Red Steel (Wii)

Ciaran500

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsmvHRLqE0c&search=red%20steel

Had a really crappy feed from the Nintendo conference and didn't get to see this properly. Thought it sounded excelent in the description but the video has completley surpassed my expectations.

Watch it! Watch it now!

Smellyirishman

That's actually different footage from that shown at the conference. The last two scenes are more or less the same though. Certainly looks interesting alright!

Vegeta

I honestly think this looks so crap it hurts. The way the gun/arm zoom around the screen looks really bad. I think future FPS could be cool using this control system but this looks awful. Kinda like what a cat would cough up

As an FPS without the new control this game would get terrible reviews but i fear just because it has a new control system people are like omg omg omg omg its so kewl n l33t r3dst33l rulz

RE*AC*TOR

wow - that's even cooler.

i want it now. This is the game I'm most looking forward to on the wii.

Ciaran500

Vegeta wrote:

As an FPS without the new control this game would get terrible reviews but i fear just because it has a new control system people are like omg omg omg omg its so kewl n l33t r3dst33l rulz

Why shouldn't they?

Its a completley new way of play and looks like so much fun. Definatly gameplay over graphics.

kaimera

wow. extremely savage!

Crosshairs seemed a tad lazy at times but is the controller 'that' sensitive?

Blowfish

meh, I agree with Vegetta. It looks like a bog standard fps with the wii controls stuck in. The only other difference with it is people surrendering, but in reality, how many gamers would actually let them live anyway. I don't understand why some people are saying the graphics are amazing, tbh the textures looked pretty bland and lacked detail, and the water spilling out of the tank was terrible.

Vegeta

Ciaran500 wrote:

Why shouldn't they?

Its a completley new way of play and looks like so much fun. Definatly gameplay over graphics.

Oh I agree totally but I wasn't referring to the graphics, there's a difference between gameplay and how the game is played.

I love the new point and shoot mechanic but the gameplay itself jus looks like a tired old FPS.

Smellyirishman

Vegeta, I agree that something does look "off" about it, but still, for the first of it's kind it is pretty damn impressive. Remember, it's not all about looks; yes if the game came out on a 360 with it's control, people would laugh but that is not the case. Personally I think I will be able to deal with sub-standard graphics, for above average gameplay (and gameplay that my GF for one could easily enjoy (she hates mouse look) and even my family).

flogen

Blowfish wrote:

meh, I agree with Vegetta. It looks like a bog standard fps with the wii controls stuck in. The only other difference with it is people surrendering, but in reality, how many gamers would actually let them live anyway. I don't understand why some people are saying the graphics are amazing, tbh the textures looked pretty bland and lacked detail, and the water spilling out of the tank was terrible.

Not to you go into the issue of the game being the same as any other FPS (that's your opinion, and frankly it looks like that on the surface but with the controller and lauded AI it should be different), but gamers will be encouraged to make people surrender as bosses will give them different weapons if they do, a type of bonus.

Vegeta

I just want to state for the record I am the biggest critic of a game sacraficing gameplay over graphics. Its all about the gameplay. I commend the devs of redsteel for going this route.

One of my favourite fps games ever is goldeneye hardly a graphical masterpiece but it had lovely level design, savage multiplayer and great length with all the difficulty settings.

I didn't like the level design (very differnt to graphics) in redsteel which is very important to me so that turned me off it straight away, i have seen no multiplayer or heard any talk of it and to me the demo more looked like a "how the wii controller will work on an FPS" which was great, bar the flailing arm/gun on screen but i'd get over that

RE*AC*TOR

A tired old fps? I think you are being a little over-critical.

If you took away the mechanic it wouldn't be as exciting, but in fairness we know very little about the game at this stage. And all the media to this point has just focused on the controls.

So all we have to go on is controls and graphics.

They did mention something about the AI yesterday though - which sound slike it could be cool - if implemented well.

Blowfish

flogen wrote:

Not to you go into the issue of the game being the same as any other FPS (that's your opinion, and frankly it looks like that on the surface but with the controller and lauded AI it should be different), but gamers will be encouraged to make people surrender as bosses will give them different weapons if they do, a type of bonus.

Ah ok good, I hate it when games add 'new unique features' which in reality are completely pointless, if there is a purpose to it, then I am all for it. Maybe it's just me anyway, I tend to get bored of fps's really quickly unless they are pretty amazing. The last I played was Half Life 2 and thought it was great. I played a bit of Halo 2, but thought it was actually pretty poor. Can anyone recommend a good fps to a Ninty n00b?

Vegeta

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

A tired old fps? I think you are being a little over-critical.

If you took away the mechanic it wouldn't be as exciting, but in fairness we know very little about the game at this stage. And all the media to this point has just focused on the controls.

So all we have to go on is controls and graphics.

They did mention something about the AI yesterday though - which sound slike it could be cool - if implemented well.

well halo on the xbox had very good AI, turn up the difficulty and very quickly the grunts display the "clan" behaviour where they stick beside the elite officers. The grunts run away when they are one on one with you and will take cover at any given opportunity. They also display tactical awareness such as flanking.

I am not bashing the game one bit I agree we need to wait a bit until we are loike omg omg omg

As I said i think it was a controller demo rather than a full on game demo, there were even several technical issues with it

Doodee

reminds me of XIII for some reason.

RE*AC*TOR

Doodee wrote:

reminds me of XIII for some reason.

also a ubisoft game IIRC.

hairball

Vegeta wrote:

I didn't like the level design (very differnt to graphics) in redsteel which is very important to me so that turned me off it straight away

so you've played it then??

flogen

Blowfish wrote:

Ah ok good, I hate it when games add 'new unique features' which in reality are completely pointless, if there is a purpose to it, then I am all for it.

I kinda like the balance here myself; I mean you're supposed to be the good guy (and a cop, I think), so technically you should be bringing people to justice, not slaughtering them... but if they made the game force you to get surrenders (and you lose when you kill) that would be horrific so they allow you to do it and make it a challenge to be the better player.

I think (from the mag report a while ago) I read that it starts encouraging you to just mill around hitting everything that moves, and slowly encourages to you force surrenders; from what I understand it takes more skill to disarm an enemy than it does to shoot the fúck out of them, so it's a challenge to the player, one that they can ignore if they like

Vegeta

hairball wrote:

so you've played it then??

no but i saw it with my eyes, an internal area, an external street area and a roof top sword battle

hairball

plus if you want a game where the objective is to kill everything ,take your pick from the thousands already available.
Hate or like what ninty are trying to do, they remain a singular and very important voice in an industry that's basically just resorted to cannibalising itself and regurgitating the same ol'.
Whether or not nintendo ultimate deliver on their very laudable idealogy has yet to be seen, but for the moment they're certainly talking a different game and i'm definitely interested.

hairball

Vegeta wrote:

no but i saw it with my eyes, an internal area, an external street area and a roof top sword battle

ok fair enough, sorry for the smart arse remark, but what i should've said is maybe we should wait til we see more , i'm pretty cynical with stuff that claims to be groundbreaking too, but surely you have to admit the potential for the game and games like it is awesome.

LookingFor

Seems a little sluggish..? Still, I think you'd really need to try it to get a feel for it properly, like with any Wii game, really.

Vegeta

hairball wrote:

ok fair enough, sorry for the smart arse remark, but what i should've said is maybe we should wait til we see more , i'm pretty cynical with stuff that claims to be groundbreaking too, but surely you have to admit the potential for the game and games like it is awesome.

oh I'm with you there 100% i cant wait to see what they do with this bad boy, the tennis game sold me, very childish graphics but so so so much fun i'd say

I agree with the wait til we see more before we lavish games with praise, as the price for the wii is going to be so relatively low i will defo get this and another console either the PS3 or the 360.

hairball

yup.. ithink that's the other thing for me..the price point, even if its 300 eurons or so it'll still be half what the ps3 costs (at its best version) and tbh while MGS4 was a graphical showstopper i think i can wait for directx 10 cards and games for PC for that kinda thing, i want something thats different from the kind of games i play on my pc (its the only way i can justify buying yet another piece of gaming equipment:P)

Fanny Cradock

Blowfish wrote:

Can anyone recommend a good fps to a Ninty n00b?

i've recommended this countless times.. get wolfenstein: enemy territory
without doubt the best FREE fps out there.

http://www.download.com/Return-to-Castle-Wolfenstein-Enemy-Territory-full-install-/3000-7565_4-10243511.html?tag=pop

OctavarIan

Aiming seemed a bit slow, but that was probably the player's fault. I want online sword-fighting deathmatch.

Smellyirishman

Just watched the live footage on Gamespot, the interviewed on of the Devs. They did confirm multiplayer via splitscreen but could not say anything about online because Nintendo have obviously not even mentioned that!

It was a pretty good interview , although not much we don't already know, no buttons need pressing when your sword fighting, em, he mentioned something about how they may not be packing the best graphics but they were able to put more people on screen at once and some other things and that that was next-gen.

At the end, the intervieweer asked "and when is an estimated release date?" knowing full well it was a launch title, french man skipped a few beats and then managed "It will launch alongside the console". Can't blame him for trying.

steviec

From Joystiq:

I had high hopes for Ubisoft's Red Steel, anxiously waiting in line while each person took their turn on the 10-minute demo. Once I actually had a chance to play the game, the experience was somewhat disappointing. The biggest problem with the game (and most worrisome to Nintendo) is its control scheme. What we found playing Red Steel, along with many other third-party Wii titles, is that the controls felt too sensitive. There is an issue with moving your remote slightly out of the range of the TV-mounted system, resulting in the cross hairs going stir-crazy off to the side of the screen. If Ubisoft can fix the sensitivity, then the rest of the control scheme is intuitively laid out and works well. Also, the sword fighting is pretty lacking, with only a variety of slashes available. The sword does not follow every move, and each slash requires a dramatic sweep of the remote -- the simplicity gave the sword-fighting moments the impression of a minigame.

Thats somewhat worrying. I thought the sword actually followed what you did, not another pointless gesture recognition system like Zelda.

KdjaCL

I would buy that game if it was wire frame, Vegeta wtf? seriously wtf???? Bog standard FPS so what isnt a bog standard FPS? Shoot people with guns ...its that simple.



kdjac

Smellyirishman

Steve, in the interview I talked about the Dev actually said that sensitivity could be adjusted in-game (and not within the wii console), so I am sure it's definitly something they are looking at, and it's entirly possible that the option menu was unavailable in an early E3 demo. Also, I am pretty surprised that they thought the sword movements would have been 100% translated, I was expecting pre-defined animations (and I thought that was pretty clearly portrayed).

Not defeding something I have not played, just stating my views!

steviec

Smellyirishman wrote:

Steve, in the interview I talked about the Dev actually said that sensitivity could be adjusted in-game (and not within the wii console), so I am sure it's definitly something they are looking at, and it's entirly possible that the option menu was unavailable in an early E3 demo. Also, I am pretty surprised that they thought the sword movements would have been 100% translated, I was expecting pre-defined animations (and I thought that was pretty clearly portrayed).

Not defeding something I have not played, just stating my views!

If its pre-defined animations then whats the point? It's just replacing buttons with gesture recognition and adding nothing to the gameplay. Zelda was the same.

If this controller is going to take off they need to make better use of it. There's no reason for the sword not to move in 3d space just as the controller does. Then and only then will it have an advantage over a conventional joypad.

madrab

yeah, im let down by the lack of proper sword fighting, but hopefully someone will try it (come on lucasarts finally bring out a starwars game that would interest me)

ObeyGiant

madrab wrote:

yeah, im let down by the lack of proper sword fighting, but hopefully someone will try it (come on lucasarts finally bring out a starwars game that would interest me)

Oh boy. With the speaker in the Wiimote giving off the lightsabre's hummmm? Awesome. Someone better be working on this right now.

Vegeta

KdjaC wrote:

I would buy that game if it was wire frame

Man if you're happy with this level of game development thats cool.

What other than the controls is this game doing that impresses you so much. I watched it twice and thought it worse on the second viewing

Smellyirishman

steviec wrote:

If its pre-defined animations then whats the point? It's just replacing buttons with gesture recognition and adding nothing to the gameplay.

It adds an intuative (and fun) aspect unavailable with button pressing. Look at the tennis game, it is also basically gesture recognition for the different strokes but I could see my family getting into that MUCH easier than before. I do agree that eventually (and star wars would be perfect, even for batting away the bullets or something) there should be a real push towards trying something in an entirly un-defined way, but I was not expecting it with the first try. I mean, something was always going to be "scripted" be it the enemy reaction, the parrys or swings. Sure, moving the sword in exact accordance with the user would probably be possible, but it would bring up so many issue with regards looks, clipping and fluidity (<- word?) among others. Just look at the gun in the game, it moves in "real-move" (Did I invent a new term? I hope it doesn't catch cause it sucks!) and you can see it looks awkward and unnatural sometimes. I am sure it will get there in time, but Rome wasn't built in a day.

Who knows, maybe in Red Steel 2.

Vegeta wrote:

What other than the controls is this game doing that impresses you so much.

What, other than the control, is this console doing that impresses you?

ObeyGiant

Vegeta wrote:

What other than the controls is this game doing that impresses you so much.

Isn't that enough? If we're not allowed to get excited about a completely new way of controlling first person shooters what can we get excited about?

Smellyirishman

ObeyGiant wrote:

what can we get excited about?

Fifa 2008; Season August-Dec
Fifa 2008; Season Jan-May
Fifa 2008; UEFA cup edition
Fifa 2008; Champions League edition
Fifa 2008; Pre-League Friendlies.


What more could you possibly want?! Enough of this innovation crap, give us more of the same!

Blub2k4

Change is bad mmmmmmmkay.

People are always intimidated by Nintendo, if only people could get out of the console loyalty mindset, as a company Nintendo know how to make good games, no one else comes close.

This controller follows on from the donkey konga bongos, Nintendo are alone in the console world in reacting to criticism that they are turning kids in to fat couch potatoes, I applaud them for innovating at the same time as adding value for non-couch potatoes.

Vegeta

Smellyirishman wrote:

What, other than the control, is this console doing that impresses you?

Well the look of Zelda impressed me and I don't care if I had to play it with my shoe. I will prob buy it on the cube anyway even though i intend to buy a wii.

The new Super Mario level design looked very good

The way the console is always connected so that when it is turned on there may be little surprises awaiting me.

All of those things are beside my main point though, that red steel game looks average beyond belief. What happens in 12 months time when the control system isn't new anymore and games go back to be being judged by their content

well i simply get more excited about games like Half-Life 2 or Halo cos I feel they brought new things to both PC and console FPS games and did something to improve the genre. Whereas redsteel looks like the same old thing but with a new controller.

Its like Black, great graphics, lovely details, played nicely. Hyped up to the bollox, destructable environments this explosions that. In the end it was a very short game with no multiplayer

Vegeta

ObeyGiant wrote:

Isn't that enough? If we're not allowed to get excited about a completely new way of controlling first person shooters what can we get excited about?

I agree i am excited but i'd rather be saying "man this game would be class with a standard controller let alone this kick ass wii controller" rather than saying "this control system is sweet but the game is a bit sh1te"

Vegeta

Smellyirishman wrote:

Fifa 2008; Pre-League Friendlies.

What more could you possibly want?! Enough of this innovation crap, give us more of the same!

ROFL

Smellyirishman

Yes, some good points, although I doubt you are going to buy the GC version of Zelda if you have a Wii, and the always on things is probably rarely going to update much (See, 360 content updates, although hopefully I am proved wrong). Anyway, Black was the peak of a generation, the final culmination of it's power. Red Steel is the first of it's kind.

I agree with you, that in terms of graphics and such, it does not look like much of a milestone but I guess none of us will really know until we get our hands on it and videos just cannot portray the feeling of the new control, ultimatly we will only be able to experience that first hand.

Vegeta

yeah I am a natural cynic though, i should write for edge (if I had any talent) so i get to stomp all over new games.

Yeah i know I am being a bit rough on the game and could very easily end up eating my words as they do have a way to go before it is released and could improve the things i disliked

Placebo

graphics look as good as anyother fps ive seen, its just the lighting ,
the pictures quite darkt o notice the cross hair, the way its edited makes it seem lazy, i doubt it will be,
looks amazing.

hairball

Vegeta wrote:

I agree i am excited but i'd rather be saying "man this game would be class with a standard controller let alone this kick ass wii controller" rather than saying "this control system is sweet but the game is a bit sh1te"

agreed..it needs to have both qualities