MMA Training question..

soretoe

If Muay Thai and BJJ were the two disciplines that I, as a newbie to MMA, was going to try and focus on, then how many classes would I need to be doing realistically of each weekly to improve at MMA but also to give my body a chance to recover from classes ?
Basically, is 1 BJJ + 1 MT class per week on top of some extra conditioning work and good diet considered enough to really make ground in MMA training ?
Any views would be appreciated.
It's kind of a How long is a peice of string question seeing as obviously some people have more time to train and would like to compete eventually and so on but I'm basically asking on behalf of someone who is kind of fit, quite flexible, has a little martial arts experience in one or two disciplines and would love to compete someday at some level of MMA comp.
I'm new on this forum but I've read some of the threads and I have yet to see anyone giving advice or discussing the right way to balance lifestyle with MMA training, there's loads to be said about the right way to schedule your training week and recovery after classes etc.. that people like myself would benefit from knowing so that we can get into MMA with the right frame of mind and with an intelligent and practical training schedule in mind.
Maybe it's a case of the more training the better as far as BJJ goes but mixing in the Muay Thai and its sparring/impact element makes that a little difficult to achieve I'd say, anyway, any opinions at all would be great......

Dragan

If I might be so bold as to offer an opinion here?

Training for anything, including martial arts, of any kind, is a very instinctive thing. It's really as case of train often, and when you feel up to it, and sometimes when you don't. Like you said, how long is a piece of string?

The difference between training for MA and training for others sports or to lift weights or something like that is that MA is not just about training you muscles, your training you CNS as well. ( central nervous system ) as you throw a jab, hook, kick, practice with your quarter staff, roll and grapple…whatever you may do…..it's all about practice. It'a about finding the technique, the groove if you will that is the most efficent way for your body to carry out the things it needs to do with maximum speed, accuaracy, efficency and power. I could make it more complicated but I won't.

But people say MA training, myself included, but it also involves practice. Thing of training as working the muscles, while practice works your Central Nervous system and actually makes you better at it. The training just improves the tools you can use.

I'm probably over complicating the issue but it is an important distinction to be able to make in order to train properly.

The conditioning etc that you mentioned would fall into the "training" making your muscles strong or more durable, improving your cardio vascular conditiong etc…..the "practive" would be in throwing shots, or rolling, working on the technique efficency etc.

As such, like anything else, the more you practice the better you will become.

Just listen to your body, if it's telling you it is very tired then take a break for a day. If not, practive and train when you can.

That is just my opinion though, I'm sure other people's will differ.:D

Roper

Simply put, to progress reasonably at any physical activity you have to be doing it at least twice a week.

It's not always possible. My advice to you would be to specialise and use the other as supplemental to whatever it is you're specialising in.

soretoe

Sounds smart to me, thanks for the tip.

But here's my problem...what if I want to specialise in striking standing up and train for take downs simply to G'n'P...unlike BJJ I would assume you can't really 'Bang' in sparring even if it was live coz of injuries I wud think, maybe I'm wrong, maybe yee all beat the hell outa eachother in Muai Thai but you get my point....how can someone specialise in stand up if they can't really Bang like they wud want to in an MMA 'small gloves' competition situation. You can train as hard as you want against someone in BJJ coz they'll tap (if their smart) but you can't take someones head off with a big Muai Thai Shin kick and so you may never get to really test yourself untill the bell goes ding in a amat-rules comp.
I'm new to this and I want to start training seriously soon and everyone seems to be saying you gotta have good ground game as well as stand-up and clinch but how can you really test and improve your stand-up with 10 ounce gloves and with no big shots or am I just pointing out the obvious obstacles in training MMA ...and all you can do is simply train as close to real as you can ,practically, and get your really 'real' experience in the ring if you want to take it that far and that's it....well fair enough...it seems complicated to me to train for something effectively by 'almost' doing it....but then again it's probably better then doing some ITF TKD and just 'feeling' like you''ll be fine when you get in to the ring for MMA...or conversely we all turn up somewhere every week and kick lumps outa eachother with no pads or rules and watch the carnage on tape afterwards!...Twice a week, focus on stand-up (+clinch), learn some ground game for protection and I should be UFC/PRIDE champ within 6 weeks....right?..... anyway thanks for the frequency of training tip, next question: I'm 26....is that too old to get into this stuff or is that another stupid question....? Also how many years would anyone think it should take a person of decent condition and learning ability to advance to any competition level of MMA if that's what they want and that's how they intend to train ?

kenpo_dave

soretoe wrote:

Sounds smart to me, thanks for the tip.

But here's my problem...what if I want to specialise in striking standing up and train for take downs simply to G'n'P...unlike BJJ I would assume you can't really 'Bang' in sparring even if it was live coz of injuries I wud think, maybe I'm wrong, maybe yee all beat the hell outa eachother in Muai Thai but you get my point....how can someone specialise in stand up if they can't really Bang like they wud want to in an MMA 'small gloves' competition situation. You can train as hard as you want against someone in BJJ coz they'll tap (if their smart) but you can't take someones head off with a big Muai Thai Shin kick and so you may never get to really test yourself untill the bell goes ding in a amat-rules comp.
I'm new to this and I want to start training seriously soon and everyone seems to be saying you gotta have good ground game as well as stand-up and clinch but how can you really test and improve your stand-up with 10 ounce gloves and with no big shots or am I just pointing out the obvious obstacles in training MMA ...and all you can do is simply train as close to real as you can ,practically, and get your really 'real' experience in the ring if you want to take it that far and that's it....well fair enough...it seems complicated to me to train for something effectively by 'almost' doing it....but then again it's probably better then doing some ITF TKD and just 'feeling' like you''ll be fine when you get in to the ring for MMA...or conversely we all turn up somewhere every week and kick lumps outa eachother with no pads or rules and watch the carnage on tape afterwards!...Twice a week, focus on stand-up (+clinch), learn some ground game for protection and I should be UFC/PRIDE champ within 6 weeks....right?..... anyway thanks for the frequency of training tip, next question: I'm 26....is that too old to get into this stuff or is that another stupid question....? Also how many years would anyone think it should take a person of decent condition and learning ability to advance to any competition level of MMA if that's what they want and that's how they intend to train ?

I also started at 26 (last August) and it was really tough at first and although its still tough you do get used to it. As for the question about competition, Ill leave that to the other guys
Feel free to check out www.mmaireland.com and www.kyokushinbudokai.org.

Regards

Dave.

mark.leonard

The way I train is to pick one discipline and focus on it, keeping the others on the back burner but still 'ticking over' so to speak. i.e. train three months of Thai wher eyou are doing 3+ classes of thai a week and then one or two classes of MMA where you keep the rest of it going. Similarily for BJJ, focus on it for a couple of months with regular mma classes to mix it back in.

As for realistic training, John K told me once that Team Milletich (Matt Hughes et al) don't use MMA gloves at all, they only train with light slaps to each other for G'n'P, they work on keeping the position. I'd agree that this is a sound method of training. Similarily you don't need to use small mitts to practice MMA standup, use the biggest boxing gloves you can find and spar with reasonable contact. If you decide to bring in clinch or what have you then go to small gloves (if you must) and only use very light taps to simulate strikes.

I think I was 24 or 25 when I started into BJJ, MMA came a year later, I don't think it is any big deal really.

paddyc

week 1 3 sessions

BJJ
THAI
BJJ

week 2 3 sessions

THAI
BJJ
THAI


repeat week 1 and 2 over and over

paddy

oh and dont be entering amateur thai boxing competitions:p

soretoe

Thanks Mark for that,
has made me think a little differently bout my approach to mma...good stuff!
At the end of the day we can all think of guys in pride and ufc that are capable of going through many oponents with only stand-up skills like chuck and wandy....better gettin really confident in one range and not bad at the other than dividing up all three ranges initially from the get go so that not enuf time is spent in any one range to make any decent progress up the learning curve which is steepest at the start - question is up or down? Where do you want to be....I know I'd rather be up but then I got no ground game yet (come to think of it I prob got no real stand up either but for the sake of argument...)...So if most of us are comming from other martial arts into mma then most of us are more used at least to the concept and theory of stand-up rather than ground and if a fight starts standing why not begin with some serious stand up (with anti-takedown) training first and then as you say mix it with clinch and ground in mind and go from there. My opinion (as weighted as it isn't..) would be that to aim to achieve the perfect all range fighter is too optomistic (randy being the closest I can think of.) and so if stand-up is where you started to learn ma then you should solidify that stand-up skill in a realistic (as poss) mma training environment first and then start to incorp ground work and takedowns. It would seem to me (but what wud I know) that there are more benefits to staying apart in a physical confrontation and using your skill to engage your oponent with strikes that keep you seperated (out of clinch) but still cause damage (such as a KO..as difficult as it may be..) than to purposefully engage in a closecontact ground game with the intention of using bjj to beat a guy because it seems it would be like immediately discounting plan A..to knock the **** outa the guy first when that is the range that most people are accustomed to even if only in theory or semi-contact mode....that is if we admit the inherent difficulty in becomming good enuf at all ranges (i.e. to compete mma). ..
May have used your points Mark to tangent a bit there but I reckon stand-up (with anti-takedown and clinch) is the way to get into this MMA malarky.....Grand so...cheers lads. (Course that isn't likely to prevent me gettin another ass kickin in the league by another bjj guy...ah well...)

soretoe

oh and dont be entering amateur thai boxing competitions:p[/QUOTE]

Havnt got one iota of even the beginnings of an intention of doing anything that even faintly resembles doing that which I can only assume from your advice having never personally been at one that to do so might have some negative implications on my well-being...

Training schedule sounds good though...cheers!

Hopefully the new sbg gym wherever it is will accommodate it..

Colm_OReilly

I'd tend to agree with Roper, or Paddyc train at least twice a week.

I'm at a stage where I can train at high intensity up to twice a day everyday but that's only because I've built up to that level and I've a lifestyle which will accomodate that.

If you want to PM me I can help you work out a training schedule to get the most benefits (I'd need your days when you can train BJJ/Thai and which is your rest day)

It's interesting to note that wrestling wasn't mentioned at all in this. Clinch is IMO the most important range of MMA. Without it a groundfighter will get smashed before he has a chance to work and a striker won't be able to unload. I understand this is a simple metaphor but hopefully the point is communicated.

Peace,
Colm

Clive

How long is a piece of string?

Seriously, though, just get yourself down training. Maybe you'll find that you prefer Muay Thai and want to train in it three times a week, maybe you'll find BJJ hard to pick up and want to focus more time on that. Maybe you'll find yourself getting taken down all the time and need to focus on the clinch more - as the man says, "you'll never know until you go".

As for how much training to do, well again, you need to figure that out as you go. Maybe you're a technical whizz and can get by on one "class" a week, but need to go and work your cardio four times. Maybe you're in fantastic shape, but your technique is off, so you leave out a few sessions in the gym in favour of "classes". Maybe the missus is in your ear or you have to work late some nights, it all depends.

We're very lucky in Ireland in that we have a fairly decent mix of competition levels. Once you start training, maybe hop into a few sub grappling tournaments. For MMA there's the amatuer league.

Doing both of these will give you a good idea of where you're level is, and what you need to work on. Once you ironed out any gaping holes (pardon the mixed metaphor) then maybe you could think about having a semi-pro fight with a few years of training under your belt. See how that goes and take it from there!

FiannaGym.com

What everyone else said... with one addition.

Dont give in to the temptation to "train" or do conditioning or go to the gym at the expence of MMA. If you want to be good at MMA give up "the gym" or what ever else your doing and invest that time in developing a skill set. When the time comes and you need to increase your attributes like strenght and cardio that is far more easy (IMHO) and takes much less time.

Also, wrestle.

Peace

soretoe

Right so lads,
Basically what yee all think is - stop talkin and get your ass on the mat for a bit of juja and MT ,AND, train when you feel you can train, BUT, most of all lose the weights and the 'training' and start rolling with people and sparring with people for long enough to develop a real opinion on this MMA stuff !
Got it, cheers folks - see some of yee on a mat sometime soon -
..now to choose a club...

TwoKingMick

Quick question. Where in rathfarnam are you from?

soretoe

I'm up beside Marlay Park, cross from the three rock hockey club on Grange Road in Marlay Grange.
Why? You up that way ?

soretoe

Just realised that 9 of yee martial arts heads have given me good advice on how to get into MMA and that's pretty cool if you ask me...
Used to think these forums were for geeks but I think that sad opinion is a little outdated now... anyway cheers ...It's like yez want as many new fish like me to join your clubs so you all have some more cannonfodder to beat up on the mat... well whichever club I get down to over the next couple of weeks yee are all welcome to beat the stupidity out of me and teach me a thang or two..

GOAT_Ali

Depends on how proficient you want to be. To stay active and fit, maybe 3-4 times a week, but to be the best or seriously competitive, just train harder than your opponents, could be 5 times a week, could even be 5 times a week, twice a day.......You can never really overtrain in my opinion for a tough combat sport. Ok, 5 hrs a day every day is a bit OTT, but training every day with say a day off every 3 weeks is not unheard of.

TwoKingMick

Thats not hard training. I did that as recreation.