hand advice for a cash game novice

ditpoker

played the fitz 1-2 game for the first time a few days ago, sat down with 100 and was playing very tight, after a while the following hand happens. I noticed how much limping goes on (apparently this is the norm) and i'm not too used to pot limit poker so i figured there's limited value in raising from early position.

I'm about second or third to act, AJdiamonds and i limp, three others limp, small blind completes and BB checks. pot is about 14.

flop is 369, with two diamonds. its checked to me, i like my flush draw but am also very aware than either blinds could have hit here so i try and take my free card and i check (comments?) , and happy days when the whole table checks and i do get my free card - but looking back i think i could have taken the pot here maybe.

turn is 4, no diamond. sb checks, and BB leads for 5, one caller and i flat call on my draw (comments?) as does one guy behind me... pot is now at 34 i think.

river is a black ace, so at least i've improved, BB makes it 10, next player folds... i figure the BB bet at the 4 and my ace is probably good against him, i called the 10 even though there is still a player to act... in the end the player behind me also calls.... (comments?)

results to follow...

ianmc38

I prefer to bet hand where I'm prepared to call a bet. Check-calling smells too much like a draw and you won't get paid off as often.

I realy doubt you're ahead on the river, but i'd probably call and berate someone for limping with 25o.

ChipLdr

Jeff playing cash games :eek:

I like your play. I agree with the pointless raising in EP in PL with a semi strong hand like AJs.I think you played it well.The fitz cash games are what i would call semi loose to crazy gamble.

If someone bet the flop after you i would probably check/raise.You got your free card which is good. I'd possibly raise the turn as a bet of €5 is weak although 5,7 and 2,5 are hands looking for sucker calls!!! If u get reraised you still have a lot of outs as i feel a diamond on the river in an unraised pot will kill all action so by playing your hand strong,your semi bluff can be very profitable.

I think flat calling the river is OK too.

Did you finish up or down on the night?

cardshark202

I raise in EP with this hand in those games. I bet the flop, maybe check the turn (depending on who's called me), and value bet the river. Any pair will call you.

ditpoker

RESULT:
The player who folded after the BB made it 10 on the river said he had the K-high flush draw so would have got nicely paid if it hit. BB had A4 and took down the pot with two pair which thinking back i really could have put him on 2 pair as he didnt seem phased by the rivered ace at all.

ChipLdr wrote:

Jeff playing cash games :eek:
Did you finish up or down on the night?

went in at around 11, got into the game at 11.20, played til 1am and left on 131 for a HUGE profit of 31 quid... then went to coppers... net profit on night about three quid!

Hectorjelly

you played it fine, raising preflop and or betting the flop would be fine too.

ChipLdr

Well wp apart from the coppers move, thats serious -EV!!!!

RoundTower

I would never play it like this but your line is fine.

pok3rplaya

I would say played to perfection considering the loose table.

Hectorjelly

pok3rplaya wrote:

I would say played to perfection considering the loose table.

no, if I played this hand I would of won it

fuzzbox

Hectorjelly wrote:

no, if I played this hand I would of won it

I would, not only have won it, but won a significant number of bets from K-high flush draw boy!!.

ianmc38

pok3rplaya wrote:

I would say played to perfection considering the loose table.

I don't think it's played to perfection at all.

Bet the flop and A4 folds. K high flush draw will call the flop and probably the turn.

Hectorjelly

fuzzbox wrote:

I would, not only have won it, but won a significant number of bets from K-high flush draw boy!!.

I would of won the hand and made a small but significent advance in the fight to cure cancer AND looked nonchalant about the whole thing

pok3rplaya

Hectorjelly wrote:

no, if I played this hand I would of won it

Semi-bluff the calling stations? I think not.

The fish won't put two and two together if the flush hits and you can profit. If it doesen't hit then by playing it this way (as played) we have lost the least. The river call is fine I think, perhaps raise but more likely not.

pok3rplaya

ianmc38 wrote:

I don't think it's played to perfection at all.

Bet the flop and A4 folds.

We have A4 dominated, why do we want it to fold?

ianmc38 wrote:

K high flush draw will call the flop and probably the turn.

It will also check the flop and the turn for free, (which is also cheaper for us = better), and still lose it's stack on the river if the flush hits.

Hectorjelly

pok3rplaya wrote:

Semi-bluff the calling stations? I think not.

The fish won't put two and two together if the flush hits and you can profit. If it doesen't hit then by playing it this way (as played) we have lost the least. The river call is fine I think, perhaps raise but more likely not.

You are totally wrong.

Raise preflop, note this is a raise for value and not a semi bluff- A4 probably folds
Bet the flop - A4 definitely folds - he has no pair and no draw


The hand was played fine, in that it was +EV; but it wasnt optium by any stretch of the imagination.

Hectorjelly

pok3rplaya wrote:

We have A4 dominated, why do we want it to fold?

think about what your saying here. Preflop you have every hand dominated when you have AA, but you still raise. On the flop we are happy for a4 to come along for the ride, but not for free.

pok3rplaya

Ok thats true, we don't want any opposing hand getting free cards (with the excepion of a lower flush draw) but on the flip side we have no hand on the flop - we have nothing to bet. Betting draws can only be made +EV through folding equity, I'm not sure but I'm guessing that at this table FE is some thing we have very little of. Therefore, by definition, betting the flop can be nothing but -EV, so why bet? Do you think we can fold out all other 5 players by betting the flop?

pok3rplaya

How likely is it that we have the best hand on the flop? Because if we have no FE then having the best hand is mainly the only other possible reason we might bet.

Hectorjelly

pok3rplaya wrote:

Ok thats true, we don't want any opposing hand getting free cards (with the excepion of a lower flush draw) but on the flip side we have no hand on the flop - we have nothing to bet. Betting draws can only be made +EV through folding equity, I'm not sure but I'm guessing that at this table FE is some thing we have very little of. Therefore, by definition, betting the flop can be nothing but -EV, so why bet? Do you think we can fold out all other 5 players by betting the flop?

On the flop you have an equity approaching 50% (2 overs and flush draw)
against a one pair hand, so you dont mind a call. Often times no one wil have anything and everyone will fold, in this hand the only person who would of called was drawing almost dead.

There is a small chance your ace high is in the lead on the flop as well, and its unlikely someone with bottom pair will call you. Even if they do its in your interests to build the pot so that you can induce your opponenents to make significent mistakes should you make your hand.

pok3rplaya

hmm...

Holdem Hi: 666 enumerated boards containing 9s 6d 3d
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ad Jd 254 38.14 412 61.86 0 0.00 0.381
Qc 9c 116 17.42 550 82.58 0 0.00 0.174
Kd Qd 57 8.56 609 91.44 0 0.00 0.086
As 4h 5 0.75 661 99.25 0 0.00 0.008
7h 6h 72 10.81 582 87.39 12 1.80 0.117
7d 8h 150 22.52 504 75.68 12 1.80 0.234


K I need to start getting more aggro with overcard flush draws.

ianmc38

pok3rplaya wrote:

We have A4 dominated, why do we want it to fold?

It will also check the flop and the turn for free, (which is also cheaper for us = better), and still lose it's stack on the river if the flush hits.

Everything you've said there is just wrong.

fuzzbox

Hectorjelly wrote:

I would of won the hand and made a small but significent advance in the fight to cure cancer AND looked nonchalant about the whole thing

I know what I am ... but what are you?