Suicide is never the answer.

Blub2k4

A friend of mine hung himself over the weekend and was buried yesterday.
I didn't have an awful lot of contact with him in about 10-15 years but we would have a pint now and again if we met when we were out.

I feel sad for his family, his three children and his girlfriend.

If you feel this way dont do it, it leaves devestation behind and answers questions for no one.

It rips holes in peoples lives.

I see posts here now and again about people contemplating suicide, DONT DO IT.

There is always another way, you owe more than that to the people around you, even if you cant see the wood for the trees.

Thanks for reading.


RIP Charles O' Rourke, Elphin, Co. Roscommon.

Heard about the poor lad!R.I.P.

Louisiana

im very sorry for your loss blub2k4, this must be a very hard time for you.

i agree with you 100% that suicide is not the answer.
ive read that people sometimes think that their family would be better off without them, but if they saw the devastaion that suicide leaves behind they would never go through with it.

Blub2k4

It's actually only sinking in at this moment since I made this post and I'm quite sad now.

Beruthiel

so sorry about your friend Blub.
it's always very sad, you and his family will always be left wondering

hullaballoo

I'm very sorry to hear that blub.

You're right too, it's not an answer. I think this thread is perhaps a very good idea from the point of view of people who have been contemplating it. It might make them realise that people get very badly hurt by this, and often they are so caught up in their own troubles, that they fail to recognise this.

Perhaps this will bring it home that there are consequences to suicide that go far beyond your own troubles. Much more so.

Hermione*

I'm so sorry blub. R.I.P. Charles.

Sam Vimes

Louisiana wrote:

im very sorry for your loss blub2k4, this must be a very hard time for you.

i agree with you 100% that suicide is not the answer.
ive read that people sometimes think that their family would be better off without them, but if they saw the devastaion that suicide leaves behind they would never go through with it.

thats something i never understood. surely theyve seen other suicides and the effect they have!?


i think a TD whos name i cant remember said it best when he said:

suicide is a permanent solution to what is always a temporary problem

Tar.Aldarion

I'm very sorry to hear that blub.


Commander Vimes, suicide is not always a rational choice, sometimes you can't logcally contol your actions with depression...

ferdi

Commander Vimes wrote:

thats something i never understood. surely theyve seen other suicides and the effect they have!?


i think a TD whos name i cant remember said it best when he said:

suicide is a permanent solution to what is always a temporary problem

thats all very well and good but when someone is suicidal they are not going to be seeing straight or looking at the big picture. you can have the best intentions in the world but when serious depression comes knocking it can change who you are completely.

R.I.P.

LegacyUser

Blub2k4, I think there are a number of reasons why someone contemplating suicide would not feel that they owe people in the way you indicated.
>I put this in terms of 'positive' and 'negative' owing:
1. 'Owing' something in a positive sense (i.e. the duty to give something of value to another person) ----> A person contemplating suicide will often feel that their life does not have any value.
2. 'Owing' something' in a negative sense (i.e. the duty to refrain from injuring another person in some way) ----> A person contemplating suicide may feel that ending their life will have a generally good & helpful affect (in the long term) on friends,family etc.


An assumption I feel many are making here,is that the virtue of Responsibility, if the person simply had 'more of it',
could overturn the Suicidal tendancies.
However I feel this is no so:
>Responsibility in this context though involves a number of aspects:
MORALITY: A person contemplating suicide may in some respects have a very mixed up sense of right and wrong. For instance, as I indicated above, some will feel that the 'right' thing to do by friends & family is to be gone permanently.
DUTY: There can obviously be no external/forced legal sanction against the person who does die by suicide. Also the person may feel that what they do with their bodies is always 'their' choice, regardless of the consequence. Thus, a person may feel that the 'duty' not to commit suicide is an optional, rather than an imposed responsibility.
MENTAL STRENGTH: To carry out a particular responsibilty, and especially to 'assume' or 'shoulder' it - I feel requires a certain 'mental strength'. However it is this very strength which is often lacking in the person contemplating suicide.

---
In summary, to appeal to a sense of 'owing' or duty or responsibility as a possible 'antidote' to suicide, would unfortunately I think just not be useful.

Blub2k4

Mr Me No Reg wrote:

Blub2k4, I think there are a number of reasons why someone contemplating suicide would not feel that they owe people in the way you indicated.
>I put this in terms of 'positive' and 'negative' owing:
1. 'Owing' something in a positive sense (i.e. the duty to give something of value to another person) ----> A person contemplating suicide will often feel that their life does not have any value.
2. 'Owing' something' in a negative sense (i.e. the duty to refrain from injuring another person in some way) ----> A person contemplating suicide may feel that ending their life will have a generally good & helpful affect (in the long term) on friends,family etc.


An assumption I feel many are making here,is that the virtue of Responsibility, if the person simply had 'more of it',
could overturn the Suicidal tendancies.
However I feel this is no so:
>Responsibility in this context though involves a number of aspects:
MORALITY: A person contemplating suicide may in some respects have a very mixed up sense of right and wrong. For instance, as I indicated above, some will feel that the 'right' thing to do by friends & family is to be gone permanently.
DUTY: There can obviously be no external/forced legal sanction against the person who does die by suicide. Also the person may feel that what they do with their bodies is always 'their' choice, regardless of the consequence. Thus, a person may feel that the 'duty' not to commit suicide is an optional, rather than an imposed responsibility.
MENTAL STRENGTH: To carry out a particular responsibilty, and especially to 'assume' or 'shoulder' it - I feel requires a certain 'mental strength'. However it is this very strength which is often lacking in the person contemplating suicide.

---
In summary, to appeal to a sense of 'owing' or duty or responsibility as a possible 'antidote' to suicide, would unfortunately I think just not be useful.

I'm not really interested in a cerebral analysis of the motives for or against suicide, I am a humanist, I see that the family is due more than being left in this position. The guys sister berated him from the pulpit for leaving them like this, bollix to suicide mate.

Jello

Sorry about your friend.
I know someone who actually tried to commit suicide on Wednesday (for very stupid reasons) and failed. He had to be watched in hospital to make sure he wouldn't try again.

LegacyUser

I am sorry about your friend Blub2k4.
One of my very best friends died by suicide less than a year ago.
Suicide is terrible, and I apologise if I didn't make clear that this was self-evident to me. yes, 'bollix' to suicide.

I've been there myself. If somebody had said to me if I was thinking of suicide: 'think of your family and friends', I would respond with 'no', because for all of the reasons I gave above, duty to family & friends would simply NOT have mattered to me at that time.
Would you blame someone for dying of Meningitis? Well in the same way, you can't blame someone for dying of depression.

My opinion is that for anyone on the other side of suicide, of course there is grief, and blame too. But if we want to really make a difference and stop suicides, we need to analyse & understand why it happens, and only from that can we really work out how to stop it.

LegacyUser

My personal feelings about suicide is that it's your own choice, but just make sure it's the only choice you really have.

About two years ago i tried to commit suicide because of a speech impediment that i'd had for 10 years. I just had enough of not being able to speak properly and get along with people, i just had enough of being alone. So i thought i'd come to the end and took a huge overdose of painkillers, sleeping tabs etc, and washed it all down with a big 3 litre bottle of cheapo cider. I fell asleep thinking that was the end...and woke up the next morning beside a puddle of puke.

I could of died, you know. Should of died, in fact, with the amount of crap i took. After that i deicided to throw myself into trying to fix my voice with the help of speech exercises and 6 months later it payed off. I've now got such a lovely deep sexy voice it's unbelievable. I love it, women love it. I'm now happy to be alive for the first time since forever.

I came close to throwing it all away.

Heyes

Firstly Lucky Cheese, im so happy that things worked out for you, could you imagine what you would have missed if things had gone another way. Well done on working on your speach, im sure you are such a stronger and more wonderful a person because of the tough times you ve gone through both emotionally and possible physically. Well done, may your strenght continue and things get so much better for you

Blub im so sorry to hear about your friend, I have lost a number of friends to suicude, and its totally heartbreaking, nobody every know s why they do it, i know some reasons were mentioned above, but my understanding and opinion on this is that the person involved is really the only person that knows why they may have taken there life. I feel its down to the individual, yes there can be reasons such as depression, home problems, money, work problems etc that really push the individual in that direction or so down to an exstent that they feel that this is the only action they can take for them to feel some happiness in there life. It is tough blub to understand why, and i know your not really looking for reasons tbh. I do agree with you that its never a good thing to do, I wish people could feel that they could find someone to talk to, and share how they feel, there is always an ear that wants to listen and care.

Suicide is never the final straw, people should learn to open up instead of hiding all there emotions, thoughts, worries etc, it could make a huge difference in there life and make them happier in the long run. Some people appear to feel ashamed of talking to a doctor or even a friend about things like this, this honestly should Never the case.

Rant over

b3t4

Why not open the communication lines with all of your friends and family? And I mean really open. People here seem to believe that people who are contemplating suicide know that they have an ear to listen to them. But if you don't tell people that you are there for them whenever they need a chat they will not come to you to talk. Saying simply that "i may not be able to offer the advise or solution you need but I can listen and give options"

All my friends are very much aware that if they ever have anything they want to talk to me about they can. I didn't assume they knew this I made a point of telling them.

It is awful that so many people die from suicide but we can help by talking more.

What happens in the situation that the people causing them to contemplate suicide are family members and friends? A situation like suicide is never black and white and if there was a simple answer then there wouldn't be any suicides.

A.

Heyes

b3t4 wrote:

Why not open the communication lines with all of your friends and family? And I mean really open. People here seem to believe that people who are contemplating suicide know that they have an ear to listen to them. But if you don't tell people that you are there for them whenever they need a chat they will not come to you to talk. Saying simply that "i may not be able to offer the advise or solution you need but I can listen and give options"

All my friends are very much aware that if they ever have anything they want to talk to me about they can. I didn't assume they knew this I made a point of telling them.

It is awful that so many people die from suicide but we can help by talking more.

What happens in the situation that the people causing them to contemplate suicide are family members and friends? A situation like suicide is never black and white and if there was a simple answer then there wouldn't be any suicides.

A.

Well Said, I totally agree.

LegacyUser

Maybe I've been a bit of a moaney-pants so far.
Well let me try and make up for it- here's how I pulled out of a 25 year depression.

Background: At 25 I had been depressed, literally as long as I could remember. There was no big reason, fairly humdrum middle class existence etc. I'd say I hated almost every day though.

Diagnosis:
How do you know you're 'depressed?'.
I certainly didn't, I had no non-depressed period in my life I could remember, and too solitary, stubborn and contrary to admit to anyone else there was a problem. So how did I 'know' in such a situation?. Well I didn't, I simply decided to do something about it.
For me there was no need to hear the titles that our age gives to age-weary human conditions. I wanted to give the problem a name though, so I simply chose the one that most seemed to fit: 'Depression'.

Solution:
Depression is the name of the enemy. Thats how I see it, and here's how I fought it.
RESOURCES
Family, friends: I made sure to stay in touch with these much more than usual. Regular phonecalls to distant ones, and visiting near ones when I could. Just to hang out really. The i.n.t.e.r.n.e.t: Here's where you find out you are not alone in what you're going through. There are even dedicated sites that are useful (e.g. http://www.theblackdog.net/ ).
Help Group Meetings: I was going to go to one of these, but actually just never got round to it.
TACTICS:
One very good tactic was similar to what i've heard a doctor might call 'thought replacement'. Sounds ridiculous I know, but what I used was simply this: if an irrationally sad thought enters into your brain, in order kick it out, think of something good you have going for you [e.g. I've got some(ok about 2 but pschh!) good friends, or I can play the guitar(just about wahey!).] You get the idea.


Right well, that was a long rant.
Now, this being the i.n.t.e.r.n.e.t., there's bound to be those who
will laugh at all this, maybe say Im a crackpot or whatever. But please remember, this wasn't easy to post, and I post it not for my own sake, but only in the hope that it might help others, even in some very small way. I make no claims for extraordinary wisdom, but what I do know is that I really feel better. Sure, I may still have only 2 friends, sure my guitar playing still needs work, and sure-I still have no clue whatsoever about girls!!!....but->its ok.

Sean7

Sorry about your friend man, especially for his kids.
Not knowing the guy, it's hard for anyone to judge him for what he done. Having seen the effects of suicide first hand, I understand that it is devastating for those left behind who loved that person but I personally don't think people who commit suicide should be judged as selfish automatically. Think how hard most of us would try to avoid dying, if someone is in a situation where they are willing to take their own life then it is obviously a very serious problem for them and suicide may seem to them like the only viable option.