[Article] Outsourcing move expected to cut driving test queues

Victor

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/front/2006/0515/1299612699HM1DRIVING.html

Outsourcing move expected to cut driving test queues

A breakthrough is imminent in the dispute over Government plans to outsource driving tests, paving the way for queues to be reduced from the second half of this year, writes Chris Dooley, Industry and Employment Correspondent.

Driver testers agreed at a meeting in Athlone organised by their union, Impact, at the weekend, to give "serious consideration" to new proposals that could allow 40,000 tests to be outsourced as a one-off measure.

A deal is expected to be finalised after talks beginning this week involving Impact, the Department of Transport and a third-party mediator.

It is anticipated that the parties will agree a formula designed to cut waiting times for driving tests to between nine and 10 weeks by 2007. The current waiting time is up to a year at some centres.

Part of the formula could include outsourcing, provided driving testers' concerns about job security are satisfactorily addressed.

Alternative proposals, such as the hiring of additional contract staff, will also be tabled at the talks by Impact.

The Government had hoped to significantly reduce the current waiting list for driving tests of nearly 140,000 by outsourcing 40,000 tests to a private company.

Unions opposed the measure, however, on the basis that core Civil Service work could not be outsourced under the terms of the partnership agreement, Sustaining Progress. Their position was upheld in March by the Civil Service Arbitration Board, which ruled that driver-testing was core work and could only be outsourced by agreement with unions.

The board also, however, told the parties they should re-engage to try to find a solution and that all options should be considered.

It is in this context that Impact has moved to hold new discussions with the department.

The move is also being seen as a recognition by the union of the important road safety issues involved. It is also understood that there has been a surge in applications for driving tests in recent weeks, arising from increased publicity about road safety matters.

In light of that, Impact is prepared to concede that proposals it has put forward to address the backlog in applications may not be sufficient to solve the problem.

The union has argued that the number of tests being conducted could increase by 50,000 a year if its suggestions, such as the hiring of contract staff and redeployment of other civil servants, were implemented. Labour Relations Commission chief executive Kieran Mulvey has been mentioned as a possible mediator in the talks expected to begin this week.

It is envisaged that the mediator would have a role in overseeing the implementation of any agreement on outsourcing, and would report back to the parties on whether it was meeting its objectives.

Any agreement reached would probably come into effect when Sustaining Progress expires for the public sector at the end of June.

Linoge

Outsourcing just seems to be a short term solution to a long term problem. If 40,000 tests are carried out on contract that just means that there won't be as much of a back log for maybe a few years.

What we need to do is increase the number of testers full stop.

IMO the government is subsidising the insurance industry through the higher prices paid by provisional license holders.:mad:

Louisiana

i think unions in Ireland have way too much power. people are being killed on our roads because drivers are entitled to drive around for years without having to prove they even took 1 lesson. the whole licensing system has to be reviewed and the unions need to be more flexible to allow this to happen.

dowlingm

driving tests and licences in Ontario are handled by the british firm Serco.

cyclopath2001

Louisiana wrote:

people are being killed on our roads because drivers are entitled to drive around for years without having to prove they even took

That's not a product of a union decision, that's government policy.

Why are the Gardai not prosecuting unaccompanied provisional license holders?It was the government that decided to allow thousands of drivers to have full licences wihout having to pass the test.

Part of the reason for the backlog is the high failure rate, even though the test is quite basic & easy. This stems from poorly trained drivers. This comes from the fact that there has been no requirement to take lessons & the instructors themselves are not regulated.

Badly prepared drivers are wasting the time of the testers.

The current impasse is caused by the government trying to pursue its idealogical privitise/outsource agenda rather than putting lives first.

Blaming the unions is the government's way of avoiding responsibility.

Linoge

cyclopath2001 wrote:

That's not a product of a union decision, that's government policy.

Why are the Gardai not prosecuting unaccompanied provisional license holders?It was the government that decided to allow thousands of drivers to have full licences wihout having to pass the test.

Part of the reason for the backlog is the high failure rate, even though the test is quite basic & easy. This stems from poorly trained drivers. This comes from the fact that there has been no requirement to take lessons & the instructors themselves are not regulated.

Badly prepared drivers are wasting the time of the testers.

The current impasse is caused by the government trying to pursue its idealogical privitise/outsource agenda rather than putting lives first.

Blaming the unions is the government's way of avoiding responsibility.

So you think that 140,000 people should be afraid to step into their car for fear of being prosecuted when they may well have no other means of getting to work and all the while have to wait for a year to sit the test??

What was that about the full licenses without having to do the test? I think that went out in the 60's?

High failure rate, poorly trained drivers etc. have you got figures or is this just a guess?

The instructors don't need to be regulated, you need to pass a test before you are given your license.

A requirement to take lessons is a good idea.

I agree with you in some respects, privatisation should only be looked at if the current situation is seen to be inefficient which I do not think is the case. There are simply not enough test centers and testers.

Btw, "basic and easy" is your own personal opinion. I think that you will find that the majority of people will disagree with you...

John R

Linoge wrote:

So you think that 140,000 people should be afraid to step into their car for fear of being prosecuted when they may well have no other means of getting to work and all the while have to wait for a year to sit the test??

So you think that the convenience of some people is more important than the safety of the public at large? That it may make getting to work more difficult is justification for letting completely untrained people out with 2 ton killing machines?

Linoge wrote:

What was that about the full licenses without having to do the test? I think that went out in the 60's?

Linoge wrote:

High failure rate, poorly trained drivers etc. have you got figures or is this just a guess?

Average pass rate is 53.6%

http://www.drivingtest.ie/drivingtest/HTMLContent/frameset.html

What other reason for the high failure rate is there other than poor training?

Linoge wrote:

The instructors don't need to be regulated, you need to pass a test before you are given your license.

Being able to drive and being able to teach others to drive are two different skills, there should be a statutory training course for instructors and some oversight to ensure they keep to the standards.

Linoge wrote:

I agree with you in some respects, privatisation should only be looked at if the current situation is seen to be inefficient which I do not think is the case. There are simply not enough test centers and testers.

Privatisation of the whole system is one thing but setting up (at great expense) a company just for a short period and then back to business as usual is simply stupid.

Linoge wrote:

Btw, "basic and easy" is your own personal opinion. I think that you will find that the majority of people will disagree with you...

That is because most people think that being able to vaguely point a car in the right direction and only having minor dings and regular near-misses is good enough.
In comparison with tests in most other European countries ours is basic and easy, for the majority of tests there isn't even a requirement to drive above 30 mph.

cyclopath2001

Linoge wrote:

Btw, "basic and easy" is your own personal opinion. I think that you will find that the majority of people will disagree with you...

Other questions have been well answered.

Yes, I thought the test was very basic & very easy. I passed first time.

Yet, just today, I was cycling in a cycle lane in Dublin City. Motorist overtakes me & then cuts in front of me stopping in the cycle lane to join a queue of left-turning traffic, not indicating. I was blocked in and could not proceed straight.

Here's a little test for you: how many laws did this full-license-holding motorist break in just 10 seconds?

Linoge

John R wrote:

So you think that the convenience of some people is more important than the safety of the public at large? That it may make getting to work more difficult is justification for letting completely untrained people out with 2 ton killing machines?

Unfortunately yes. As cylclopath has pointed out below, fully licensed drivers are can be an absolute menace, and IMO will actually pull off more dangerous maneuvures(sp?) because they are more confident.

John R wrote:

Average pass rate is 53.6%

http://www.drivingtest.ie/drivingtest/HTMLContent/frameset.html

What other reason for the high failure rate is there other than poor training?

I wasn't disputing it, I literally wanted to know. There is no other explanation than bad training ie. not getting lessons

John R wrote:

Being able to drive and being able to teach others to drive are two different skills, there should be a statutory training course for instructors and some oversight to ensure they keep to the standards.

Standards are kept the same way as anything else in the market. If someone finds that you are a bad instructor, they will not go back to you and tell about 10 people that you were bad. What more "regulation" can you ask for?

Besides that, if someone is a bad instructor the candidate won't pass their test, simple as.

John R wrote:

Privatisation of the whole system is one thing but setting up (at great expense) a company just for a short period and then back to business as usual is simply stupid.

I hope that this isn't directed at me where you are disagreeing because you think that I have taken a view. If you read my previous posts you will see that.

John R wrote:

In comparison with tests in most other European countries ours is basic and easy, for the majority of tests there isn't even a requirement to drive above 30 mph.

Well with a 46.4% failure rate I don't think that you are too right about that. Thats not to say that we shouldn't make the test more in depth with a requirement of lessons etc like in Germany.

Linoge

cyclopath2001 wrote:

Here's a little test for you: how many laws did this full-license-holding motorist break in just 10 seconds?

Do you think that he was not aware that he was breaking the law?

cyclopath2001

Linoge wrote:

Do you think that he was not aware that he was breaking the law?

Either unaware or couldn't care less. It was a woman driver, I tried to make eye contact (for safety) before I squeezed through the small gap she'd left, but she was too busy on the phone at the time.

From what I've seen, even an elite private-sector testing firm will not clear the backlog because so many drivers (not all, but many) don't take the task seriously and have no instinct for correct behaviour on the road. The system is clogged up by too many drivers who are not fit to take the test. Out-sourcing will not change this, it'll just mean that they'll be tested (and failed) more often.

Also, there's no point in giving people licences to drive on the road unlesss we're also ready to take incompetant & selfish drivers off the road. Unfortunately, that's not going to win votes as easily as 'clearing the backlog'.