Wrongful arrest?

अधिनायक

21 yr old female walking home alone from nightclub at 2am, passing upmarket area of the city known for street prostitution. Unmarked car with 4 men pulls up beside her, guys lean out of car and say something to her that she doesn't hear. She keeps walking. They stop the car, two of them get out and ask her to get in stating that they are police. They may or may not have flashed an ID at her, she doesn't remember. She is frightened and believes she is being abducted. She refuses to get in the car. They handcuff her and bundle her into the back. They drive her to the station and arrest her for prostituition. Her parents pick her up a few hours later. Her wrists and arms are badly bruised.

She asks a solicitor for advice the next day. He advises that there is no point in pursuing the matter as there is no effective Garda complaints system and his experience is that the police tend to conspire in these situations to present her in a bad light.

Was this the correct advice?

hullaballoo

Is this a hypothetical situation or are you looking for legal advice?

अधिनायक

purely hypothetical

civdef

They drive her to the station and arrest her for prostituition.

What's the offence in question? Soliciting or Loitering?

CRIMINAL LAW (SEXUAL OFFENCES) ACT, 1993

Soliciting or importuning for purposes of prostitution.

7.—A person who in a street or public place solicits or importunes another person or other persons for the purposes of prostitution shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding—

( a ) £250, in the case of a first conviction,

( b ) £500, in the case of a second conviction, or

( c ) £500 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 4 weeks or to both, in the case of a third or any subsequent conviction.

1993 21 8

Loitering for purposes of prostitution.

8.—(1) A member of the Garda Síochána who has reasonable cause to suspect that a person is loitering in a street or public place in order to solicit or importune another person or other persons for the purposes of prostitution may direct that person to leave immediately that street or public place.

(2) A person who without reasonable cause fails to comply with a direction under subsection (1) shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding—

( a ) £250, in the case of a first conviction,

( b ) £500, in the case of a second conviction, or

( c ) £500 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 4 weeks or to both, in the case of a third or any subsequent conviction.

(3) In this section "loitering" includes loitering in a motor vehicle.

अधिनायक

loitering

Trojan911

अधिनाय&#2325 wrote:

21 yr old female walking home alone from nightclub at 2am, passing upmarket area of the city known for street prostitution. Unmarked car with 4 men pulls up beside her, guys lean out of car and say something to her that she doesn't hear. She keeps walking. They stop the car, two of them get out and ask her to get in stating that they are police. They may or may not have flashed an ID at her, she doesn't remember. She is frightened and believes she is being abducted. She refuses to get in the car. They handcuff her and bundle her into the back. They drive her to the station and arrest her for prostituition. Her parents pick her up a few hours later. Her wrists and arms are badly bruised.

She asks a solicitor for advice the next day. He advises that there is no point in pursuing the matter as there is no effective Garda complaints system and his experience is that the police tend to conspire in these situations to present her in a bad light.

Was this the correct advice?

In my opinion, and that is only going by what is typed above, it appears the person concerned may have been assaulted, unlawfully detained and if charged to appear in court, malicious prosecution. That is, of course, if that is what happened.

TJ911...

अधिनायक

My question is whether you agree that it would be pointless to pursue a complaint in a case like this given the current complaint structures.

Trojan911

अधिनाय&#2325 wrote:

My question is whether you agree that it would be pointless to pursue a complaint in a case like this given the current complaint structures.

No, in my opinion, there appears to be an injustice here and the solicitor should have acted upon the directions of the complainant (open to correction on that one as I am not a solicitor). Try another two solicitors and then compare out of the three on what they say.


TJ911...

Our man in Havana

I have been talking to several lawyers about this and their united opinion is that the current garda complaints structure is lacking and would advise no one to bother making a complaint as there is no confidence in the current system. You would just be wasting your time.

अधिनायक

That's the same opinion I've heard from a number of solicitors and barristers I've talked to. Does anyone disagree? The impression I get it is that in a case like this it is possible that a number of gardai will make corroborating statements to the effect that the victim assaulted the gardai first. This could be a very distressing process for someone who has already been wronged.

dermot_sheehan

अधिनाय&#2325 wrote:

21 yr old female walking home alone from nightclub at 2am, passing upmarket area of the city known for street prostitution. Unmarked car with 4 men pulls up beside her, guys lean out of car and say something to her that she doesn't hear. She keeps walking. They stop the car, two of them get out and ask her to get in stating that they are police. They may or may not have flashed an ID at her, she doesn't remember. She is frightened and believes she is being abducted. She refuses to get in the car. They handcuff her and bundle her into the back. They drive her to the station and arrest her for prostituition. Her parents pick her up a few hours later. Her wrists and arms are badly bruised.

She asks a solicitor for advice the next day. He advises that there is no point in pursuing the matter as there is no effective Garda complaints system and his experience is that the police tend to conspire in these situations to present her in a bad light.

Was this the correct advice?

In any case there is a requirement to prove malice for a false arrest/malicious prosecution. It would be hard in these set of circumstances to prove an absence of good faith.

Our man in Havana

Has the person actually being charged with any criminal offence?
If the person was injured in the manner described, would the member in charge not have called a doctor and this noted in the custody record?

अधिनायक

It is a hypothetical case. The person was not charged. No doctor was called.

Turner

Did she ask for a doctor.

Bruising or marks which occur from handcuffs wouldnt really warrant a doctor.


When you say they flashed an id card she but she cant remember if they did. Was she intoxicated ?

When you say they handcuff her and bundle her in the car do you mean they handcuffed her and forced her into the car, or handcuffed her and placed her in the car.

Were they in uniform ?

You say she was handcuffed at the scene and then arrested her at the station. You cant be arrested in a garda station. Following arrest you have to be brought to a garda station.


Just a few points you should clarify.

Eru

This situation has way too many holes to give a reasonable answer however they had no power of arrest based on the original post.

And its soooooooooo looking for legal advise its not even funny!

Crash

Oddly enough Karlitosway, i think thats the first time i've ever agreed with an ENTIRETY of a post of yours - usually its one part or another, but here you're dead on

besty

Karlitosway1978 wrote:

And its soooooooooo looking for legal advise its not even funny!

I would tend to agree with Karlitosway. Some of the phrasiology being used in this thread is dangerously close to constituting advice so just be careful in your choice of language guys!

For example:

Bond-007 wrote:

I have been talking to several lawyers about this and their united opinion is that the current garda complaints structure is lacking and would advise no one to bother making a complaint as there is no confidence in the current system. You would just be wasting your time.

Cheers,
Besty

Our man in Havana

My bad there. Sorry

besty

Bond-007 wrote:

My bad there. Sorry

Not to worry, just need to keep our noses clean in this thread in particular!

Victor

I got the impression that generally the Garda did not prosecute prostitutes, seeing them as victims or potential victims rather than criminals.

Chief--- wrote:

You say she was handcuffed at the scene and then arrested her at the station. You cant be arrested in a garda station. Following arrest you have to be brought to a garda station.

Accidents have been known to happen.

Turner

Victor wrote:

I got the impression that generally the Garda did not prosecute prostitutes, seeing them as victims or potential victims rather than criminals.

True.

Same as junkies. Thats why gardai dont take thier "works" off them.

If they did they would just go and hold up a chemist by sucking blood from their gums and threatening the staff with a spit full of blood.

They have pity on them more than anything else.

Remember the case of the junkies shooting up in temple bar and the gardai did nothing.

Approaching a junkie and demanding the most important thing in the world to them and the only thing they think they need to feel normal is not a good idea.