Any advice on Zero Loss Timber Houses and Air Drawn Geothermal ?

Pocari Sweat

I am looking to build a timber frame (stone outer walls) with a zero loss rating and passive heating.

Are there any good zero loss timber frame companies out there that can guarantee decent heat without the need for heating and would a geothermal system be too much heat needed for a zero loss house ?

Also I have seen on my travels around Athlone, houses with air drawn geothermal systems, no water pipes required. The system draws in the ambient heat in air and can work to temps as low as minus 40. Yes -40! How does it perform in Ireland and how much ?

danyosan

I am also building and am looking for the same thing (see timber frame houses thread). I'd be interested in any replies as well.

gonk

Pocari Sweat wrote:

Are there any good zero loss timber frame companies out there that can guarantee decent heat without the need for heating and would a geothermal system be too much heat needed for a zero loss house ?

Talk to Scandinavian Homes in Galway:

http://www.scanhome.ie/passive.php

Pocari Sweat

Yeh I'm going to call them I have seen one of their houses I was working in recently, they seem a good firm, and pretty local.

They were the first to bring in zero loss house in connemara.

gonk

Friends of mine have one of their houses in Kinvara - they're very happy with it (not a passive house though).

To my eye, their house designs look a bit agricultural, but I suppose they would argue they're just allowing form to follow function . . .

Their website also has lots of good info on the general concepts of passive house design.

CJhaughey

I have a scanhome and it is a plain house just a box with a pointy roof really.
But I think that the point that is usually made with houses is that the more features and structures that you add to a basic design the harder it is to effectively insulate and seal the house.
for example fitting dormers is a big loss in terms of trying to insulate the dwarf walls etc, even fitting a velux is a net loss in heat terms.
I realise that some people want to have a stylish house with lots of design ideas but often you will find that they pay a price both in energy costs and in heating bills.
Have you seen the show house in Galway, the old showhouse not the passive?
He has added a curved front entrance with a round window to break the lines up a bit, so I would say that anythinig is possible really as long as you are prepared to pay...

gonk

CJhaughey wrote:

I realise that some people want to have a stylish house with lots of design ideas but often you will find that they pay a price both in energy costs and in heating bills.

I take your point, but I don't think a house necessarily needs to be quite as utilitarian looking as the Scandinavian Homes designs to be energy efficient. Have a look at Century Homes' Eco House design, for example.

http://www.century.ie/cent/ecohouse.asp

CJhaughey

gonk wrote:

I take your point, but I don't think a house necessarily needs to be quite as utilitarian looking as the Scandinavian Homes designs to be energy efficient. Have a look at Century Homes' Eco House design, for example.

http://www.century.ie/cent/ecohouse.asp

I priced Century and they are what I would consider to be on the high side of the market.
I would be interested to compare the price of an equivalent scanhome to the century.
One thing with scanhomes is that they provided all the materials to finish the house, so that you have all the materials on site to work with thereby cutting out excessively priced local suppliers.
I found this very handy, as we worked all we had to buy was slab and insulation for the walls and ceiliing.

mikeleane

Hi guys.Mike is my name, i work for Western Super Warm Homes, a construction company based in Athenry. We use many different building solutions for energy efficient and sustainable development. We not only use timber frame(Which we make ourselves in Tuam and which can save up to 40% on heating bills) but also Aircrete blocks( These are light weight building blocks which are as strong as normal concrete blocks but insulate 10 TIMES better ) also, you may have already noticed that most timber frame companies supply a timber frame only service, we do a full shell build and we build to your house design so your home doesnt have to look like a garden shed

danyosan

Hi mike, do you have a website or brochure you could send me? I'd be interested in the full build timber frame passive house.

mikeleane

www.westhome.ie or call me on 0874105801

shakeydude

Hi Mike

I was just wondering what the costs are in relation to normal concrete blocks and and the aircrete blocks, to buy and to lay.

CJ, in relation to the Century Home house I think that these are passive houses which would account for the additional costs against the Scan home, but I could be corrected on this:o

Viking House

mikeleane wrote:

Hi guys.Mike is my name, i work for Western Super Warm Homes, a construction company based in Athenry. We use many different building solutions for energy efficient and sustainable development. We not only use timber frame(Which we make ourselves in Tuam and which can save up to 40% on heating bills) but also Aircrete blocks( These are light weight building blocks which are as strong as normal concrete blocks but insulate 10 TIMES better ) also, you may have already noticed that most timber frame companies supply a timber frame only service, we do a full shell build and we build to your house design so your home doesnt have to look like a garden shed

Hi Mike

Seamus here from Viking-House, we are a building company working in the Dublin area. We build 1 off closed panel timber-frame houses, by plastering directly onto the granitewool insulation boards externally we don't build an external wall and we line the frame internally with Fermacell which is 10 times more impact resistant than plasterboard.
We use taped/tongue and grooved OSB internally instead of a vapour barrier and use 250mm Granitewool insulation in the walls. This system is a lot easier to get airtight.
We also build Poroton block houses and extensions in the Dublin area which we insulate externally with Granitewool boards to increase the U-values to Passive levels.
The new Perlite filled Poroton blocks should improve things even more.

Where do you buy the Aircrete blocks and how much are they?
Do you build with single skin or with a cavity?
Do you build walls outside the timberframe houses?
Do you insulate onsite or in the factory?

gonk

CJhaughey wrote:

I realise that some people want to have a stylish house with lots of design ideas but often you will find that they pay a price both in energy costs and in heating bills.

CJhaughey wrote:

I priced Century and they are what I would consider to be on the high side of the market.

These are in fact two different points and what I was arguing was that while the second (on the capital cost of building) may be correct, the first (on energy efficiency) ain't necessarily so and it is certainly possible to build an energy efficient house without following the template of the Scandianvian Homes designs, which to me resemble very big garden sheds.

That said, I am not criticising Scandinavian Homes, from what I know of them they provide a good quality product. Just a question of taste (and affordability) really.

CJhaughey

My point was that yes you can have a house with design ideas but you will pay for it.
In fact seeing as this thread is about passive houses I would go so far as to say that unless you are fairly wealthy you cannot afford to build other than a simple shape.
For example the passive house that has been much publicised in recent magazine articles built in Wicklow cost in the region of 700k which is out of the average persons budget.
In most European countries the passive houses tend to be simple in form.
primarily because as you put more features into a house(dormer windows, roof windows etc ) the house becomes less and less efficient.
I am not saying that you cannot have a passive house with design ideas but that simple shapes lend themselves to the passive format more readily than complex forms.
for example a velux window is a net energy loss in terms of a structure.
you could of course buy a 2+1 special velux glazing but you pay for it.
I had a look at the century homes eco house but that house is not a passive house, so we are comparing apples with oranges.

Viking House

How big is your house CJ and how much does it cost to heat it per year?

CJhaughey

Hi Viking house.
The house is 99m2 on the ground floor and 57m2 upstairs, we are only in it 2 weeks so I can't give any figures yet.

Pocari Sweat

Can Scandinavian Houses, build passive house for 200 k?

Fair size 3 to 4 bed, bungalow? No dormer windows needed, maybe velux, south facing site. What would be included, how far could budget include stone faced walls?

CJhaughey

AFAIK Scandinavian homes don't do stone facing, your options are plaster or timber.
Have a look at the website and all the prices are there, if you are serious about one read the technical manual and then ask questions.

Do-more

Pocari Sweat wrote:

Also I have seen on my travels around Athlone, houses with air drawn geothermal systems, no water pipes required. The system draws in the ambient heat in air and can work to temps as low as minus 40. Yes -40! How does it perform in Ireland and how much ?

I assume you mean an air to air heat exchanger (or heat pump), my in-laws in Sweden have a Panasonic unit which cost approx. €3000 installed, their oil fired central heating bills are now nearly zero and it costs just pennies a day to run. Of course their house designs helps, as it is pretty much open plan and the unit is fitted in the stairwell in the celler allowing heat to rise through the house. Efficency of this type of unit should be better in Ireland compared to Sweden as we have higher ambient temperatures and higher relative humidity. The only draw back here is in terms of heat distribution as we tend to have more enclosed spaces in our houses. But could possibly work well in combination with a heat recovery ventilation system.

You could also consider an air to water heatpump such as the one available from www.lowenergy.ie with heat distribution by fan convectors.

In terms of low energy houses, my own preferance is for insulated concrete formwork, www.polarwall.ie www.styroblock.com they may not be the best in ecological terms due to the use of concrete, (but then most timberframe houses are built on a concrete slab) but are well suited to the Irish climate.

Maud

Are you building a polarwall house Do-more. How much insulation will be in the wall?