Need some advice...

jesus_thats_gre

I am having a major arguemnt with a mate with regard to the law that I need some opinions on....

This is somewhat long winded so please bear with me. Myself and 3 male friends were at a popular night club in south Dublin last night. The 4 of us left the club at closing time and stood around outside the club for a period of time. At the same time, there was about 7 or 8 Gardai and 2 squad cars present in the car park of the club. I think think the car park is private.

1 member of the group went back into the club and took 2 bottles of drink out of the club. The bouncer spotted this infraction and took and the drink off him. The lad was acting alone. A few minutes after taking the drink off him, the same bouncer approached the group again and conviscated a bottle of beer that was resting on top a bin between us.

The bottle of beer was not actively being consumed by any of the three in the group but the bouncer still took it with him. The group was not nessecarily standing togther in close quarters at the this stage but were not exactly standing a large distance apart. Once member of the group obeserved what happened from a distance and feels the following was reasonable chain of events, i.e. the Garda was within his rights to approach the group.

Within 2 or 3 minutes, a Garda approached the group (I feel he approched me directly) and directed a question as us asking "what the ****ing is going on lads". Feeling he directed the question directly at me and feeling under pressure, I answered that there "was nothing going on and that I do not know what he is talking about". The Garda then turned arond and laughed towards the other Gardai. The Garda walked away from us back towards the group of Gardai and did not say another word towards us.

I feel that the garda acted inappropriately, had no right to approach me, had no right to question me, acted outside the law and basically encroached upon my civil liberties..

Do I have any basis to feel victimised and did the Garda have a right to approach us (me). I am not debating whether the Garda should have cursed (he should not have obviously) but whether the Garda was acting illegally.

Dirk Gently

Holy jasus Jesus, thought this was gonna be juicy , I think your being more idealistic than practical when talking about civil liberties and the guards.

Count yourself lucky you didn't get a hiding. Not that you deserved one but it’s not uncommon to get one anyway. Some guards are on a power trip and expecting them to behave reasonable while policing at night in the city is not a realistic view point.

I was once out with a few mates on the Southside having a few drinks. My mates all went their own way at different stages during the night. Eventually I left the pub in the early hours and headed for O’Connell Street to get a nite link or a taxi. Been a northsider with a few drinks on me in the Southside in the middle of the night my sense of direction wasn’t the best. I eventually came across two guards walking the beat and asked for directions to O’Connell Street.

The big aggressive guard asked me where I was from and when I told him he told me they were all scum in my area and told me to **** off back to the Wild West. I made the mistake of trying to be reasonable and asked him if he could simply point me in the direction of Grafton Street or temple bar as I was lost and there weren't any taxis floating around. He pinned me up against a shutter door and roughed me up a bit when the other guard pulled him off me and actually dragged his mate across the other side of the road.

The decent guard then told me to get the hell outa here as his angry guard mate was a loose cannon and would batter me if I didn’t go away. Never got any directions off them and after about half an hour wandering around I found Whelan’s on wexford street and was able to make my way from there. Wasn’t drunk or aggressive or anything, just didn’t know where I was geographically and not because I was locked and falling down drunk or anything. Don’t venture onto the Southside too often.

Another time 3 guards were sitting in an unmarked car at the top of my road. A kid about 12 or 13 flashed a bicycle lamp onto there wind screen. They threw him in the back of the car and drove him down to fields behind all the houses, gave him a good hiding and threw him out in the field covered in blood and in bits. Poor kid, although being stupid by showing off in front off his mates, hardly deserved that to happen.

Remember also getting a few slaps of a female guard in town before. In fairness on this occasion I was a bit drunk and when she was pissed off cos I couldn’t stop laughing at my mate not being able to stand up. I got one of them fits of giggles and nothing she said could make me stop so she starts belting the head of me. Have to say I didn’t really mind though. I was laughing so much while she was hitting me that I couldn’t really feel it.

Kinda liked it as well, was well turned on getting slapped around by a big 6 foot female guard knowing there’s nothing I could do about it. Kinky! Anyway false names were given and we went on our merry way.

Moral of the story, if its after dark and the guards are around, then stay outa their way cos they just see everyone young person as scum if your on the street in the city at that time. What you experienced was down right good manners from the guards.

hullaballoo

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

I am having a major arguemnt with a mate with regard to the law that I need some opinions on....

This is somewhat long winded so please bear with me. Myself and 3 male friends were at a popular night club in south Dublin last night. The 4 of us left the club at closing time and stood around outside the club for a period of time. At the same time, there was about 7 or 8 Gardai and 2 squad cars present in the car park of the club. I think think the car park is private.

1 member of the group went back into the club and took 2 bottles of drink out of the club. The bouncer spotted this infraction and took and the drink off him. The lad was acting alone. A few minutes after taking the drink off him, the same bouncer approached the group again and conviscated a bottle of beer that was resting on top a bin between us.

The bottle of beer was not actively being consumed by any of the three in the group but the bouncer still took it with him. The group was not nessecarily standing togther in close quarters at the this stage but were not exactly standing a large distance apart. Once member of the group obeserved what happened from a distance and feels the following was reasonable chain of events, i.e. the Garda was within his rights to approach the group.

Within 2 or 3 minutes, a Garda approached the group (I feel he approched me directly) and directed a question as us asking "what the ****ing is going on lads". Feeling he directed the question directly at me and feeling under pressure, I answered that there "was nothing going on and that I do not know what he is talking about". The Garda then turned arond and laughed towards the other Gardai. The Garda walked away from us back towards the group of Gardai and did not say another word towards us.

I feel that the garda acted inappropriately, had no right to approach me, had no right to question me, acted outside the law and basically encroached upon my civil liberties..

Do I have any basis to feel victimised and did the Garda have a right to approach us (me). I am not debating whether the Garda should have cursed (he should not have obviously) but whether the Garda was acting illegally.

That is dangerously close to looking for legal advice. I sincerely hope you're not. It would be better to be slightly less ambiguous about it in future anyway.

dermot_sheehan

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

I am having a major arguemnt with a mate with regard to the law that I need some opinions on....

This is somewhat long winded so please bear with me. Myself and 3 male friends were at a popular night club in south Dublin last night. The 4 of us left the club at closing time and stood around outside the club for a period of time. At the same time, there was about 7 or 8 Gardai and 2 squad cars present in the car park of the club. I think think the car park is private.

1 member of the group went back into the club and took 2 bottles of drink out of the club. The bouncer spotted this infraction and took and the drink off him. The lad was acting alone. A few minutes after taking the drink off him, the same bouncer approached the group again and conviscated a bottle of beer that was resting on top a bin between us.

The bottle of beer was not actively being consumed by any of the three in the group but the bouncer still took it with him. The group was not nessecarily standing togther in close quarters at the this stage but were not exactly standing a large distance apart. Once member of the group obeserved what happened from a distance and feels the following was reasonable chain of events, i.e. the Garda was within his rights to approach the group.

Within 2 or 3 minutes, a Garda approached the group (I feel he approched me directly) and directed a question as us asking "what the ****ing is going on lads". Feeling he directed the question directly at me and feeling under pressure, I answered that there "was nothing going on and that I do not know what he is talking about". The Garda then turned arond and laughed towards the other Gardai. The Garda walked away from us back towards the group of Gardai and did not say another word towards us.

I feel that the garda acted inappropriately, had no right to approach me, had no right to question me, acted outside the law and basically encroached upon my civil liberties..

Do I have any basis to feel victimised and did the Garda have a right to approach us (me). I am not debating whether the Garda should have cursed (he should not have obviously) but whether the Garda was acting illegally.

Any person can go up to you on the street and ask you whats happening. This does not infringe your civil liberties in any way. Being a guard he could have ordered you to leave the area under the Public Order act 1994 but apparently he did not do so.

jesus_thats_gre

hullaballoo wrote:

That is dangerously close to looking for legal advice. I sincerely hope you're not. It would be better to be slightly less ambiguous about it in future anyway.

100% not looking for legal advise. It was actually my mate who was approached and I am arguing that the Garda was perfectly entitled to approach the group considering the chain of events. My mate is adament that the Garda approach was infringing on his right in some way.

Trojan911

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

Do I have any basis to feel victimised and did the Garda have a right to approach us (me). I am not debating whether the Garda should have cursed (he should not have obviously) but whether the Garda was acting illegally.

My opinion is ....

The Gardaí can approach anyone, irrespective of why the approach, to speak to a person. If that person is not being detained for any reason then that person is entitled to walk away.

If, like you say above, there was a reason then you answered the question and the officer left. Ok, the swearing was not professional & you could have taken the officers shoulder number & made a complaint for incivility.


TJ911...

Our man in Havana

If you walked away from a Garda, could you be arrested for failure to comply?

Trojan911

Bond-007 wrote:

If you walked away from a Garda, could you be arrested for failure to comply?

Failure to comply with what? If your not being detained for a reason there is no need to stay around.


TJ911...

frobisher

This post brings 2 nouns to mind. One is storm, the other is teacup.

jesus_thats_gre

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

I feel that the garda acted inappropriately, had no right to approach me, had no right to question me, acted outside the law and basically encroached upon my

You really have nothing to complain about. If the Garda said 'how's it going' would you think it inappropriate? Gardai are entitled to ask questions. Technically perhaps you could have declined to answer him, but life is way too short.

*Lolly*

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

Do I have any basis to feel victimised and did the Garda have a right to approach us (me). I am not debating whether the Garda should have cursed (he should not have obviously) but whether the Garda was acting illegally.

Sorry dear but Calm the feck down... Your over-reacting bigtime over one silly little gards behaviour you should see what we have to put up with down here in kerry... QUite a different situation as most of our involvement with the guards is over the car we drive but their attitude is disgraceful. They may be the ones wearing the caps and badges but thats no excuse to treat us like farm animals. My advice to you is...
The next time something like this happens, take the gards name and relevant details and take it as far as you wanna go.
Personally id take it to the superintendent.
But for now just try and forget it and put it down to garda's lack of manners and sheer ignorance

If in doubt... Try the Cizitenz Advice Bureau

jesus_thats_gre

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

It was actually my mate who was approached and I am arguing that the Garda was perfectly entitled to approach the group considering the chain of events. My mate is adament that the Garda approach was infringing on his right in some way.

Just in case you didn't see this, ^^^^^^^

Eru

This is a pathetic post by a poor sheltered person.

A, Is this the first time you heard a bad word?

B, Im trying to figure out the word, no curses fit that sentence properly.

C, The judges rules.

D, You were commiting an offence.

E, Perhaps the Garda was more interested in the bouncer than you.

F, If this is the worst thing that has ever happened too you you have had a charmed life indeed.

G, If the bottle was not owned by any person within your group (and yes, you were in a group, you dont have to be linking arms for this) then whats the problem about taking the drinks from you?

H, This is asking for legal advice. what else could it be?

seamus

Yeah, your mate is being studenty idealistic socialist over-reacting. The Gardai saw that there was some sort of negative interactions between yourselves and the bouncers after closing time. Since you're likely to have drink taken, you're likely to be the agitators in any negative events, therefore they saw fit to check out what was going on, and dead right too.

If anything, I'd criticise the Gardai for not questioning ye further or telling you to move on.