Oblivion are 5x attribute bonuses essential?

Mad Mike

(moved from Role Playing Forum)

I'm just starting to get into Oblivion and I have a question with regard to levelling up.

Has anyone out there finished the main quest without exploiting the game mechanics to get 5x attribute bonuses?

I have seen a lot of complaints on the net that levelling up is broken in Oblivion. Specifically these complaints seem to relate to the fact that in order to get lots of 5x attribute bonuses you need to exploit the game mechanics (for example using your minor skills more than your major skills). I have read that if you don't do this you will level too quickly without getting 5x bonuses and you wont be able to survive the tougher encounters that higher levels bring.

I have only levelled once so far and I got no 5x bonuses. I think I had a couple of 2x and one 3x.

The thing is I really don't want to start "playing the game mechanics". I want to lose myself in that beautiful immersive world without turning into a bunny hopping idiot who runs around in his underpants (or any simliar attribute maximising exploit).

So my question for those who have finished the main quest - Will I be unable to make progress if I do not get lots of 5x bonuses or can I just continue playing the way I like to play.

Vegeta

Mad Mike wrote:

(moved from Role Playing Forum)

I'm just starting to get into Oblivion and I have a question with regard to levelling up.

Has anyone out there finished the main quest without exploiting the game mechanics to get 5x attribute bonuses?

I have seen a lot of complaints on the net that levelling up is broken in Oblivion. Specifically these complaints seem to relate to the fact that in order to get lots of 5x attribute bonuses you need to exploit the game mechanics (for example using your minor skills more than your major skills). I have read that if you don't do this you will level too quickly without getting 5x bonuses and you wont be able to survive the tougher encounters that higher levels bring.

I have only levelled once so far and I got no 5x bonuses. I think I had a couple of 2x and one 3x.

The thing is I really don't want to start "playing the game mechanics". I want to lose myself in that beautiful immersive world without turning into a bunny hopping idiot who runs around in his underpants (or any simliar attribute maximising exploit).

So my question for those who have finished the main quest - Will I be unable to make progress if I do not get lots of 5x bonuses or can I just continue playing the way I like to play.

you'll be fine just play away, I have never got one x5 bonus as it takes all the fun out of the game having to grind away raising attributes

Vodka Junkie

Mad Mike wrote:

(moved from Role Playing Forum)

So my question for those who have finished the main quest - Will I be unable to make progress if I do not get lots of 5x bonuses or can I just continue playing the way I like to play.

I was worried as well about this for a while especially when I had to use hit and run (very far away) tactics on any oblivion creature tougher than a scamp, I'd never even gained more than a x4 multiplier, and that was rare enough, but then I realised... The enemies do level in relation to you but only your basic character without all the bonuses gained from equipment. I got myself a nice set of armour and some savage weapons lastnight and now I'm showing them who pwns who MWhahahaaaa. So yeah twill all be grand just keep soldering on.

Zillah

Whatever Sand says, damn his numerical soul, its almost irrelevant what modifiers you get. Unless your have obessesive compulsive disorder, play the game and don't worry about numbers.

Duras

Don't use them!! You gotta run away from those numbers! 4x 8x 15x 16x ...

I got few 5x bonuses btw and I didn't exploit any mechanics of the game. I just played.

Sand

I'm just starting to get into Oblivion and I have a question with regard to levelling up.

Has anyone out there finished the main quest without exploiting the game mechanics to get 5x attribute bonuses?

Im sure plenty of people have, so its certainly doable. You can complete the main quest as level 2 (and thats a req for one mission only) if you want, so theres no need to level up at all really, let alone level up with x5s. Actually, if youre not going to go for x5s, the next best thing to do is not to level up.

I have seen a lot of complaints on the net that levelling up is broken in Oblivion. Specifically these complaints seem to relate to the fact that in order to get lots of 5x attribute bonuses you need to exploit the game mechanics (for example using your minor skills more than your major skills). I have read that if you don't do this you will level too quickly without getting 5x bonuses and you wont be able to survive the tougher encounters that higher levels bring.

Theyre fupped up thats for sure, but theyre not broken. Morrowind was the exact same, the only difference being that you could train as many points as you wanted each level. So you could raise your ten, take your gold and spend it to quickly boost your minor 20, and level to the max with a minimum of fuss.

You cant train more than 5 in Oblivion so you need to do it the hard way. The thing is, you dont have to grind. You dont really have to level at all to win the game? Theres absolutely no need or point to levelling beyond level 2 bar opening a few side quests. Why bother levelling? To get more powerful? If youre not hitting at *least* x3-4 in combat attributes each level you wont get more powerful, youll get assraped by scamps. Levels have practically no relation at all to your strength. They only make your enemies stronger. Attributes & Skills is where its at.

If you want to get +5s, its very simple - just dont raise your tenth and final major point until youve raised youre other 20 minors. Thats all there is to it. Dont be in a rush to level. Theres no point to levelling other than raising your attributes. A level 20 character is not inherently stronger than a level 10.

Of course, you dont have to play it that way, but you can either level too fast and hit a period of frustration where monsters are tough and magic items to compensate are wimpy, or take your time and breeze through the game. The guys who ran into problems with relatively strong monsters simply fell behind what Bethesda assumed was the minimum ability for a character of that level. Best way to avoid that frustration without worrying about modifiers is not to level past 2nd.

So my question for those who have finished the main quest - Will I be unable to make progress if I do not get lots of 5x bonuses or can I just continue playing the way I like to play.

You dont even have to level past 2 to complete the main quest. Get to level 2, then dont level and youll never have to worry about modifiers at all. You can even do Ring impressions "She never sleeps!"

Whatever Sand says, damn his numerical soul, its almost irrelevant what modifiers you get. Unless your have obessesive compulsive disorder, play the game and don't worry about numbers.

Its almost irrelevant to level if youre not looking to get modifiers. In your twisted black heart, you know this to be true!

chamlis

Is it safe to assume that you yourself are only at level 2? Or is this all "just a theory".......?

Zillah

Sand wrote:

Its almost irrelevant to level if youre not looking to get modifiers. In your twisted black heart, you know this to be true!

Leveling and accepting the logical x2 or 3 modifiers makes perfect sense. It also increases your fatigue, health and magicka.

Also, under Oblivion's stupid level scaling system you only get better artifacts and see more interesting enemies at higher levels.

Vegeta

I have no problem getting my ass handed to me in a game like this infact i enjoy it cos then i say to myself, not strong enough yet but i'll be back and I go and do some other missions thats why i love games like this. If something is annoying you go and do something that you enjoy

Mad Mike

Yes I have read that you can complete the main quest at a very low level but I would find that very unsatisfying. I do aspire to increasing my abilities and getting access to more powerful weapons and spells.

I dont mind a challenge so I'm just going to play my Breton Nightblade as the whim takes me. The nightblade seem to me to have a great combination of major skills by the way - Destruction for nuking, Restoration for healing, Alteration for buffs with Blade and Light Armour for when mana runs out - Go me!!!

Sand

Is it safe to assume that you yourself are only at level 2? Or is this all "just a theory".......?

No, I go for the +5s, levelling is a prequisite to getting them so I have levelled past 2. Id imagine my PC is of much lower level than a lot of other PCs though for the time played, only 15 IIRC but she rips arms of enemies and beats them to death with them.

As for theory, the enemies scale to your level. There are two that dont that I know of -

Umbra and the Grey/Gray Prince.

Neither are related to the main quest. What you do require for the main quest is

a Daedric side quest reward - Azura's Star is the one the Main quest directs you to but any will do. Azuras Star

side quest has a minimum level requirement of Level 2. None of the other quests in the main storyline have a level requirement, directly or indirectly. You can get 100 in all your minor skills, and Doomstone/Heavenstone powers, so you will rip the arms and legs of Level 2 opponents. You wont be able to boost attributes, but if for some reason you need to, you can use Alchemy or Restoration spells to do so. You can complete many of the main story quests without fighting at all as well if need be.

Theres no reason to level past 2, other than to get attribute boosts.

Leveling and accepting the logical x2 or 3 modifiers makes perfect sense. It also increases your fatigue, health and magicka.

Which you only need because enemies fatigue, health and magicka are increased as your level increases. If youre not *exceeding* the beefed up monsters with each level, then youre falling behind - which is the rut a lot of people fell into, making them angry about levelling.

IMO, if youre going to level its for the Attribute modifiers. Attributes are the real "levels". These are what open up news options and styles of play. My PC started out as a orthodox archer, she can now handle a mission via stealth, archery, or close up butchery with equal ease, and her magic skills are coming along nicely as well to add even more options. This is before I accent her abilities with magical items. I can experience/explore more of the game with this character than most will in 3 or 4 replays of the entire game.

Why rush to level and accept +2 or +3s when if you just paced yourself youd pick up +5s to make your character actually stronger? I simply dont get why people throw away the bonus. Sure, you can do it, much as you can complete the game as level 2. Both are strange to me though.

I have no problem getting my ass handed to me in a game like this infact i enjoy it cos then i say to myself, not strong enough yet but i'll be back and I go and do some other missions thats why i love games like this. If something is annoying you go and do something that you enjoy

Thats the thing - the levelling system was designed to prevent people getting their ass handed to them, to allow people to do whatever they want whenever they want. To be "heroic" from level 1. You should never be in a position where youre getting mauled by the same creatures you killed easily 3 or 4 levels back, regardless of your gear.

Yes I have read that you can complete the main quest at a very low level but I would find that very unsatisfying. I do aspire to increasing my abilities and getting access to more powerful weapons and spells.

I agree 100%. My real satisfaction from the game comes from building a top notch PC, more than completing the quests. Completing the quest at Level 2 is doable but why bother?

I dont mind a challenge so I'm just going to play my Breton Nightblade as the whim takes me. The nightblade seem to me to have a great combination of major skills by the way - Destruction for nuking, Restoration for healing, Alteration for buffs with Blade and Light Armour for when mana runs out - Go me!!!

Definitly, its not like Im going to burst into your house and demand you play the game the way I do If you do run into any troubles with levelled monsters you can simply adjust the difficulty down a tad as well so youre never stuck.

Vodka Junkie

Sand wrote:

Why rush to level and accept +2 or +3s when if you just paced yourself youd pick up +5s to make your character actually stronger? I simply dont get why people throw away the bonus. Sure, you can do it, much as you can complete the game as level 2. Both are strange to me though.

Believe me I know what you're saying and I've done it extensively in the past with Morrowind, the thing is though that it was much easier in Morrowind as it didn't have the trainer cap of 5/lvl. This meant that you could take time out from you chosen guild missions with minimal interferance to the flowing nature of their storylines, but I find that it's much more fun to just roll with the x2s and x3s in order to better enjoy the story without breaking it.

Sand wrote:

Thats the thing - the levelling system was designed to prevent people getting their ass handed to them, to allow people to do whatever they want whenever they want. To be "heroic" from level 1. You should never be in a position where youre getting mauled by the same creatures you killed easily 3 or 4 levels back, regardless of your gear.

I think the opening up of tougher species of opponents alleviates this somewhat. Getting mauled by a Clannfear you would have annialated a few levels earlier isn't the same as getting mauled by a Spider Daedra when it would have been a Clannfear a few levels back as is usually the case. Anyway I play a mage character so what could I possibly have to fear from anyone??? Who said "silence"? come out where I can see you!!!

Sand wrote:

Definitly, its not like Im going to burst into your house and demand you play the game the way I do If you do run into any troubles with levelled monsters you can simply adjust the difficulty down a tad as well so youre never stuck.

Or my personal favourite of run away and live to fight another day. (i.e. come back with a big hairy weapon of paralysis )

Zillah

Sand wrote:

Why rush to level and accept +2 or +3s when if you just paced yourself youd pick up +5s to make your character actually stronger?

You've got it backwards. The game was designed to level up after a certain about of skill increases. So leveling up when it goes "LEVEL UP!" is not rushing it, its playing it exactly how it was intended.

I simply dont get why people throw away the bonus. Sure, you can do it, much as you can complete the game as level 2. Both are strange to me though.

Playing the game exactly how it was intended is strange to you? The maximum bonus isn't neccessary, you become more powerful, just not absolutely as powerful as you might have done.

Mad Mike

Well I'm playing away anyway trying not to play too much attention to the stats.

Im not quite reconciled with the auto levelling up of monsters however. Now I know that I can complete the main quest at a very low level I wonder why I should bother to do all those side quests. Im level 4 and I've just got to the abbey to hand in the necklace. I passed a couple of dungeons on the way and I had a dilemma - Should I go in now and clear them out for easy kills or should I wait a bit for harder kills but better loot? I think I preferred the old method where you pass a tough region at low level and dream of the day you will be strong enough to take it one. If I remember Morrowind correctly the random spawns in the countryside were linked to your character level but quest and Dungeon characters had fixed levels. That seems like a better system to me.

Zillah

Mad Mike wrote:

Now I know that I can complete the main quest at a very low level I wonder why I should bother to do all those side quests.

:eek: For fun...?

Im level 4 and I've just got to the abbey to hand in the necklace. I passed a couple of dungeons on the way and I had a dilemma - Should I go in now and clear them out for easy kills or should I wait a bit for harder kills but better loot?

Go instal one of the massive Mods that overhaul the whole thing. Like Ocato's (?) Oblivion Overhaul.

Vodka Junkie

Mad Mike wrote:

I think I preferred the old method where you pass a tough region at low level and dream of the day you will be strong enough to take it one. If I remember Morrowind correctly the random spawns in the countryside were linked to your character level but quest and Dungeon characters had fixed levels. That seems like a better system to me.

I hear ya but i found earlier in the game that dungeon baddies were always slightly better than me. A good example was the zombie in the first dungeon across from the sewers exit which I could only beat after several reloads and chasing him down with an axe and turn undead, only for it to wear off and we would reverse roles, very Scooby Doo :rolleyes: . It was later (post lvl 20ish) that I could confidently enter a dungeon and claim victory. so tizn't too bad. anyway who wants to get too strong and slaughter everything?

Vegeta

Vodka Junkie wrote:

anyway who wants to get too strong and slaughter everything?

Me.....(que very evil laugh) ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Vodka Junkie

Vegeta wrote:

Me.....(que very evil laugh) ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Hell the PC room shivered when I read that. (maybe I should stop reading these out loud...)

Vegeta

Vodka Junkie wrote:

Hell the PC room shivered when I read that. (maybe I should stop reading these out loud...)

well my Hmod powers do transcend both space and time

Vodka Junkie

Vegeta wrote:

well my Hmod powers do transcend both space and time

Reality too at times it seems. If you ask me one more time to do your laundry because your my moderator I'll gut you in MY sleep just like I did those clowns that never laughed.

Sarn

I have to say I like getting the X5 attribute bonuses, helps me kill those mobs a bit easier be it with magic or weapon.

Set my character up in reverse, with the skills I use all the time as minor skills and vice versa (Blade, light armour and restoration as major though). When I want to level up I just start using my major skills, gives a nice rounded character IMO, but that's the way I like to play. This is because I miss the "I AM GOD" feeling that you eventually earned in Morrowind so I like to keep that little bit ahead of the mobs (I also miss being able to fly).

Mad Mike

Well I've been playing the game since I first asked this question. Im level 19 now - Ive done a bit of adventuring and a bit of main quest (I have just the part where you read the 4 books). I find that my skills are more or less keeping up with the monsters I have to face. My fights are still challenging but I can generally win through in the end. I hav eto be carefull to pull creatures one at a time and combat invoves me running around a lot to avoid getting whacked. Its quite fun actually - I prefer this to becoming an uber killer. In Morrowind my character was so imbalanced at the end of the game that there was no challenge left.

I do think the level up system is borked though. I'm fairly lucky that my Breton Nightblade character has a mix of combat and magic main skills. I generally avoid playing the game mechanics and just take the bonuses I get. However I have no intellect main skill (you need intellect for mana ) so every few levels I deliberately force train an intellect minor skill to pump up my mana pool.

Vegeta

Yeah playing as a magic only character is one tough route to go. It is still definitely easier to play as a huge lump of a warrior