Monaghan V Armagh

Carb

I thought I start this thread good and early so as many people as possible would have a chance to say that "Monaghan haven't a hope", and then I'll be able to come back on Monday and laugh:D

Seriously though, what are peoples opinions on this one. I know the pools would indicate that Armagh are going to win this, and easily according to some predictions. I would be expecting this to be a close enough encounter, as long as our backs don't leak a couple of easy goals. Armagh in my opinion are past their best, and Monaghan should be a lot quicker than a lot of their players, so hopefully the weather will do us a favour as wet weather is inclined to favour more physical teams.

I know Monaghan didn't show that well in the league (same could be said of Armagh) but the performances were not as bad as relegation would suggest. It could easily have been very different. I think they'll have learned a lot from playing Tyrone/Kerry/Dublin and Mayo and they should be going into this years championship with their feet more firmly on the ground than last year. Their performance against Derry last year was the worst I'd seen until the Cork game this year. Their main weakness would be a lack of leaders on the field, and the ability to finish off teams. They seem to play their best in high tempo, free flowing games, and my main concern is Armaghs ability to slow a game down to their speed. If this happens, it could be a waste of an admission fee.

Culchie

If Monaghan can keep within a respectable score of Armagh and take the season from there, I think they should be happy.
A drubbing could knock their confidence and ruin their season before it even starts.

Monaghan have come a long way, but are way behind Armagh. Don't forget Armagh won U-21 championship with a terrific team in 2004, so although some of their older players are past their best, there is a conveyor belt of talent coming through.

mchurl

Monaghan have some very talented players as i have experenced first hand this year from playing college football, but i still feel Armagh will be one step too far for them. They are a decent outfit though and i feel a little sorry for them that they have come p against Armagh once again.

Armagh on the other hand seem to be getting on but are the old war horses. They will be able to blood some of the u-21 team as Culchie said, and if these lads gel in with some of the olderr boys, Armagh will be there or there abouts come September.

blackbelt

Freeman might trouble the Armagh defense but I would expect Armagh to do what a lot of people are expecting them to do by slowing the game down to a physical one stopping Monaghans momentum.

I think Monaghan will have a good run in the qualifiers,maybe getting to the third round but I expect Armagh to take the Ulster title.

Carb

blackbelt wrote:

Freeman might trouble the Armagh defense but I would expect Armagh to do what a lot of people are expecting them to do by slowing the game down to a physical one stopping Monaghans momentum.

I think Monaghan will have a good run in the qualifiers,maybe getting to the third round but I expect Armagh to take the Ulster title.

I suppose a lot it will depend on the referee, and whether he'll encourage free flowing football, or becomes whistle happy. As for Armagh winning Ulster, it will only happen if they get Tyrone on a bad day, as i think there is a bit of a gap emerging.

Culchie - I know its always good to see new players at U21 level, but it doesn't always translate into good senior teams. Monaghan and Tyrone for a long time had U21 teams which were nearly of equal quality, but look where Tyrone are now. This probably down to the stuctures they have in place to encourage younger players though the ranks. IMO, Armagh have shown little sign of letting younger players have a chance in the Championship, and it will probably take Joe Kiernans resignation to make a fresh approach. I know thats probably controversial, but Monaghan made the same mistake in the eighties, where they stuck with the old guard, year after year, giving it one last go, and nearly twenty years later, we're still trying to get going again. Take Bellew for example, whatever about his methods, nobody is going to come out of the U21 scene and do what he does. I also think that it was no coincidence that Armagh's rise was at the same time as Crossmaglen were at their peak

On the plus side for Monaghan, most of our players, especially the better ones, are all in their early to mid twenties, so they'll be around for a while to come. There are also good signs in the school competitions and local football, as no one team is dominating the senior competitions. My only concern is that there is no push made by the county board to increase awareness of the county minors and U21s.

I think Monaghan showed last year against Tyrone for 25 mins that the ability is there. But it takes a number of years for a team to be physically capable of doing that for 70 mins. It won't be this year. They also need to become consistent. Armagh and Tyrone won All Irelands because they could repeat the same performance wek after week. That would be my biggest concern about Sunday. Monaghan are at a stage where they could beat Armagh on the day, or they could lose by 15 points. I suppose only time will tell.

ardmacha

Armagh have several "experienced" players in their team, however a third of the team didn't play in 2002 and half weren't around when we won the first Ulster title in 1999. There was no gap between us and Tyrone last year. Armagh didn't give a damn about the league. There is a definite question about whether we can raise their performance again, but if they do then they will beat Monaghan. As an Armagh fan, (you'd never have guessed) I hope Monaghan put it up to Armagh and that we win narrowly. This way Monaghan will be encouraged for the qualifiers and people will still write Armagh off as being old men who are finished.

Carb

ardmacha wrote:

Armagh have several "experienced" players in their team, however a third of the team didn't play in 2002 and half weren't around when we won the first Ulster title in 1999. There was no gap between us and Tyrone last year. Armagh didn't give a damn about the league. There is a definite question about whether we can raise their performance again, but if they do then they will beat Monaghan. As an Armagh fan, (you'd never have guessed) I hope Monaghan put it up to Armagh and that we win narrowly. This way Monaghan will be encouraged for the qualifiers and people will still write Armagh off as being old men who are finished.

I don't think anyone would say Armagh are a team of old men who are finished. I think they will be in the reckoning for a number of years, especially if they can gel newcomers into the team.You mention that half the current team wasn't around in 1999, so the other side is that half were. I know it seems like only yesterday, but thats seven long years of tough championship football. Time takes it toll, and with the intensity and pace that football is played now, I think Armagh could start to find things tougher.

That said, they are currently amongst the top 3 in the country. My point about the gap with Tyrone, is that I think the current Tyrone team are as good as the year they won their first Sam, I don't think the current Armagh team are as good as their 2002 team. A lot of teams use to fear Armagh, but I feel there are a few more counties out there who are now growing in confidence that if they put in a good performance, then on the day they can win. This may not happen on Sunday, but I think by Aug/Sep, some people might agree with me. If Armagh are lifting Sam by then, feel free to ressurect this thread, and I'll be the first to admit I was wrong.

cruiserweight

Monaghan have named their team for Sunday

MONAGHAN (SF v Armagh) - S Duffy; G McQuaid, J Coyle, C Flanagan; D Freeman, V Corey, D McArdle; E Lennon, P Finlay; D Clerkin, S Gollogly, J McElroy; T Freeman, R Ronaghan, R Woods.

smashey

Beware Armagh. By their standards, they had a poor league campaign and I would be fairly sure they will want to put down a big marker on Sunday.

solskjaer20

MOnaghan to casue first upset of the Championship.

BUt only if they can stop Armagh scoring more than one goal.

WarZoneBrother

Come on Monaghan yee i have hope that there gonna win it....i am probably the only one that thinks so but sure no harm done if they play well they will have a chance...

Concannon7

Armagh 0-10
Monaghan 0-10

A replay will be needed to sort this out. Not bad by Monaghan at all, I expected Armagh to win but I knew Monaghan would make it hard. I hope Armagh dont just run way with it in the replay.

WarZoneBrother

Galway_mad_bhoy wrote:

Armagh 0-10
Monaghan 0-10

A replay will be needed to sort this out. Not bad by Monaghan at all, I expected Armagh to win but I knew Monaghan would make it hard. I hope Armagh dont just run way with it in the replay.

good come back from monaghan i knew it was gonna be close and i would say armagh might just get it next time woods should have scored that close free..

Carb

So this thread gets to go on a bit longer than a lot of people expected.;)

I certainly think Monaghan will have got a confidence boost from yesterday. Our backs played quite well, and our midfield had the beating of Armaghs. Its just a pity our forwards seemed to drift out of the game for so long. God only knows why Rory Woods kept taking the frees. And as for the chance that was missed at the end, it nearly would have been easier to put it over the bar.

A draw was probably a fair result, and I'm sure both teams will be hoping for better weather. Hopefully Monaghan will have learned that they're not going to beat the likes of Armagh by playing for 25 mins. No matter what happens next Saturday, at least they've corrected a lot of the rubbish that was said on the radio and in the papers.

PS. Our minors really blew it. I don't think they can blame anyone but themselves. How three players ended up on the line in such a clean game is beyond me. When has anyone been sent off before for saying something to the umpire.

PeeJa

Please our Lord let it be dry on saturday!!!

2 reasons for that, 1, i got drenched 2, i think the dry ball will suit us better.

Was delighted to see top class display from Paul Duffy who had to be replaced due to severe cramp. Why Mal Mackin was taken off i will never know, for my money he was playing well and there was no sign of injury.

We seen a below par display from our midfield and full forwards with the exception of Oisin Mc Conville who dug us out of a deep hole on a couple of occasions with well taken scores from frees and play. Kieran Mc Kinney had a good day also with a great point blank save from Freeman.

Great to still be in the front door even though we are on the door step, but i feel that with so many of our boys not playing as hoped then we might edge out a 3-4 point victory.

By the way the game is at 5.30 in Clones and reliable sources tell me it is live on Net2.

hallelujah

I thought €20 entry was a bit ridiculus and no student prices. Tut tut Mr. GAA.

Carb

PeeJa wrote:

Please our Lord let it be dry on saturday!!!

2 reasons for that, 1, i got drenched 2, i think the dry ball will suit us better.

Was delighted to see top class display from Paul Duffy who had to be replaced due to severe cramp. Why Mal Mackin was taken off i will never know, for my money he was playing well and there was no sign of injury.

We seen a below par display from our midfield and full forwards with the exception of Oisin Mc Conville who dug us out of a deep hole on a couple of occasions with well taken scores from frees and play. Kieran Mc Kinney had a good day also with a great point blank save from Freeman.

Great to still be in the front door even though we are on the door step, but i feel that with so many of our boys not playing as hoped then we might edge out a 3-4 point victory.

By the way the game is at 5.30 in Clones and reliable sources tell me it is live on Net2.

Feck them anyway. I've a concert in Croker that evening so I'll never make the two. I can understand the Heineken Cup thing, although Armagh and Monaghan are hardly the home of rugby, but even if you stay at home to watch it, you still wouldn't make it to Clones on time, especially if there is a sizeable crowd.

On the weather, I don't think it helped either side, as there was some dreadful passing. I think Monaghans backs playing well had a large part in Armaghs forwards playing bad. In the first 15/20 mins, Armagh tried running at Monaghan, but kept getting smothered up, and after that the tactic seemed to be hit the ball long to Ronan Clarke for him to try breaking it down, which rarely worked. I also have doubts as to whether Armaghs midfield is mobile enough, although Eoin Lennon could do with moving into second gear every now and again. It was also commented on TV last night, and I'd have to agree, that 5 out of Monaghans 6 forwards weren't at the races yesterday. My main fear would be that our backs mightn't play two good games back to back,but if they do, I think we have a great chance. One of the main pluses for us though, is that we now seem to able to match teams like Armagh physically

Carb

hallelujah wrote:

I thought €20 entry was a bit ridiculus and no student prices. Tut tut Mr. GAA.

Haha, €20 to get a wet a**e. You should have saved yourself a fiver and got wet on the hill:D

No student prices was a bit greedy.

mchurl

poor form from the GAA again on the prices.

As for the game itself, a marvellous comeback by monaghan to draw level after looking dea and buried with 15 to go. Their forwards didnt really perform for them but the conditions were very bad. The same could also be said of Armagh's forwards. I expect the replay to be another hotly contested affair, but i just wnder will the attendance be affected by the rugby being on the same day?

solskjaer20

Can't see rugby having much bearing on crowds at Ulster football.

Isnt much rugby played in Armagh or Monaghan and most neutrals would probably pick a good hard-hitting game of football over rugby to be honest.

Shaque attack

will the replay be televised?

cruiserweight

Shaque attack wrote:

will the replay be televised?

Looks like it will

Armchair fans of GAA, rugby and boxing are certainly in for a real feast of sporting action on Saturday afternoon.

Both BBC and RTE were already committed to showing the Heineken Cup final between Munster and Biarritz, while ITV are screening the big boxing event featuring two world titles fights involving Eamonn Magee and Scott Harrison and Amir from the King's Hall live.

And now RTE has confirmed it will provide live coverage of the Bank of Ireland Ulster senior football championship replay from Clones.

To accomodate the live coverage, the Armagh and Monaghan match will now have a 5.30pm start so preventing a clash with the rugby match in Cardiff.

Only last month the Allianz Football League final between Kerry and Galway was played in Limerick the same afternoon as the Heineken Cup semi-final between Leinster and Munster went ahead in Landsdowne Road.

Over 24,000 attended the drawn Monaghan and Armagh game on Sunday.

But the fact that the game is now being played on a Saturday coupled with live television effectively means the attendance will be considerably reduced.

Armagh's main concern is with the Monaghan replay, but their minors, the defending Ulster champions have been dealt a double whammy.

Two players - full forward Stefan Forker and right half back Damian McKenna - were handed straight red cards in the course of the victory over Monaghan and will miss the Ulster Championship semi-final against Fermanagh or Antrim.

It's certainly the last thing Armagh manager Paul Kelly needed as he continues to plot Armagh's defence of the championship.

Shaque attack

excellent

Carb

I only got to see the last 25mins of this game thanks to the fecking genius who thought it would be a good idea to close a section of the M1 on the day of a concert in Croke Park.

From what I heard and from what I seen, Monaghan seemed to put it up quite well to Armagh and the six point margin was probably flattering for Armagh. I'd imagine Monaghan have lost no credibility, avoiding the 14/15 point defeat that some people were predicting, where as if they'd won last week it would have been put down as Armagh were having a bad day. Whats more concerning is that Freeman doesn't seem to be firing on all cylinders. Maybe an easy qualifiying draw, if such a thing exists, will get his confidence back. I can't imagine may teams would regarding getting Monaghan in the qualifiers as the dream draw, even if that idiiot Colm O'Rourke doesn't regard Monaghan as a "real team".

I was going to mention the man in black, but thats not going to change anything now.

homerjk

They put it up kinda well in the first half, and the first 10 mintues in the second half. I think people saying that the score flattered Armagh flatters the hell out of Monaghan because the were quite poor. Again we got two points that werent so you could say it was an 8 point defeat, close enough to the 10 point one people were predicting.
As was mentioned before there was no way the Armagh forwards were going to play as bad last week and to top it off the Monaghan backs didnt play their best either. Monaghan stood back and let them run through to their hearts delight whereas when we went up field we ran into a wall just inside the 45.

Overall I'm not that disheartened beacuse a lot of our players didnt play that well, Damien Freeman and Stephen Gollogly the main ones. Not to mention Tommy, fair enough he had two bad misses but Andy Mallon has Tommys cards well marked.
I just get the feeling the Banty hasnt got a notion. Monaghans tactics (or lack there of) were hap-hazard to say the least. They were switching every 10 minutes and no-one had a clue what they were doing. Again on the tactics, you really have to wonder, last week in the pissing rain we played ball after ball into Tommy on the ground only to watch it skid away. 6 days on, completey dry, high ball after high ball! What were they thinking?! As for Ciaran Hanratty nothing more needs to be said. Whatever happened to that Paul Meegan fella, God he was a great footballer.

I'll be happy to get through one maybe two rounds of the qualifiers as I seriously suspect with all the heart the banty has he hasnt got the brains and GAA in this day and age is all about brains, research, tactics. Rumour has it, his half time talk was "Go out there and play a bit of ball". Its 2006 not 1986.:(

Carb

My point about the score been flattering was based on the fact that anyone I'd spoken to seemed to think Monaghan should have been at least 5/6 points up at half time. I've also heard that the Armaghs goal came directly after a foul on a Monaghan player, but he was deemed to have over carried. Although, I believe the referee didn't do anyone any favours.

Fair enough at Championship level, success will be measured by your ability to take scores, and in the last 10 mins, it was Armaghs ability and experience that allowed them to pull away. The newspapers all gleefully pointed out that Monaghan didn't score in last 16 mins, but also in this period Monaghan had roughly 50% of possession, 6/7 scoring opportunities and 1/2 dubious decisions against them.

As for Banty, I think its too early make a call on him. This time last year, I think Monaghan were worse. Remember the game against Derry. Horrendous stuff. I know there is no silverware this year, but at least we put it up to Armagh this year, and if we were playing Armagh again tomorrow, I'd still stick some money on Monaghan. Tactically, I'd be a little concerned. Freeman was kept stuck in the corner for both matches. If he's not going to get the space, move him out and let him roam a bit. He mightn't get the scores but at least he'd be a reliable outlet for the half back line, and he'd have more space to run at defences. Our half forwards seemed to disappear on Saturday.