Silly question about Dublin airport...

Chris_533976

This has been bugging me for a few days but it probobly irrelevant.

Ok they're extending the runway, arent they.

By any chance will the new runway be able to accomodate the Airbus A380? I wouldnt have thought Dublin airport would need an aircraft so big but while they were extending the runway it I thought they might as well future-proof.

Any ideas?

aphex™

Yeah I'm not sure if they got planning permissing or if it was changed but Aer Rianta originally asked for permission for a runway which would be long enough for the A380. Even though it would hardly every fly here they thought. Aer Lingus is thinking about getting one though.

The A380 can land at Shannon tho.

Litcagral

Another factor about the A380 is it's weight and the possible damage to 'ordinary' runways caused by it's initial impact on landing.

Victor

It will be able to use Dublin. However, they are only putting in the runway length and width (45m) for the moment.

When A380 services are likely to be scheduled they will need to add another two 7.5m wide sections for those times when then "don't land straight", making the runway 60m wide.

I understand they want to get the northern runway operational first, do some adjustments and refurbishing to the southern runway and then they would expand the northern runway. There is space to extend the southern runway, but I'm not sure if they are planning that in the immediate future.

Chris_533976

Thanks

Yeah I doubt they'd ever need to use them here. Good to hear that Shannon can take them tho. Interesting. Cork would never need them I guess.

/me hopes that someday they'll bring the Antonov 225 over here... bigger than the A380 that thing is

bazzer06

Isn't there an issue with altering the actual terminal facilities aswell? I was under the impression that current bays can't fit the airbus.

peter1892

bazzer06 wrote:

Isn't there an issue with altering the actual terminal facilities aswell? I was under the impression that current bays can't fit the airbus.

Probably - LHR have had to build a new pier to accomodate the A380, as Dublin won't be handling A380 flights (well not initialy) there's not much point in doing so now. Maybe in the future they might build facilities to deal with it.

Aer Lingus is thinking about getting one though

They'd be better off thinking about ordering new 330's or even switching to 777's! (IMO).

BuffyBot

Aer Lingus is thinking about getting one though

They aren't thinking about A380's. Further A330's and possibly A350's ..but they seperate type of plane, which are/will be nowhere near as big as an A380.

darkman2

On a different note does anyone know when the full architectural plans for the second terminal will be unveiled?:rolleyes:

Victor

Probably not until they apply for planning permission.

darkman2

Victor wrote:

Probably not until they apply for planning permission.

Hi Victor,

Surely we would know before they actually applied. We knew what the Lansdowne rd stadium would look like before they seeked planning permission. I take it they are putting in the application soon as they want it finished by 2009 Cant see many objections - hopefully apart from Corballis house having to be demolished.

Lennoxschips

Another factor about the A380 is it's weight and the possible damage to 'ordinary' runways caused by it's initial impact on landing.

Airbus thought of all of this. The A380 has way more wheels than a 747, meaning that the extra weight is distributed so that it has a similiar weight footprint per wheel as the 747. Any runway foundations designed for a 747 can take an A380 as well.

aphex™

BuffyBot wrote:

They aren't thinking about A380's. Further A330's and possibly A350's ..but they seperate type of plane, which are/will be nowhere near as big as an A380.

They are thinking of the A380. Just longer term than those other aircraft you mentioned. They're trying to make crossing the atlantic cheaper every year. They have been looking at whether its viable to get 600 people on a jet at once. They're talking 2012 here. They've been doing the sums so that when the government sells it, the figures are there for the investor and they can consider it.

BuffyBot

They are thinking of the A380

I'd love to know who is thinking about it. It certainly doesn't seem to figure in their public pronouncements. It hasn't even made it to the industry grapevine.

While they *might* (and it's a big might) fill an A380 in the peak months, it would be woefully under utilised in winter and therefore very expensive to run. An 600+ seater aircraft doing flights with less than 300 passengers is a recipie for disaster and exactly the same problem they had with the 747. One of the reasons they didn't order new 747's to replace the aging ones was due to over capacity, which is why they downsized to the A330. I'd be surprised in they repeat their past mistakes by buying an even bigger aircraft than the 747.

Schuhart

Chris_533976 wrote:

Good to hear that Shannon can take them tho. Interesting. Cork would never need them I guess.

In case you are under the impression that there's some logic to this, you can take it that the fact that Shannon seems to be the only airport able to take them right now is simply because of past insanity in the distribution of resources. We have airports of all kinds of size in all kinds of places. No-one ever asked objectively what kind of airport Cork or anywhere else needed, or if they did it was just for idle conversation during their tea break. Hence, Dublin ended up with an airport that's too small, Shannon with one that's too big.

And then, of course, there's Knock.

aphex™

BuffyBot wrote:

While they *might* (and it's a big might) fill an A380 in the peak months, it would be woefully under utilised in winter and therefore very expensive to run. An 600+ seater aircraft doing flights with less than 300 passengers is a recipie for disaster and exactly the same problem they had with the 747. One of the reasons they didn't order new 747's to replace the aging ones was due to over capacity, which is why they downsized to the A330. I'd be surprised in they repeat their past mistakes by buying an even bigger aircraft than the 747.

Just a theory: heading towards a low cost atlantic carrier, what if they were to use the A380 to fly people to NY and then on to LA in the same plane? It might actually be cheaper fuel wise than running 2 planes, even if its less than half-full over to California.

I presume that is one option they'll be looking at, although I've no info on specifics like that.

The 747 problems should be more or less irrelevant today. Sure tickets are getting cheaper, more people are going to want to fly. Also these days people have loads of money to spend on travel = more arses on seats.

Victor

aphex&#8482 wrote:

Just a theory: heading towards a low cost atlantic carrier, what if they were to use the A380 to fly people to NY and then on to LA in the same plane? It might actually be cheaper fuel wise than running 2 planes, even if its less than half-full over to California.

Generally, no. The expensive parts of flights are the take-off and landing.

aphex™

Victor wrote:

Generally, no. The expensive parts of flights are the take-off and landing.

Westchester could be the next 'Charleroi'. Cheap take offs there.Cheaper keeping crew over night there than Manhattan too. They tried moving staff out from Manhattan.. but that didn't last long.

Victor

aphex&#8482 wrote:

Westchester could be the next 'Charleroi'. Cheap take offs there.

You forget about the amount of fuel used in take-off and the extra time used in turning the aircraft around at the intermediate stop. Now that might work if Westchester was an Aer Lingus hub, but I can't see them getting internal pick-up rights there.

Chris_533976

...plus people going all the way dont like an intermediate stop. Delays etc would make it unfeasible.

Andrew Duffy

Chris_533976 wrote:

Thanks
/me hopes that someday they'll bring the Antonov 225 over here... bigger than the A380 that thing is

The older version of the 225 has landed in Dublin:

http://www.heavyliftgroup.com/news/news_detail.asp?NewsID=561&UserID=40

Chris_533976

Ah yeah I remember that famous train pic

Thats the AN-124, ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-400 ) the baby brother of the AN-225 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-225 ) for those that dont know.

Awesome planes, proved the Russians were better than the Americans at something I have to see the 225 someday tho.