HD image

cormie

Hi,
Is there a way you can just back up your whole hard drive as a whole, my HD is 100GB, if anything happened, is there any way I could have a back up which I could just copy back to the HD, or the new HD if that's the case, and have everything exactly the same as it is now? And if so.. is there a way to do it where you can update the settings/files easily without having to back the whole thing up again?

Any feedback appreciated:)

niallb

Try Ghost for Linux.
It zeroes out unused space to make the compressed backups much smaller.
It's menu driven, so linux experience is not a requirement.

Now you just need somewhere to put it!
NiallB

cormie

Hi, thanks for the suggestion. Do you not need Linux as your OS to use it though?

Lump

Norton Ghost is the daddy for this IMHO, pulled my out of the shít a couple of times.

John

cormie

I take it it's not free:( ? It says on that Linux Ghost thingy that it's like Norton. It also says about backing up to an FTP. Is that uploading it to a server?

KdjaCL

There is a free version of Norton Ghost, think its 8. But you need somewhere to put it.


kdjac

Tar.Aldarion

How big would the image be? And you mean, put it in an external hdd?

cormie

Well say if I had 100GB of free space on an external hard drive for example, would that be ok and would the free version of Norton ghost do?

Also, would it be able to update instead of having to do a fresh one every time and transfer a whole 100GB over?

Would it make everything the exact same if I ever have to use the backup file? For example, I don't use the XP theme on XP, I use the other, and have custom icons and settings throughout. Would all these remain the same and also, would I still need to install XP if I got a new HD for the laptop after the other was damaged or is there a way to just copy the backup over? Is it just a case of a normal HD to HD conversion using another PC since my laptop wont be working until I put in the HD which I just filled with info from the backup?

Hagar

Norton can make a bootable floppy for you then you just disk to disk copy.

/edit Be real careful. Disk to disk copies know no mercy if you copy from the wrong disk to the wrong disk.

niallb

cormie wrote:

Hi, thanks for the suggestion. Do you not need Linux as your OS to use it though?

No. It's agnostic.
You boot into a linux menu system, but it backs up
whatever you happen to have on your disk.

It's a bootable CD image which gives you a menu
where you pick what drive or partition you want to backup.
Filesystem doesn't matter for the basic backup/restore.

It's free.

NiallB

cormie

My laptop doesn't have a floppy drive:eek:

How would I get around that?

cormie

niallb wrote:

No. It's agnostic.
You boot into a linux menu system, but it backs up
whatever you happen to have on your disk.

It's a bootable CD image which gives you a menu
where you pick what drive or partition you want to backup.
Filesystem doesn't matter for the basic backup/restore.

It's free.

NiallB

Thanks for the feedback, by bootable CD image, do you mean I download it, burn it to a CD and when I want to back up, I insert the CD, restart and then do it from there? Where will the backup file go if this is the way and I want to put it on an external HD? Will the EXT HD be recognised while in boot up mode?

KdjaCL

Cant find it on the website but it should install a USB driver at start up and be able to copy. Looks a handy program tbh.


kdjac

Lump

Norton Ghost will create Bootable DVD's when it will un compress all your files etc back to the Hard drive.

John

Tar.Aldarion

How much HDD space will fit on a DVD?

cormie

would it be just the size of a dvd? 4.7GB?

Lump, do you mean I'd need 25 DVDs to back up my HD since it's 100GB then or do you mean to backup the HD and then a bootable dvd can be made the same way a bootable floppy can?

Tar.Aldarion

cormie wrote:

would it be just the size of a dvd? 4.7GB?

Lump, do you mean I'd need 25 DVDs to back up my HD since it's 100GB then or do you mean to backup the HD and then a bootable dvd can be made the same way a bootable floppy can?

Isn't an image smaller?

cormie

I don't know I thought an image was just a file that put the same info onto something else? I doubt a 100gb HD image would fit on 1 dvd though:o

Tar.Aldarion

cormie wrote:

I don't know I thought an image was just a file that put the same info onto something else? I doubt a 100gb HD image would fit on 1 dvd though:o

I asked around.

MP3s, pictures and videos are already as compressed as they get. Everything else, games, text etc can be gotten down to half size.

cormie

ok:) Well I think I'd probably need more than the 4.7 anyway.

So now, Norton Ghost 8 or the Linux one? They are both free yeah? Anyone have experience with both?

Standard Toaster

Norton Ghost, like most other backup solutions, will only image data on the hdd. It's not going to image the free space too.

So, if you have a 100Gb hdd with say 20Gb used it's only going to backup the 20Gb. Setting the compression to max will reduce the size of the image but will slow down the imaging process....and vice versa.

Ghost Explorer could extract files from NTFS images but not edit images afaik.

See here. Version 8 is the lastest.

cormie

are all them programs available on the one CD image file you have listed which is only 53mb?

Is compressing the image file risky at all? And what about if you want to update the files on it etc, will it be more hassle if it's compressed?

Edge, what do you recommend so? I don't want to pay for a program and I want to be able to backup my 100GB HD, which could nearly 100GB full some day, probably not, but anyway, to an external HD which I can update to make it reflect that current days HD settings.

Also, do you know if it will make the HD the exact same as it was before the problem, which I hope never occurs:)

Lump

I think I Ghosted 15-20 gigs and it fit on 1.5 DVD's, so it compresses it alot! You can increase the compression, but it takes a lot longer.

John

cormie

Ok, well I'd prefer to do it on a rewriteable drive so I don't think DVDr's are the best option for me.

So would everything be exactly the same on the new HD with using the backup file?

KdjaCL

cormie wrote:

So would everything be exactly the same on the new HD with using the backup file?

Your taking a picture of your hard drive and saving it. You can then load that windows back in case of anything bad happening.


kdjac

cormie

ok thanks:)

Don't suppose you have a link to the free norton one? Would norton be better than Linux do you reckon?

Amalgam

Be aware that.. Norton Ghost changed after 'Norton Ghost 2002', Symantec, the company that markets Ghost, basically bought out another company and started using their software under the Ghost name.

I wouldn't touch anything after Ghost 2002 myself, starts getting iffy. Ghost 2002 can write to DVD, CD, external HD's etc. I'd avoid anything that backs up a HD 'within' Windows, there's absolutely nothing wrong with doing the task after a re-boot, if you're that rushed..

cormie

Amalgam wrote:

there's absolutely nothing wrong with doing the task after a re-boot, if you're that rushed..

What did you mean by that exactly? After reinstalling XP do you mean or something else?


Thanks for the warning about Norton, what do you think about Linux though?

niallb

Also, do you know if it will make the HD the exact same as it was before the problem, which I hope never occurs

If that's how you choose to backup your drive - as an exact copy -
that will be the case.

Looks like what you want is to be able to clone today's system
to a backup drive. Make that drive also a 100GB one, and ideally
even if your own drive should fail utterly, you can just replace it
with the backup drive itself and be back in business.
However, I wouldn't go for that as a sole backup strategy.
For example, how about something goes badly wrong and
you don't notice for two days? You've already overwritten
your last good backup...

Ghost for linux is capable of performing that sort of backup,
and so is Norton.

NiallB

niallb

cormie wrote:

What did you mean by that exactly? After reinstalling XP do you mean or something else?

You won't have to reinstall XP using a drive clone.
It's part of the backup.

NiallB

cormie

Well I wouldn't want to buy a whole new 100GB hd for a laptop, they are probably way too expensive for a simple back up file. It's still under warranty too. And warranty repairs usually end up with a wiped HD:eek:

So you reckon the best thing to do would be to have say, 200GB free on an ext HD, have one backup file which I update every month or with every important change I make, and then another I update every week or so?

cormie

niallb wrote:

You won't have to reinstall XP using a drive clone.
It's part of the backup.

NiallB

Yeah I thought that, but not too sure what Amalgam meant by the doing what task after a reboot?

niallb

I think he just means he wouldn't trust backup software that
ran from within the windows system you were backing up.
Neither would I!

Rebooting into a backup CD like Ghost4linux or Norton
frees up any files windows would have had locked which
otherwise might not get backed up.

NiallB

Amalgam

I think he just means he wouldn't trust backup software that
ran from within the windows system you were backing up.
Neither would I!

That's it niallb, sorry, should have been clearer. I made a mistake, its Ghost 2003 that I use, after that things get iffy.. and before that, there was a lack of DVD Writer support, so.. 2003 is the sweet spot for the 'old' Ghost.

cormie

alright thanks:)

So is ghost 2003 free by any chance:D

cormie

another question on this actually; If I was to ghost my drive, is there any way that if I was asked to help somebody set up a new pc or format an old one, could I use that ghost on their system (different to my laptop) without my personal files? Would it just be a case of putting it on their HD and then deleting my personal files? I have my laptop set up with loads of good free programs like AVG/adaware/Media player classic etc and with no clutter so it would be handy to just copy the HD instead of having to install XP for them and install each program individually and then set each program to the settings I think work best for them.

Lump

You could in theory, but afaik, Norton does something that prevents the ghost been used on a different machine. At least Windows will pop up asking for a new serial number. Saying that I've never tried. Also, I think it's madness to ghost and entire system to an external Hard drive, ghosting isn't a method for backing up files, it's used to backup installs, IE, instead of having to rebuild an entire system if you format a harddrive, you ghost it.

The ghost contains compressed data about the XP Installation, and all the programmes/drivers/settings you were using before creating the ghost. It's used alot in Net cafes, where they'll re-ghost a machine once a week/month depending on how busy the place is. This means that a machine can be returned to perfect working order in one easy-ish step!

If you have 100 gigs of Movies, it's not sensible to ghost them, tbh, I don't even know if norton Ghost would work on Movies, or if it might corrupt them, since DVIX's are already really really compressed.

John

cormie

well I have XP tweaked to exactly how I want it so formatting is a pain in the arse for me. I'd have no problem sacrificing 100GB of storage to make a backup incase anything did go wrong. If compressing is risky, I'd have no problem sparing the full 100gb either:)

Would be dead handy if I could use the same file to put the same settings on other PCs too though, my dads laptop is a mess for example, instead of spending ages with a format from scratch it would be a lot easier if I could just copy the windows settings over and include the likes of AVG/adaware etc.

niallb

You should have a seperate ghost for different machines.
Far too much hassle otherwise. It may not even boot.

Ghosting a fresh install on the laptop should be quite small
in comparison. If it's that much of a mess, put it right, and then
save that install as a ghost when you're happy with it.
A compressed image of a fresh install may well fit onto a DVD.

NiallB

John R

You couldn't use the image for a different PC as it would have the wrong drivers and setup files on the windows installation. Unless of course the two pcs are identical.

It is a very good way of backing up your system, really saved me endless hassle when my main HDD died last year. Just took it out and plugged in the backup one; instant system recovery.

I wouldn't bother running it that regularly, a simple CD-R of new files every so often would do and just image the HDD after any major upgrades.

cormie

the main thing I'd want to keep updated is emails to Mozilla. Everything else isn't a problem and easy to back up. I thought the drivers etc would cause problems for installing different machines alright.

Why are you suggesting to ghost a fresh install on the laptop? to use on the laptop or to use on a different system?