hand from GJP 100 FO last nite

Gholimoli

i posted a report from last night and this hand is still bugging me and i want to know if/how i went wrong and how others would have played this .
especially thoes that are mpore aggro amongst you.
5 handed.
blinds 2/4K .
chips count:
me 40K
villain 28K who likes to limp alot with a alot of hands.usually limps with an Ax or Kx sooted.
3 others have 10K,12K,40K.
table is not too tight but not aggro at all and most raises do take the pot uncosted or else its all in so no real post flop play.
Hand:
UTG limps .
im UTG+1 and hold 22.
i decide to raise here hoping to take the pot which is now 10K.
the person right after me has only about 10K and SB has 12K or so and BB is the 40K stack.
i make it 12K (thoughts?).
its folded around to UTG who goes all in for another 14K.
so i need to call 14K to win 58K so i make the call and UTG has KK.
what do you think?

Norwich Fan Rob

with big stack on BB, and utg after limping, 22 is not a good hand to put a large % of your stack in with from UTG+1.
It plays very badly against almost all other hands that are liable to call.
If u are determined to play it, to steal, why not move in, as you are practically pot committing yourself to call a re raise, and this would stop BB who could well try a stop and go type move here or decide to see a flop with KTs or similar, (or UTG could try a stop and go, hes getting good odds to see a flop also).

Culchie

Into the Muck

sikes

with one of the short stacks in the blinds, and a limper utg who will do a lot of damage to you, this is an easy fold for me at this stage.

ChipLdr

Sorry G but I think you played this poorly. UTG+1 with 22 and raising with low stacks around you is tournament suicide. Even if any of the shorties had of called you then you weren't in great shape to win the pot.

But then for UTG to reraise you it smacks of a strong hand. Although you viewed the situation as getting over 4/1 to call,you really need in the region of 7/1 to even consider this call IMO.

If you figured you were against overcards you're not even a strong favorite if you call this all in.

Also limping UTG 5 handed really sends out a signal i feel.

Gholimoli

ChipLdr wrote:

Sorry G but I think you played this poorly. UTG+1 with 22 and raising with low stacks around you is tournament suicide. Even if any of the shorties had of called you then you weren't in great shape to win the pot.

But then for UTG to reraise you it smacks of a strong hand. Although you viewed the situation as getting over 4/1 to call,you really need in the region of 7/1 to even consider this call IMO.

If you figured you were against overcards you're not even a strong favorite if you call this all in.

Also limping UTG 5 handed really sends out a signal i feel.

i agree that i should have mucked and i played it bad but what you say does not make sense.
why would i need 7/1 odds?
if im against over cards im 50/50 so 4:1 is alot .
if im against over pair then i need 4.5:1 to break even an anything above that is a good bet for me.
i agree that 5 handed UTG limp smells but this player liked to limp alot.
all an all i learned my lesson after throwing it away really .

Gholimoli

sikes wrote:

with one of the short stacks in the blinds, and a limper utg who will do a lot of damage to you, this is an easy fold for me at this stage.

i would have gladly taken my chances againt the short stacks with this hand.

sikes

Gholimoli wrote:

i would have gladly taken my chances againt the short stacks with this hand.

but the shortstack could push, figuring his push will get him 3:1, meaning the limper then is getting the odds to call with any pair and any overcard, you are then faced with a tough choice on the flop when over card comes.

Gholimoli

sikes wrote:

but the shortstack could push meaning the limper then is getting the odds to call with any pair and any overcard, you are then faced with a tough choice on the flop when over card comes.

if UTG flat calls then i would push,if he pushes then im getting monster odds.

sikes

Gholimoli wrote:

if UTG flat calls then i would push,if he pushes then im getting monster odds.

so say sb calls (allin) and utg calls, you are then pushing with 22 on any board?

White Knight

I think a min raise (8k) would have been sufficient here. You are indicating you are pot committed to a smalstack push (10k-12k) and are committing just enough to get a view on what the BB may have and can re-evaluate if BB does push.

I agree with getting your chips in 1st in the pot was the right thing to do considering the table and bubble but the BB imo was only playing big hands preflop?

sikes

White Knight wrote:

I think a min raise (8k) would have been sufficient here. You are indicating you are pot committed to a smalstack push (10k-12k) and are committing just enough to get a view on what the BB may have and can re-evaluate if BB does push.

I agree with getting your chips in 1st in the pot was the right thing to do considering the table and bubble but the BB imo was only playing big hands preflop?

its utg who limps here with 28k.

Gholimoli

White Knight wrote:

I think a min raise (8k) would have been sufficient here. You are indicating you are pot committed to a smalstack push (10k-12k) and are committing just enough to get a view on what the BB may have and can re-evaluate if BB does push.

I agree with getting your chips in 1st in the pot was the right thing to do considering the table and bubble but the BB imo was only playing big hands preflop?

i mis raise would achieve nothing IMO here execpt me puting 8K of my stack in with a hand that plays very bad post flop .i would also be giving very good odds to UTG and and BB.
if i min raised here BB would have to call 4K which he woukld have been mad not to and also UTG would have deffo called with any two cards that he called in the first place.then i would have been left plaing a big pot with 22 against two others .thats not good.
my mistake was to play this in the first place.
if i wanted to play it i suppose limping for set value would not have been to horrible either.
if i wanted to raise it as Rob said i should have pushed.

White Knight

yeah i was confused with utg/BB stack sizes. sorry!

fold preflop :rolleyes: with your stack and table profile you can easily outplay with less marginal hands than this where you are in a race at best.

ianmc38

I may open raise but UTG limp short handed stinks of a monster. Fold the ducks every time.

careca

ianmc38 wrote:

I may open raise but UTG limp short handed stinks of a monster. Fold the ducks every time.

got there before me ian. exactly my thinking (and its not results orientated). i would have no problems raising with this hand and taking on the short stacks if UTG had folded. UTG limp or min-raise = danger.

RoundTower

If it's not just wishful thinking, and UTG really is a moron who will limp Ax suited here then I push when it gets to me. As played you have to call the all in.

DeVore

In all honesty G, I thought you played it badly. I was quite surprised to see you turn over 22 but then I hadnt really watched the table closely I didnt know your opponent (who did seem LAG). I wouldnt have wanted to call all in with 22 given that it pretty much would end your tournament if you lost what you HOPED would be a race. If you were short stacked and wanted to take a double up shot then ok, I've done that before but I didnt like the play in that situation.

Interestingly you chose this hand to examine rather then the hand against Mike which I would really like to hear more from you on! Its a good sign though that you wanted to examine the bad play you made, not the great call. How *did* you call Mike's all in? I was sure he was weak too but that was some call on that board with your holding.

DeV.

Gholimoli

DeVore wrote:

In all honesty G, I thought you played it badly. I was quite surprised to see you turn over 22 but then I hadnt really watched the table closely I didnt know your opponent (who did seem LAG). I wouldnt have wanted to call all in with 22 given that it pretty much would end your tournament if you lost what you HOPED would be a race. If you were short stacked and wanted to take a double up shot then ok, I've done that before but I didnt like the play in that situation.

Interestingly you chose this hand to examine rather then the hand against Mike which I would really like to hear more from you on! Its a good sign though that you wanted to examine the bad play you made, not the great call. How *did* you call Mike's all in? I was sure he was weak too but that was some call on that board with your holding.

DeV.

When I think it over I am almost shocked that I let my tourney end with this hand. especially when as you said there was no need and I was quite comfortable and the fact that 2 out of the 5 remaining players had very low stacks .horrible horrible play by me which ended another promising chance for good money but as I usually say lesson learned.
Now to the hand against Mike:
Not too sure about the stacks but I remember it roughly so here it goes:
I think I just had Mike covered and I say that because I think his all in was another 6K or 8K if im not mistaken (Mike or anyone who remembers can correct me if im wrong).
Blinds 500/1000(or it could have been 400/800):
Button limps.
I complete from SB with A8.
BB checks .
Flop (3K)
Q 8 2 with two clubs.
I check,Mike checks button checks.
Turn : 2
I check,mike bets 3K button folds.
Now I was thinking Mike would have ago at this flop with the second 2 appearing. I didn’t think he had the Q .i thought if he had the Q he would bet the flop trying to take it there as there was a flush draw possible .so at this stage I was thinking he either has the two or is on a bluff.
River (9K) :river was a club smaller than 8 .
I checked and Mike went all in very very quickly in for another 8K.
From his point of view I called his turn bet so I had to have something. either the Q or the two, or the flush draw which just hit.i would have called a bet certainly with any of these hands so if mike had a flush or a set or a boat why not try to get a bit more out of it and why go all in trying to get me off the hand.
I took along time thinking before I made the call and decided that he made the move as he thought it was his only way of winning the pot.
If he had the Q he would have checked behind ,if he had the flush or the 2 he would value bet and make a smaller bet that I could call.
i think mike thought it was a fishy call by me but I thought I was a very though a good call.Mike mucked his hand and i donno what he actually had.

fuzzbox

I fold it first time around.

Hitman Actual

Gholimoli wrote:

Now to the hand against Mike: etc...

What did Mike have??

Edit:Just saw your edit!

cardshark202

If you want to play here, there is only one move......
....PUSH. Otherwise I just fold. Can't afford to do anything else with only 10BBs.

Daithio

It was a good call, I'd say Mike was just moaning because his bluff didn't work. But I might have played it a bit more aggressively beforehand.