What To Buy???

eirekev

im going to buy my first rifle and was wondering what do you reckon for my first rifle and what sort of price range will it be.i want to go bigger than the .22 but are the chances of me getting a calibre bigger than that for my first rifle good?ill be using it for fox hunting and some target practice i have around 1200 euro to spend bu want to go for the best value option.

Rovi

This is one of those 'How long is a piece of string?' questions.

As I recently discovered in another thread here, people have licenced fullbore rifles as their first rifle, but I'd be of the opinion that those instances were more the exception than the rule.

It's all in the hands of your local Superintendent, and these vary widely from district to district, as you can see in other threads.

johngalway

What do you intend to use it for? What's your budget? I have a shotgun, but I'm going for a .223 for fox control, never had a rifle before but no harm in applying.

John

Sparks

If you've never fired a rifle before eirekev, you'd be better off holding off on buying one, and joining your local target shooting range or gun club first and seeing what this is all about; and you'll get a huge amount of advice on what to get first.

Personally, I'd say a single-shot .22lr would be a good starting point as it'll teach you the basics and the cost of ammo won't ruin you. An old BSA martini action would do fine, and they're giving them away for ridiculous money second-hand in the UK.

Keelan

A good .22lr ( CZ 452) would be a good starting point.
Join a rifle club if you can, to learn safe shooting ect and to get use to a rifle and practice with it.

jaycee

Keelan wrote:

A good .22lr ( CZ 452) would be a good starting point.
Join a rifle club if you can, to learn safe shooting ect and to get use to a rifle and practice with it.

Good Advice ..
Except , I would put the order of events the other way around. :rolleyes:

I.E..
1. Join a rifle club if you can, to learn safe shooting ect and to get use to a rifle and practice with it.

2. Then ...A good bolt action .22lr ( CZ 452) would be a good starting point.

eirekev

i also want to add that i have three years of expierience shooting rifles with the reserves

maglite

FCA must resist use of accrinim F**LS CARRING ARMS o no

newby.204

hey all, as you can see im a newby.
Need some help on picking the caliber of a rifle to be used for rabbits and foxes to 200yrds. I have a shotgun Beretta AL391 love it to pieces, only have it a 3 weeks, but im already findin the shortfall of hunting with it RANGE!
Now i know its a bit quick to be getting a rifle already but i had no trouble getting the shotgun licence and so i need help as you can see im new have an overall budget of €1000 for rifle and scope, price of bullets is playing a BIG factor. ONE MORE THING WOULD A .22LR BE ANY USE AT ALL???

Keelan

newby.204 wrote:

hey all, as you can see im a newby.
Need some help on picking the caliber of a rifle to be used for rabbits and foxes to 200yrds. I have a shotgun Beretta AL391 love it to pieces, only have it a 3 weeks, but im already findin the shortfall of hunting with it RANGE!
Now i know its a bit quick to be getting a rifle already but i had no trouble getting the shotgun licence and so i need help as you can see im new have an overall budget of €1000 for rifle and scope, price of bullets is playing a BIG factor. ONE MORE THING WOULD A .22LR BE ANY USE AT ALL???

.223;)
For the veriety and cheapness of ammo, you will find it hard to beet.
Here are some rifle manufatures below, take your pick:

http://www.czub.cz/index.php?p=32&idp=3&ids=9&lang=en

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/model_700/

http://www.tikka.fi/

http://www.sako.fi/

Ect, ect. Plenty more makes to choose from, just do a searc on the net.

newby.204

thanks keelan, i was lookin at a brno in .223, how cheap is the ammo exactly, like whats the cheapist box going?? its just im lookin at value for money as one of the factors , someone i know suggeseted .22-250? And i was also told about .223 WSSM, i dont actually know anyone with a rifle in this caliber, personally i think its a bit overkill for what i want. Do you have any experience with these caliber is it any good??

Keelan

newby.204 wrote:

thanks keelan, i was lookin at a brno in .223, how cheap is the ammo exactly, like whats the cheapist box going?? its just im lookin at value for money as one of the factors , someone i know suggeseted .22-250? And i was also told about .223 WSSM, i dont actually know anyone with a rifle in this caliber, personally i think its a bit overkill for what i want. Do you have any experience with these caliber is it any good??

Have a look at the link below newby.204:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054933804

Go to my post, i have listed most of the prices of .223 ammo.
As for the .22-250 & .223 WSSm, all i can say is, loud, sharp recoil, barrell burner and barrel fouler.:(
.223 all the way i say.;)

newby.204

thanks keelan for all the help i had hovered over the .223 a while ago but decided i should look at all the available calibers and what would work best for fox/rabbit shooting from 60 - 200yrds, the price of the ammo is a great help as because im new i always think ill get the mick taken when im going to buy the rifle/scope/rounds. now that ive picked the caliber all i have to do is pick a rifle????????? any suggestions? Anyone know if you can get Weatherbys in ireland and if so a distributor in leinster!!!!!!!!!
Have a particular rifle in mind.



http://www.weatherby.com/products/guns.asp?prd=Rifles&prd_sub_type=3&prod_code=VMM223RR4O

Keelan

newby.204 wrote:

thanks keelan for all the help i had hovered over the .223 a while ago but decided i should look at all the available calibers and what would work best for fox/rabbit shooting from 60 - 200yrds, the price of the ammo is a great help as because im new i always think ill get the mick taken when im going to buy the rifle/scope/rounds. now that ive picked the caliber all i have to do is pick a rifle????????? any suggestions? Anyone know if you can get Weatherbys in ireland and if so a distributor in leinster!!!!!!!!!
Have a particular rifle in mind.



http://www.weatherby.com/products/guns.asp?prd=Rifles&prd_sub_type=3&prod_code=VMM223RR4O

Have a look at the link below:

http://www.czub.cz/index.php?p=32&idp=3&ids=9&idz=30&lang=en

The above are great value for money and accurate. Good starting point.

Keelan

Having said all this and the fact that your new to rifle shooting, i would firstly recomend for you to join a good rifle club and get some experience and safety tips on how to use a rifle.
Their are clubs in most parts of the country now.

Another point, your first application for a rifle is usually a .22lr, if as you say, want to go for a .223, then you might find it hard to get licenced the first time, unless that is, you know your local garda well and you get on well with them.

Best of luck.

Keelan.

newby.204

Hey all, keelan has been of great help to me, but i know very few people i can ask about where to find distributors of the rifles im after. If you have read my other two postings you know im from leinster, and i need to know are there any distributors of a) Mauser b) Weatherby c) Winchester
d) Savage e) Steyr-Mannlicher in the leinster area .
Yea i know where i can get Brnos, Tikkas and Sakos but i have a few rifles in mind for .223 as Keelan already suggested its an excellent caliber for the shooting ill be doing (rabbits/foxes at 60 - 200yrds)

Im new to the irish market, all my knowledge of rifles, shotguns, calibers and terms is VERY american as im the only one in my family who is into shooting i educated myself through "guns n ammo" mag etc.......

Any addresses phone numbers would be great thanks

Thanks keelan
im in the defence forces so experience with firearms is something i have. Ive been told i should get a .22lr first, but it took bout 5 weeks for my shotgun licence, and im new to the whole licence application etc but my experience with my FAO was really good he was very helpful and never really dicked me around or anything.

Keelan

newby.204 wrote:

Hey all, keelan has been of great help to me, but i know very few people i can ask about where to find distributors of the rifles im after. If you have read my other two postings you know im from leinster, and i need to know are there any distributors of a) Mauser b) Weatherby c) Winchester
d) Savage e) Steyr-Mannlicher in the leinster area .
Yea i know where i can get Brnos, Tikkas and Sakos but i have a few rifles in mind for .223 as Keelan already suggested its an excellent caliber for the shooting ill be doing (rabbits/foxes at 60 - 200yrds)

Im new to the irish market, all my knowledge of rifles, shotguns, calibers and terms is VERY american as im the only one in my family who is into shooting i educated myself through "guns n ammo" mag etc.......

Any addresses phone numbers would be great thanks

Thanks keelan
im in the defence forces so experience with firearms is something i have. Ive been told i should get a .22lr first, but it took bout 5 weeks for my shotgun licence, and im new to the whole licence application etc but my experience with my FAO was really good he was very helpful and never really dicked me around or anything.

No problem newby, anytime.;)

Thats a long time you waited for a shotgun cert. It should not take more then 2 weeks.
But, as you say, you seem to get on with your FO, which helps a lot.

Good luck,

Keelan.

civdef

Just remember when going from the likes of "Guns & Ammo" that to magazines like newest is generally always best, so calibres like 223wssm get lots of publicity, despite filling a very small niche in the real world.

Dvs

Hello All,
I'm going to say something that might not be too popular,
I think that recomending to somebody that is new to shooting that they buy a rifle in .223/.308 or any centrefire calibre is a really bad idea!

Especially so, if they are not a member of a rifle club, where they would receive training and guidance from other members at the very least,
even then I think it would be a bad idea.

The real challenge to rifle shooters is,
learning how to setup and sight in your rifle,
and learning to shoot your rifle.

Learning about rifle and sight combinations for what applications and most important learning range estimation and learning to think about where your bullet goes when it leaves the barrel,
if it's a hit on target does it stop there?,
if it's a miss where does it end up?
learning about the need for an appropriate backstop in both cases!

Centerfire calibres are so expensive to buy ammo for, that with the best will in the world, you would have to win the lotto, to afford to do the practice needed.

The learning curve may be shorter for some, and they may be able to progress to centrefire rifles sooner, but everyone needs to learn their craft.

Most people, are just not prepared to put in the effort required to become competent at any sport, not just shooting sports, but the idea of somebody with a load fishing tackle or golf clubs that they don't know how to use,
is of no concern to me.

But someone with a centrefire rifle or any firearm, that they not prepared to or or cannot afford to, put in the effort required to become competent with it,
is a danger to shooting sports in general.

For a first rifle buy a .22lr and put in the time and learn to shoot it safely.

just my 2 cent €uro,
Dvs.

civdef

I'm going to say something that might not be too popular,
I think that recomending to somebody that is new to shooting that they buy a rifle in .223/.308 or any centrefire calibre is a really bad idea!

Agree 100%

Vegeta

well the guy is going fox hunting and the .223 is just a better round for hunting fox.

He has also been advised (several times) to firstly join a club learn his craft and then get a rifle. He could ignore this get a rifle and go maiming foxes against all advice given. He has been given sound advice but it is up to him if he chooses to follow it or not.

Gun safety is very important but he would have to be aware of pentration, backstop etc no matter what calibre he shoots

you state that centerfire ammo is dear but buying a .22lr would only add to his expense if he eventually did buy a .223 or .220 swift

I agree with what you're main point is though: safety is paramount

Rovi

Vegeta wrote:

you state that centerfire ammo is dear but buying a .22lr would only add to his expense if he eventually did buy a .223 or .220 swift

I'm sure they're out there, but I personally know of no fullbore rifle shooter who doesn't also have at least one other rifle in .22LR. And not because they had to have one in order to ease the path to getting the fullbore rifle, either.

Vegeta

Rovi wrote:

I'm sure they're out there, but I personally know of no fullbore rifle shooter who doesn't also have at least one other rifle in .22LR. And not because they had to have one in order to ease the path to getting the fullbore rifle, either.

well i hope to be one (if i am granted my .223), i do have a .22 PCP air rifle though and have used my brothers hornet and .270 but no .22lr

So now you know 1

Rovi

Vegeta wrote:

well i hope to be one (if i am granted my .223), i do have a .22 PCP air rifle though and have used my brothers hornet and .270 but no .22lr

So now you know 1

Fair enough.

Not in the biblical sense, obviously

Dvs

Vegeta wrote:

well the guy is going fox hunting and the .223 is just a better round for hunting fox.

He has also been advised (several times) to firstly join a club learn his craft and then get a rifle. He could ignore this get a rifle and go maiming foxes against all advice given.

And it might be fair to assume, he intends to do this at night with a lamp!
most experienced shooters would leave a shot the were not sure of, knowing they would get another shot again, maybe only an hour later, chances are a newbie will not.

So it would be a newbie shooter, with a centerfire rifle shooting at night,
with a rifle that he may or may not have or know how to zero the sights on....

If maming foxes was all that might happen, it would be bad enough!

Vegeta wrote:

He has been given sound advice but it is up to him if he chooses to follow it or not.

Well that won't do you, me or shooting sports in general much good,
if he or another newbie, has a total brain fart!

Not a flame, just a fact.

Vegeta wrote:

Gun safety is very important but he would have to be aware of pentration, backstop etc no matter what calibre he shoots

I re-read my post just to check, and I did not claim it was calibre specific.

just my 2 cents €uro,
Dvs.

Keelan

Dvs wrote:

Hello All,
I'm going to say something that might not be too popular,
I think that recomending to somebody that is new to shooting that they buy a rifle in .223/.308 or any centrefire calibre is a really bad idea!

Especially so, if they are not a member of a rifle club, where they would receive training and guidance from other members at the very least,
even then I think it would be a bad idea.

The real challenge to rifle shooters is,
learning how to setup and sight in your rifle,
and learning to shoot your rifle.

Learning about rifle and sight combinations for what applications and most important learning range estimation and learning to think about where your bullet goes when it leaves the barrel,
if it's a hit on target does it stop there?,
if it's a miss where does it end up?
learning about the need for an appropriate backstop in both cases!

Centerfire calibres are so expensive to buy ammo for, that with the best will in the world, you would have to win the lotto, to afford to do the practice needed.

The learning curve may be shorter for some, and they may be able to progress to centrefire rifles sooner, but everyone needs to learn their craft.

Most people, are just not prepared to put in the effort required to become competent at any sport, not just shooting sports, but the idea of somebody with a load fishing tackle or golf clubs that they don't know how to use,
is of no concern to me.

But someone with a centrefire rifle or any firearm, that they not prepared to or or cannot afford to, put in the effort required to become competent with it,
is a danger to shooting sports in general.

For a first rifle buy a .22lr and put in the time and learn to shoot it safely.

just my 2 cent €uro,
Dvs.

I mentioned all this in my post.:rolleyes:
Most of us have been their and at one time, we were all biginners.

Keelan.

Vegeta

Dvs wrote:

And it might be fair to assume, he intends to do this at night with a lamp!
most experienced shooters would leave a shot the were not sure of, knowing they would get another shot again, maybe only an hour later, chances are a newbie will not.

So it would be a newbie shooter, with a centerfire rifle shooting at night,
with a rifle that he may or may not have or know how to zero the sights on....

If maming foxes was all that might happen, it would be bad enough!

Well that won't do you, me or shooting sports in general much good,
if he or another newbie, has a total brain fart!

Not a flame, just a fact.

I re-read my post just to check, and I did not claim it was calibre specific.

just my 2 cents €uro,
Dvs.

well to start if a guy does go out at night and take risky shots in the dark it doesn't matter what calibre they have its unsafe, even a shotgun in those situations is just stupid.

Zeroing the sights on most rifle/scope set ups is pretty much the same, there are obvious differences such as bullet drop is much less for a .223 than a .22lr over 100-200yards

well there is nothing legally stopping the OP from applying for a licence for any rifle so its up to the super to decide if the op is fit to hold such a licence (for a centerfire that is). It may be a sad state of affairs that the OP can just ignore everything we tell him but its the reality we live in

you didn't have to re-read your post, I was just implying that most safety lessons learned with a .22lr are the same with a .223/308 just on bigger scales. More penetration, bullets travel very far and bullet drop is less but if a person learns all the skills for centerfire marksmanship and safety at a range first (like he has been advised by loads of users) then i don't see a problem

Dvs

Hello Keelan,
yes, in response to the OP you did tell them to learn with a .22lr and join a club.

This is good and reasonable advice.


I was speaking in reference to the advice below given in response to
newby.204 who states, he has had a shotgun for all of 3 weeks!
and similar advice, posted by others on various threads recently.

newby.204 wrote:

hey all, as you can see im a newby.
Need some help on picking the caliber of a rifle to be used for rabbits and foxes to 200yrds. I have a shotgun Beretta AL391 love it to pieces, only have it a 3 weeks, but im already findin the shortfall of hunting with it RANGE!
Now i know its a bit quick to be getting a rifle already but i had no trouble getting the shotgun licence and so i need help as you can see im new have an overall budget of €1000 for rifle and scope, price of bullets is playing a BIG factor. ONE MORE THING WOULD A .22LR BE ANY USE AT ALL???

Keelan wrote:

.223;)
For the veriety and cheapness of ammo, you will find it hard to beet.
Here are some rifle manufatures below, take your pick:

http://www.czub.cz/index.php?p=32&idp=3&ids=9&lang=en

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/model_700/

http://www.tikka.fi/

http://www.sako.fi/

Ect, ect. Plenty more makes to choose from, just do a searc on the net.

Dvs.

newby.204

I thank al for their suggestions and advice, however im defence forces and i am confident i can zero a rife properly due to the fact ive done it several times on a Steyr(5.56). I understand the concerns of more experienced hunters however im not new to firearms, just the civilian market. I wouldnt shoot a fox with a shotgun, or a .22lr as i consider it, personally speakin, to be cruel. I am unfamiliar with the civi calibers so i asked for advice.

I appreciate the concern about risky shots, no backstop etc however im not an idiot and understand a bullet doesnt stop till it hits something, therefore i only would take shots with a backstop.

I am opting for a .223 as ballistically it siuts my needs, as would a .222. If anyone has any experience with the .22 magnum, hornet and reckons it would do i am open to suggestions

Dvs

newby.204 wrote:

I thank al for their suggestions and advice, however im defence forces and i am confident i can zero a rife properly due to the fact ive done it several times on a Steyr(5.56). I understand the concerns of more experienced hunters however im not new to firearms, just the civilian market. I wouldnt shoot a fox with a shotgun, or a .22lr as i consider it, personally speakin, to be cruel. I am unfamiliar with the civi calibers so i asked for advice.

Well obviously you are a firearms expert,
seeing as you are in the defense forces:rolleyes:

You say that shooting a fox with a shotgun is cruel,
I suppose this is because you feel that it is ballistically insufficient within its useable range, I guess this is an indication of your expertise!

newby.204 wrote:

I appreciate the concern about risky shots, no backstop etc however im not an idiot and understand a bullet doesnt stop till it hits something, therefore i only would take shots with a backstop.

No, a bullet does not stop, until it stops, regardless of what it hits!

I predict you will be posting advice for others,
before your post count gets to thirty.

Dvs.

Sparks

Okay lads, play nicer
Newby, defence forces training is a good start, but it doesn't teach you all you need to know to hunt safely; these guys do have something to teach and we all have perfectly reasonable wishes to see people train and shoot safely.
(And DvS, plenty of people here were posting good advice from their first post onwards )

Keelan

Dvs wrote:

I predict you will be posting advice for others,
before your post count gets to thirty.

Dvs.

A bit like yourself then??:D

Personally I would agree with DvS, some the of the FCA people we get down are quite scary in the the way that they miss-handle a weapon as, since it not a steyr, its not a real gun.

Join a club, learn the the ropes, and then when you are confident and competent, go hunting.

Vegeta

look newby.204 you sound like you have a decent head on your shoulders with regards safety and from your original post i would say that a .223 would suit your needs as it has a decent range for foxes (200-250 yards) the ammo isn't hugely expensive

There are people here who say you should start with a rimfire and then go onto a centerfire like the .223. Your budget is 1000 euro so that doesn't really leave room to join a range when buying the .223. Even with the .22lr (with scope and range membership) you will come in just under the 1000 euro for a rifle you don't even want and isn't effective for what you want to do.

safety is the number on aspect of shooting, you cant make one mistake ever when hunting as that one mistake could cost you or someone else there life. So even with your current training seek out some guidance when shooting. If you cant afford to join a range, go hunting with some of the respected guys in your gun club and leave your gun at home until you observe how to act in the field with a civilian rifle

newby.204

I have no intentions of posting advice as im not familiar with hunting, just firearms, its a personal opinion on hunting foxes with shotgunc, ive seen foxes take four or five shots from 3inch magnums before they stop runnin. I Believe in a clean kill, might only have my firearm 3 weeks but ive already had several "twitchers" and i hate to see an animal like that, it sickens me. Yes i realise it will happen but i like to avoid it. Ballistics dont always transfer to the field very well, a shotgun may be "sufficient" but its not for me.

Im not lookin to make enemies only on here three or four days just lookin for advice is all.

Keelan

newby.204 wrote:

Im not lookin to make enemies only on here three or four days just lookin for advice is all.

Im afraid newby, this seems to be the case on this forum:rolleyes: , too many armchair snipers telling folks what to do.
They forget that they themselfs were once biginners.

keelan.

Dvs

Keelan wrote:

Im afraid newby, this seems to be the case on this forum:rolleyes: , too many armchair snipers telling folks what to do.
They forget that they themselfs were once biginners.

keelan.

Keelan,
I do not intend to get into sh*te talk tennis with you about this,
but for your information, I am not a sniper, nor have I ever claimed to be a sniper,
Real world, armchair or otherwise.

I have not forgotten that I was a beginner once also,
but when I was, I learnt to shoot with an air rifle as a teenager,
then when I was a few years older, I bought my first shotgun
and a few years after that my first rifle a .22lr.

Since then I have shot with a lot of different firearms of various types,
and calibres, but the early years in my shooting with these firearms,
is where I learnt the basics of firearms safety and hunting.

Many years later, I am still learning,
anyone that claims to know everything about anything is either,
an idiot, a liar or both!

Keelan wrote:

A bit like yourself then??:D

I never claimed to be a newbie and have not posted much that could be considered advice,
comment, observation, My, not so humble opinion;)

newby.204 wrote:

Originally Posted by newby.204

Im not lookin to make enemies only on here three or four days just lookin for advice is all.

I am not attempting to make an enemy of you or anyone else,
You stated you were a newbie you even took the username newby.204
now you are saying, that you are a member of the defense forces,
and not such a novice after all.

I have shot on a few ranges in my time,
and none of them provides any education,
in respect of the use of firearms for hunting.

Any Range=controlled situation,
Known firing point and direction of fire,
berm built to contain shoot throughs, misses, and ND's
mess up here, you get your arse kicked by the RO.

Hunting=Uncontrolled situation,
UnKnown firing point and direction of fire.
mess up here??????????????????????????

Just my 2 cents €uro,
Dvs.

newby.204

newby.204 wrote:

Dvs wrote:

I am not attempting to make an enemy of you or anyone else,
You stated you were a newbie you even took the username newby.204
now you are saying, that you are a member of the defense forces,
and not such a novice after all..

bad choice of username, ment new to forum/hunting, sorry for the confusion

Dvs wrote:

I have shot on a few ranges in my time,
and none of them provides any education,
in respect of the use of firearms for hunting.

Any Range=controlled situation,
Known firing point and direction of fire,
berm built to contain shoot throughs, misses, and ND's
mess up here, you get your arse kicked by the RO..

I agree completely with you here firearms are a priviliege in this country, not a right, and as such we have a responsibility to use them safely

Dvs wrote:

Hunting=Uncontrolled situation,
UnKnown firing point and direction of fire.
mess up here??????????????????????????.

Someone could end up dead, and not something i want on my concience, so i appreciate your concerns.

I would like to get back on topic to my question a below........
I am opting for a .223 as ballistically it suits my needs, as would a .222. If anyone has any experience with the .22 magnum, hornet and reckons it would do i am open to suggestions????


Below there are two rifles,both Brno(cz).

The cz527varmintk is available in
.223/.222 but doubt ill find one second hand!

The cz527 is available in .22hornet/.222/.223, prob more cahance of findin this in 2nd hand. Its in .22hornet so if anyone reckons that this would drop a fox, im open to advice/experiences!!!!!!!!!!!!

Vinniew

With reference to all the goodwill posts here on the forum regarding training etc. I would like to mention a few bits and pieces that came to my attention over the past couple of years:

First off......I learned to handle firearms from my brother......ex defence forces.......then later in the reserves myself.

Can't speak for other units but the training we were given was excellent.....better than any other "training" I've recieved.
Yes I'm sure everyone has a story about someone they knew in the reserves and how dangerous they were......

So....could all the "experts" here stop knocking the RDF/PDF etc?

Later I joined a club.......where one or two senior members ran safety courses.........extremely basic courses.......but containing all the basics for safe use of a rifle......on a club range.
I've also seen people....quite a few slip through the net and go months waiting to do a safety course......while firing away everytime they attend the range

I've seen people turn around on the firing point with a loaded, cocked semi auto rifle......seen senior R/Os open a bolt during a hangfire, seen too much to writte about here.....all club trained people.


So please lets not hear how the clubs are the answer to all our prayers and that once a club member you're gonna be given all the tuition you can swallow.
Forget about it!

The forum here is a valuable resource of info on all manner of shooting disciplines.......make the info freely available......offer advice and encouragement.
If someone comes with a question be patient......help and guide them

For new shooters: DO JOIN A CLUB .....push for info anywhere u can.
There is no one rule book to follow....take on board as much info as you can and use it.

As a little sidebar to this........I would also like to point out that although I've seen some "safety instruction" on the range/in courses.......I've seen noboby getting any help in making them a better shot......that kind of help comes from friends........

newby.204

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Changed my mind disregard previous post on this thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey, i know ive caused some tension in the last few days about my choice in caliber to start off with. After doing some serious reading and dragging every bit of advice out of anyone i know with a gun.........

Im thinking, now just thinking, of applying for two rifles at the same time.
A; Brno cz 527 in .22 hornet(pic below)
B; Brno cz 452 in .17HMR(pic below took this off a website!)

If i get the cz452 im looking to set it up rifle/scope/bipod/moderator! for rabbits

Im on a tight budget but ive been doing some ringing and i just might about make it!

Im thinking the FO will say NO right off because its two rifles at once so im knid of hoping some one will give me some hope. yea stupid i know, but i cant moderate the .22 hornet for rabbits and the .17 i wouldnt use on foxes, unless someone has taken foxes with a .17 in 100yrds, doubtful??????

Well heres hopin let me know what ye think.

Vegeta

ok the .22 hornet would be a fine rifle for fox hunting and the .17 would be lovely for the rabbits

I honestly think if you go talk to your super and tell him why you are applying for 2 rifles he'll be a little more understanding.

You will also have to licence the moderator so you are going for 3 licences at once there not 2

Get the rifle licences if ya can and worry bout moderator later

newby.204

Vegeta wrote:

ok the .22 hornet would be a fine rifle for fox hunting and the .17 would be lovely for the rabbits

I honestly think if you go talk to your super and tell him why you are applying for 2 rifles he'll be a little more understanding.

You will also have to licence the moderator so you are going for 3 licences at once there not 2

Get the rifle licences if ya can and worry bout moderator later

Oh i dint know you had to have a licence for a moderator, so there you go another lesson learned. If ive to get 3 at once it would be a lil dodgy so i think ill just apply for the 2 rifles and get the moderator later as you said.

Rovi

I'm sure you're like the vast majority of law-abiding people in this country, in that your only formal contact with the Gardai is at routine roadside tax/drink checkpoints or perhaps asking for directions on the street, so the whole 'going into the station to conduct formal business at the counter' thing may be a bit daunting at first. Believe me, after a while it'll get to be no bother, and you'll be on first name terms with the Firearms Officer and probably a few others. I'm at the point where they roll their eyes to heaven and wonder "What's he looking for now?" when they see me coming. :rolleyes:

With that in mind, and before you pay money for a pair of rifles, I'd suggest you ramble into the station some day for a chat with the Firearms Officer, telling them what you're thinking and explaining your reasoning for your proposals.
Provided you have your ducks neatly in a row (upstanding citizen, land/permission to shoot, etc), there's no reason why you shouldn't be issued licences for the two guns.
What it'll come down to, is the attitude and 'policy' of your local Superintendent. A chat with the Firearms Officer will give you a lot of info on this, and may colour your decision making process and application strategy.

If you're prepared to tell us what Garda District you're in, it's quite likely someone here has experience of licencing rifles with your Superintendent and might be able to give you their thoughts on the subject too.

Oh, and I'd agree with leaving the moderator out of it for the moment.

Umiq88

.17hmr will take foxes within 100 yards as will a .22wmr

Really depends which route you want to go down a .22wmr is perfect for shooting rabbits and foxes with a head shot the rest of the rabbit is fine for eating and within 100 yards a correctly placed shot on a fox will drop him but if you intend to do a serious amout of shooting id up it just for convenience to a hornet or .223. If you want a rifle for just shooting rabbits a .22lr would be a good choice as with subs and a moderator all you'll hear is the pin hitting the cartridge and wont do much damage to a rabbit a hmr cant be made silent without spending alot of money.

I would go for a .22wmr (magnum) if your not going for a serious amount of foxes and can get within 100yards and it will do the job on rabbits as well. Ballistic tip bullets can be bought which will extend the range of it to short of 200 yards if your a good shot so you could take a fox out to 120 or so.

A .17hmr will do the same job but the magnum has more killing power at that range with the heavier bullet but you can shoot rabbits out to 200yards but you shouldnt have any problem getting within 80 yards of a rabbit

.22lr will take rabbits out to 90yards it will teach you alot about tradjectory and bullet drop compensation

There is also a .17hm2 which is a faster .22lr with a flat tradjectory which is nice if you dont want to be allowing for drop and a very good rabbit gun but again i dont think you'll be able to silence it completely

Not to sure about a hornet should take a fox out to 200yards anyway but not great for rabbits id imagine

newby.204

Im in kildare........

Thanks for the advice as you say i do find it a bit daunting, the FO knows me a bit but not too well, i got on with him when i was applying for my licence for my shotgun. Got it in 5 weeks, after talking to people thats seems to be very short round here. i can have a chat with the FO as you said and explain what i want and why i wnat it.

Between the three farms i used for my licence there is a total of 200+ acres!
Never had any run in with cops as seen by the fact i have the shotgun licence!!!!!!!!

Im hoping he will accept my reasons for the two rifles you see the smile on my face from the moon!!!! And ill leave the moderator for a while

Rovi

newby.204 wrote:

Thanks for the advice as you say i do find it a bit daunting, the FO knows me a bit but not too well, i got on with him when i was applying for my licence for my shotgun. Got it in 5 weeks, after talking to people thats seems to be very short round here. i can have a chat with the FO as you said and explain what i want and why i wnat it.

Between the three farms i used for my licence there is a total of 200+ acres!
Never had any run in with cops as seen by the fact i have the shotgun licence!!!!!!!!

Well, if you were applying in Portlaoise, I'd think it'd only be a formality that you'd get your licences. You've covered all the criteria that the Super likes to see: already known to the local Gardai (in a GOOD way ), already on the PULSE system with the shotgun licence, plenty of land/permission.
The only other thing I might suggest if you don't already have it, is some form of insurance cover. Membership of a Gun Club (NARGC) or Target Shooting Club usually includes this, but you can organise it for yourself if you want.
Here's Countryside Alliance Ireland's membership application page- http://www.caireland.org/Support_Us/join_us/Republic_of_Ireland_-_Full_Membership/.
€60 gets you insurance for all sorts of activities, and your landowners will like to see it too.

Good luck

Umiq88

another factor might be the cost of ammo depending on your income

rimfire ammo is alot cheaper than centrefire

.22lr is around 6-9 a box of 50 depending on the quaility
.22wmr is 12-13 a box of 50 or 19-22 for ballistic tip high quaility
.17hmr im not sure imagine its 14-16
.17hm2 have no idea
.22 hornet is 22 a box of 50 i think but im not sure
.223 is around 12 for 20 for cheapish stuff you can get alot more expensive stuff

my advice would be a .22lr and a .22 hornet both rifles and ammo can be bought cheap for high quaility stuff and the .22lr allows you to plink(shoot at cans and stuff) for very cheap which is great fun and then you havethe hornet for more serious shooting at longer ranges

Failing that i would apply for a .22wmr which would be the second best option imo

Let us know how you get on and what you decide to do

If 1200 is your budget then second hand is the way to go just make sure to inspect it to make sure its in order and buy from a reputable dealer all common sense really

cz/brno is the way to go as regards getting your moneys worth they are a very fine rifle for hunting and casual practice and are not expensive

i have a cz 452 .22wmr cost €300 in v.good condition put a scope on for €50 and for €350 have a very accurate rifle which would not be bet by anything under €1000

Rovi

I'd concur with psittacosis' reasoning on getting a .22lr and a .22 Hornet.
.22lr for bunny bashing/plinking/target fun and games, and the .22 Hornet for foxy.

They're both licenced as .220 calibre firearms, so there'll be none of the jumping-through-hoops required for getting a fullbore rifle (.222, .223, etc), and there appear to be plenty of nice used Hornets out there at the moment, what with people 'trading up' now that the fullbore stuff is finally available.

.22lr has been available here forever, so there is a vast array of new and used guns to choose from.

.22lr is unbeatable for 'value for money' shooting fun. Bulk packs/cartons of ammunition are readily available for well under €30/500 rounds (>€3/50).

spideog7

Really depends which route you want to go down a .22wmr is perfect for shooting rabbits and foxes with a head shot the rest of the rabbit is fine for eating and within 100 yards a correctly placed shot on a fox will drop him

yep thats the direction I was thinkin of goin' too seems like a nice all rounder to me...and probably easier to get a licence .

Just remember though if your gettin 2 rifles it's quite possible that you'll need a gun cabinet and for 2 rifles (1 scoped) and a shotgun that'd be a fairly big gun cabinet (or probably a second one at the very least)...which all ads to the expense, €250 there or thereabouts.
Thats the only expense that would put me off because, although its necessary, that would push it up a nice bit

newby.204

Have a gun cabinet, holds three guns. Was talking to a friends bro and he agrees a .22lr for bunnies, plinking etc and the .22 hornet or failing that
.22wmr for those red b@5t@rD5 out there!

Read this; http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054937202

and if you read the link you know i just had bad news!!!!
Gona price some Brnos this weekend!!!!
Ill see how everything goes and ill let you know!