were visited by a college chaplain. I think the chaplains do very good work, and while my experience would be limited to catholic priests, they would have a lot of experience in dealing with people coping with a death, and would be very good at it.

Sometimes the almost wordless comfort of being around someone who has such faith can be better than 'how does that make you feel?' counselling. I'm not knocking counselling, nor those who practise it or benefit from it, it's just that death is a natural part of our lives. It's always sad, sometimes it's sudden, sometimes it seems to be too early, but it's not necessary to hold faith to derive benefit from the processes religions use to mark a death.

Crash

Oh i wasn't inherently knocking the chaplain setup in college, or the chaplains themselves, It was just something I personally was unsure of.

fookchooknooris

Personally, I'd like to be made aware if a student/staff/friend of trinity college died. I don't mind getting emails that are succinct and not about pharmaceuticals. I wouldn't notice the half mast flag thing so I wouldn't be too bothered about it. I might have a look out now for the flags.

Andrew 83

When it comes to chaplains and councillors I think it's important to have room for both. Personally I would have no interest in ever going near a councillor and if one came to visit me I'd probably just say something along the lines of 'thanks for coming, I appreciate it, but no thanks'. On the other hand I'd appreciate a chaplain visiting. I'm sure for many people it would be the opposite but there should be room for both. While not everyone has a personal belief in religion, not all of us have a belief in the use of councilling for us as individuals in our own cases.

Crash

I personally have little belief in either case for myself, so both would generally be an "i appreciate it, but no thanks" - though a slightly (only slightly) catholic upbringing and some very interesting 3rd cousin priests would make me slightly more predisposed to the former i guess, with a number of conditionals.

Hermione*

I think the problem with college counselling is that it's so hard to access with waiting lists and so on. With a chaplain, it's much easier to access and it doesn't even have to be from a religious dimension - most chaplains will just listen to you, if you explain to them that you're not particularly religious and need to talk to someone.

I definitely think we should have both though.