Blueface and INEX

tigerbalm

I thought that Blueface were connected to INEX? Well it seems they are but -- but the unnecessary bits are!!

When I traceroute www.blueface.ie (the companies website) I get:

~$ traceroute www.blueface.ie
traceroute to www.blueface.ie (82.195.148.216), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets
 1  192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1)  1.691 ms  0.976 ms  0.814 ms
 2  10.189.40.1 (10.189.40.1)  28.128 ms  22.761 ms  33.348 ms
 3  dbln-cam-1b-ge03-104.inet.ntl.com (82.9.147.45)  15.712 ms  13.044 ms  24.517 ms
 4  dbln-t2core-b-ge-210-0.inet.ntl.com (82.9.145.129)  9.856 ms  34.114 ms  38.200 ms
 5  dbln-bb-b-ae1-0.inet.ntl.com (213.105.174.57)  10.227 ms  34.744 ms  16.161 ms
 6  inex-ic-1-pos000.inet.ntl.com (213.105.174.94)  34.490 ms  21.380 ms  20.145 ms
 7  fe0-1-0.core1.hba.dub.stisp.net (193.242.111.24)  32.575 ms  41.687 ms  70.962 ms
 8  ge0-3-0-100.edge1.tcy.dub.stisp.net (84.203.130.94)  50.261 ms  20.518 ms  58.521 ms
 9  84.203.138.118 (84.203.138.118)  126.539 ms  62.584 ms  20.679 ms
10  82.195.143.3 (82.195.143.3)  22.524 ms  29.019 ms  25.814 ms
11  www.blueface.ie (82.195.148.216)  26.546 ms  36.869 ms  27.130 ms

All very nice and I am prombly routed along the NTL->INEX->BLUEFACE route.

However, if I traceroute sip.blueface.ie I get:

~$ traceroute sip.blueface.ie
traceroute to sip.blueface.ie (213.168.225.133), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets
 1  192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1)  4.624 ms  0.956 ms  0.802 ms
 2  10.189.40.1 (10.189.40.1)  10.929 ms  40.075 ms  15.445 ms
 3  dbln-cam-1b-ge03-104.inet.ntl.com (82.9.147.45)  33.303 ms  28.546 ms  19.555 ms
 4  dbln-t2core-b-ge-210-0.inet.ntl.com (82.9.145.129)  24.762 ms  35.289 ms  26.649 ms
 5  dbln-bb-b-ae1-0.inet.ntl.com (213.105.174.57)  37.954 ms  19.217 ms  11.018 ms
 6  man-bb-b-so-500-0.inet.ntl.com (213.105.174.45)  24.973 ms  14.962 ms  17.811 ms
 7  man-bb-a-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com (62.253.187.177)  22.722 ms  33.964 ms  31.928 ms
 8  212.187.137.1 (212.187.137.1)  51.730 ms  43.175 ms  59.598 ms
 9  so-6-0-0.mp2.manchesteruk1.level3.net (4.68.113.114)  99.457 ms  34.950 ms  27.679 ms
10  ae-1-0.bbr2.london1.level3.net (212.187.128.57)  53.301 ms  51.883 ms  57.082 ms
11  so-2-0.hsa2.dublin1.level3.net (4.68.128.118)  65.747 ms  86.084 ms  43.236 ms
12  213.242.106.14 (213.242.106.14)  38.806 ms  38.194 ms  36.118 ms
13  hippo.blueface.ie (213.168.225.133)  37.449 ms  55.845 ms  64.609 ms

Now this bounces all around the UK before I get to blueface. So even though I can have a efficent route to their website I get a crappy route to their VoIP server which would seriously impact the voice call quality.

Ah well, maybe it's being worked on.

-- tigerbalm

cgarvey

Blueface and NTL don't peer at INEX. Both are in INEX, but each member of INEX peers with each other, on an optional basis. Blueface do peer with others in INEX (eircom, for example), just not NTL.. https://www.inex.ie/technical/peeringmatrix

tigerbalm

That must explain it then! They must have host their website at an ISP the peers in INEX and NTL -- and host their VoIP infrastructure themselves. Makes no sense though because NTL is one of the few broadband providers that can make VoIP a real alternative -- there is no reliance on a POTS phone line. I'll bring this up with Blueface themselves because it changes things for me.

-- tigerbalm

sirlinux

Blueface dont seem to have their sip server routed through INEX yet.

2 21 ms 17 ms 19 ms b-ras1.chf.cork.eircom.net [159.134.155.21]
3 17 ms 17 ms 17 ms ge15-2.corea.chf.cork.eircom.net [83.71.114.65]

4 34 ms 709 ms 84 ms 83.71.112.198
5 34 ms 34 ms 34 ms sl-gw22-lon-2-3.sprintlink.net [213.206.156.209]

6 35 ms 34 ms 34 ms 213.206.128.105
7 34 ms 35 ms 36 ms sl-bb20-lon-3-0.sprintlink.net [213.206.129.150]

8 48 ms 47 ms 49 ms sl-bb20-dub-1-1.sprintlink.net [213.206.129.115]

9 49 ms 47 ms 50 ms sl-gw1-dub-0-0-0.sprintlink.net [80.93.0.67]
10 48 ms 47 ms 49 ms sle-telec2-3-0.sprintlink.net [80.93.1.98]
11 49 ms 49 ms 49 ms hippo.blueface.ie [213.168.225.133]

Trace complete.

Blaster99

As was explained in another thread, as much as it is an explanation, Blueface has a test server at sip2.blueface.ie that's connected to INEX. I don't think you can make calls through it.

www.blueface.ie is hosted by Hosting365, that's why it's on INEX.

aaronc

tigerbalm wrote:

I thought that Blueface were connected to INEX? Well it seems they are but -- but the unnecessary bits are!!

We are connected to INEX and are finalising our network to take full advantage of it. We are halfway there at the moment and all outgoing PSTN calls placed through our network will use an INEX connected server so if your ISP is peered with us in INEX then your outgoing calls have been using INEX since Friday night (14 May 2006).

Tracing to sip.blueface.ie does not tell the full story since when you place a SIP call the IP address of the server that will be used for the media, voice in this case, is separate from the signalling. To verify the path your voice traffic is taking you would either need to run a packet capture to see where the RTP (protocol carrying the voice data packets) destination address is or you could look at the payload of a SIP INVITE response and look at the IP address contained in it's body. I realise this is all technical mumbo jumbo in a lot of cases but if you're interested the network we are using for our media servers is 194.213.29.0/24 and the you can run a trace to 194.213.29.1 to test your route.

In the cases of a lot of ISPs I am still a bit skeptcial about how much of a difference INEX will make for VoIP call quality to any provider. I have seen some cases where there is a big difference between an ISP's connection quality to an INEX connected server and an internet connected server but I also found that the profile is just as likely to change and both connections deteriorate at different times presumbably depending on traffic.

I've been rambling on a bit about it on the Blueface forum if you're really interested and there is also a network test application you can download to test whether you do get a better VoIP connection with INEX or not.

http://forums.blueface.ie/forumdisplay.php?f=5

P.S. There is a hold up on the NTL peering agreement being put in place due to a capacity issue but at this stage I have personally run and seen a substantial number of network tests to the Blue Face servers from NTL's network and apart from a very small number of anomalies, typically caused by something on the network the test is being run from, the quality of the connections are as good as they get and if the future peering with INEX does result in any improvement for NTL connections it will be very marginal.

Aaron
Blueface

Blaster99

It might be useful to understand that those of us who have traffic shaping setup need to know where the RTP connections terminate. You should probably stick this info on your web site and even announce changes to your customers.

If I make an internal call with Blueface, do the RTP connections terminate at 194.213.29.0/24 also or is there another set of addresses I need to prioritise traffic to?

I was incidentally previously told (by Blueface support) that the RTP connections terminated at sip.blueface.ie. I'm guessing from this that that was probably not correct?

aaronc

Blaster99 wrote:

If I make an internal call with Blueface, do the RTP connections terminate at 194.213.29.0/24 also or is there another set of addresses I need to prioritise traffic to?

194.213.29.0/24
213.168.225.128/27

Blaster99 wrote:

I was incidentally previously told (by Blueface support) that the RTP connections terminated at sip.blueface.ie. I'm guessing from this that that was probably not correct?

That was correct up until Friday now the above applies.

Aaron

Blaster99

Excellent, thank you. I'm in eager anticipation of significantly improved voice quality...