ruling please?

ditpoker

self deal tournement, blinds 100/200. button (fairly tight player) makes it 600, sb calls, i call from BB with k9. flop comes 96x, sb checks, i bet 800 into the 1800 pot, button pushes all in for about 4000, i have him covered slightly, sb instantly folds, at this stage i figure him for an over pair and am reasonably happy to fold here and wait til another situation, but the dealer assumes i'm calling and flips over 66 and proceeds to deal the turn and river very quickly, turn is k river is 9 giving me a higher full house... it is only at this stage that i even have the opportunity to show my hand... i appreciate this would only happen in a self deal tournement but i was wondering what should happen in this situation. given that it was only a €5 game i said that i had been planning on mucking my hand after the flop and was happy for this to stand and for him to take down the 1800 plus my 800 as this is what was effectively what was meant to happen. he accepted his error and decided it was a bum deal, i got my money back, sb got his back, and button got his back... this was probably correct given that it was a friendly small stakes game, but what would the ruling be, say in a pub tournement?

RoundTower

ditpoker wrote:

self deal tournement, blinds 100/200. button (fairly tight player) makes it 600, sb calls, i call from BB with k9. flop comes 96x, sb checks, i bet 800 into the 1800 pot, button pushes all in for about 4000, i have him covered slightly, sb instantly folds, at this stage i figure him for an over pair and am reasonably happy to fold here and wait til another situation, but the dealer assumes i'm calling and flips over 66 and proceeds to deal the turn and river very quickly, turn is k river is 9 giving me a higher full house... it is only at this stage that i even have the opportunity to show my hand... i appreciate this would only happen in a self deal tournement but i was wondering what should happen in this situation. given that it was only a €5 game i said that i had been planning on mucking my hand after the flop and was happy for this to stand and for him to take down the 1800 plus my 800 as this is what was effectively what was meant to happen. he accepted his error and decided it was a bum deal, i got my money back, sb got his back, and button got his back... this was probably correct given that it was a friendly small stakes game, but what would the ruling be, say in a pub tournement?

What you suggested is correct, but you could have said you wanted to call. In that case the turn, last burn card and river should be shuffled back into the deck. Then deal a new turn, burn a card and deal the river.

Nothing to do with whether it's a self deal tournament or a €5 tournament or you were planning on folding anyway or whether there was a king or a nine or a six on the board or what cards would have come out. When you are making a ruling you should try to pretend you didn't know all this extraneous information unless it is really necessary.

opr

RoundTower wrote:

What you suggested is correct, but you could have said you wanted to call. In that case the turn, last burn card and river should be shuffled back into the deck. Then deal a new turn, burn a card and deal the river.

Nothing to do with whether it's a self deal tournament or a €5 tournament or you were planning on folding anyway or whether there was a king or a nine or a six on the board or what cards would have come out. When you are making a ruling you should try to pretend you didn't know all this extraneous information unless it is really necessary.

In this situation the dealer flipped over his cards before dealing the turn and the river.

In a tornament situation are your cards not instandly dead once you do this as no call was made?

RoundTower

opr wrote:

In this situation the dealer flipped over his cards before dealing the turn and the river.

In a tornament situation are your cards not instandly dead once you do this as no call was made?

no.

opr

RoundTower wrote:

no.

Short and sweet

So next time i don't want to gamble with someone on a draw i'll let them see strenght by turn over my set ........ that makes sense !!!

fuzzbox

opr wrote:

Short and sweet

So next time i don't want to gamble with someone on a draw i'll let them see strenght by turn over my set ........ that makes sense !!!

Yeah - real clever ... Please dont call me when you are a 3:1 Underdog ... "see, I've got a set".

Way to play einstein

opr

fuzzbox wrote:

Yeah - real clever ... Please dont call me when you are a 3:1 Underdog ... "see, I've got a set".

Way to play einstein

It was meant as a stupid example and to exagerate my point ........ wow what was that flying over your head

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Norwich Fan Rob

u wanna be careful of the turning over cards thing, on sunday in drogheda a guy at my table got involved in a bigish pot, the river was a 9 pairing the board and a guy bet out.........the other guy looked like he was calling, but havent called yet, and the better flashed him a 9 for trips.........then the other guy folded.
I was thinking if he was awkward, he coulda called the guys hand dead, and about 10 mins later, if was announced if anyone shows anyone at the table any cards during a hand, their cards are dead.

opr

RoundTower wrote:

no.

BTW the only reason i am asking RoundTower is i thought that in a cash game if let say someone has put you all in and you are deciding whether to call or fold you can flip your cards over before making the call but that you are not allowed to do this in tornament play.

Opr

RoundTower

you are not meant to do this. However even if you do the penalty is rarely that your hand is dead. Often it is a warning or a timeout depending on the house rules.

If you do it accidentally, or not knowing there is still action to take place, as in the OP, your hand should definitely not be killed.