Ireland to allow GMO trials

Oldtree

GMO trials on potatoes are to be allowed by EPA on a 1 hectar site in Ireland per year. "The potatoes are not to become food or feed. There is only a very small risk to the environment."

Clearly the EPA hasn't heard of Chaos theory, all it would take is a single grain of pollen to escape, reaching another related plant and that would be all she wrote. Does our countryside really need a GM invader. Look at the problems that Gunnera, Japanese Knotweed and Rododendron ponticum are causing, and they are only Visitors.

Foolish too, to lose our claim to GMO free, for something that will end up as a product of a multi-national, who will ensure the plants sterility thus ensuring custom. Feed the world, I think not!
:eek:

democrates

Read an article in the ecologist about a farmer who was sued by Monsanto because their gm seeds blew into his field and so he 'stole' their 'intellectual property'. Stunning outrage but that's how these corporates operate when bought politicians give their interests exclusive legislative representation. And some farmers think ramblers are a threat!

Also it's now proven that dna moves from gm food into bacteria in the human gut. The consequences are that it is not possible to be sure that mutated bacteria will all be safe, and will not excrete toxins for example. We've yet to see research into effects on viral organisms, potentially the most deadly threat. The science isn't there to understand the full implications of gm, it's a total gamble with the health of the biosphere by reckless experimenters driven by astounding corporate greed.

I think the rossport 5 are the template, direct action is necessary on this because our elected representatives equate being investor friendly pimps with protecting the best interests of our nation.

Akrasia

of course, the politicians will claim that the risks are small. But why on earth should we have to take any risks at all? We're not the ones who are going to benefit, We already have potatoes, there is no shortage of Spuds in Ireland.

GM foods are pandoras box. Once they escape, there is no controlling them.

edanto

Monsanto act ruthlessly - I found a page giving a bit more details about the Canadian farmer that was sued by them. It's great that he stood up and eventually came out on top in the Supreme Court.
http://www.1984comic.com/pageArticle.php?action=read&id=112

Still, not knowing anything about these potatoes, or this company, I went to the EPA site for details. They told me that these plants have been modified to be more resistant to blight - a disease causing losses of about e10m (doesn't sound like a huge proportion of the potato market) per year. Blight is the reason our potatoes get regular and heavy applications of fungicide.

Democrates - when you say that DNA moves from GM food into bacteria in the gut; firstly are you talking about the Gilbert study and then how is the DNA in this GM crop any different from the DNA that's in regular food?

The reason for that question is because the BASF potatoes have 2 genes put into them, one taken from edible Mexican potatoes and the other taken from edible cress. They have some regulatory sequences put in as well, which come from a bacterium and have already been shown to be safe to eat. These details are deep on the EPA site and GMfreeIreland.

The point is that it might be the case that these potatoes are completely safe to grow and eat and only have the effect of not needing to be sprayed with as much anti-blight chemical as regular spuds. Personally, I'd rather eat something with a bit of DNA from another edible plant instead of something that has been sprayed with a heap of fungicide.

democrates

edanto wrote:

Democrates - when you say that DNA moves from GM food into bacteria in the gut; firstly are you talking about the Gilbert study and then how is the DNA in this GM crop any different from the DNA that's in regular food?

The reason for that question is because the BASF potatoes have 2 genes put into them, one taken from edible Mexican potatoes and the other taken from edible cress. They have some regulatory sequences put in as well, which come from a bacterium and have already been shown to be safe to eat. These details are deep on the EPA site and GMfreeIreland.

The point is that it might be the case that these potatoes are completely safe to grow and eat and only have the effect of not needing to be sprayed with as much anti-blight chemical as regular spuds. Personally, I'd rather eat something with a bit of DNA from another edible plant instead of something that has been sprayed with a heap of fungicide.

If I were sure it was safe and there was no risk of lawsuit for farmers I'd also prefer it to a toxin-laced spud if that were my only choice. Industrial agriculture is a problem, I prefer to pay more for organic which I think is the best solution, but if this gm pollutes I won't have that choice, all I consume will have been altered from it's natural state one way or another. I react to this as I would to someone trying to put rat poison in my dinner.

As for the dna transfer, yes, it is the Gilbert study, and yes, it happens with existing foods, but these have been tested over millennia, whereas artificial combinations are new, we can't possibly have equivalent confidence, and that's why insurance companies won't touch gm with a barge-pole, the risk is incalculable because the scientific certainty isn't there. And regulatory-mandated bacterium sequences? It's worse than i thought. That'll get the roswell conspiracy theorists jumping.

But seriously, these new combinations of dna which didn't occur naturally present a new risk. Though individually they may test safe so far, that doesn't mean they always will with more thorough testing, or that in combination they may have other unforseen effects. Until we have the comprehension and technology to model precisely the reactions of human organisms in totality including the brain what we have is risk. And have you ever gone on the beer with a Chinaman? We don't have identical physiologies, adding to the complexity.

They said the transfer to human gut bacteria was impossible, turned out they were wrong. World experts in biotech with vast resources and the best research at their disposal, wrong. Of course they were warned but they attack and set about undermining anyone who speaks out. So now "it's oh, well, um, ahh, has anyone died yet? No? Safe!". Instead of doing honest science to prove safety, they're playing innocent until proven guilty.

Research needs a lot more transparency and oversight, as well as better science. About 1 in 20 animal tests replicate the key effects a substance has on humans. Only human trials are reliable indicators of how humans are effected.

The FDA in the USA is a joke. Political donations can get dangerous things approved as we saw with Donald Rumsfeld on behalf of his friends appointing the 'right' people until aspartame -rejected for ten years and once on a shortlist of military bio-weapons - finally got approval using a *selection* of available research. So much for the scientific method.

We've seen the results of these shenanigans from polio 'vaccines' to aspartame, from thalidomide to asbestos, from mercury amalgam fillings to tobacco. The list of approved hazards is long.

Ultimately what they've proven most effectively is that their word cannot be trusted.

The biotech industry are not as clever as they claim to be, but don't care because the industry is driven by greedy investors a la American Psycho, and reckless experimenters with ego and/or morality failings. The good people are there, thankfully, and good science is being done, but these get sidelined if they don't serve elite private interests.

I don't trust these rogue elements in the biotech industry or gm technology, and will support any efforts to protect against their experiments entering our food chain.

Untense

I'm not really worried about the health effects of GM foods. We have been tinkering with our crops for thousands of years, albeit much more slowly.
It is a giant frog leap with some concerns, but it's a leap in the same pond.

What I'm concerned about is the idea of a corporation owning the rights to a crop.
The fact that some corporations are already producing crops that do not spawn new seeds, which means the farmer has to purchase seeds from the corporation to grow from one season to the next.

That is when GM and the idea of cross-pollination scares the feck out of me.

Oldtree

It is the start of a slippery slope, that will lead to the Jellyfish gene in the tomatoes that allows the tomatoes to glow in the dark when ripe. As a vegetarian i don't want animal genes in my food.

Do not be fooled by anything a multinational tells you, it is a one sided story. I quote "How do we make the most out of peoples fear of dieing, in the third world, in order to make them buy more product" is an underlying ethos about the accumulation of pennys, in any way possible.

democrates

Precisely oldtree (there's a bristlecone pine in the americas that is over 2000 years old -gbr), it's all about concentrating wealth. that's all they do, whatever market or corrupted legislative mechanism, it's all about funneling money from toiling working stock to the investor elite.

We're rapidly heading toward a situation where all you breathe, drink, or eat has been contaminated and/or mutated. Every one of them claiming their activity is harmless, yet cancers and other ailments multiply relentlessly.

There's no conspiracy, it's just pure greed and disrespect for any other life.

Oldtree

How somebody can be a director of one of those companies making those sorts of decisions, and go home to a family at the end of the day is beyond me.
I think about the impact I have on a day to day basis and do what I can, eg, I use a bio-degradable chain lubrication oil in my chainsaws. Its 98% bio-degradable in 28 days with 2% being inert, as well as no breathing problems for myself from the spray. Most use a mineral oil, 3 in 1 spread around the gardens I work in, no way.
But the sad thing is that you can only preach to the converted. The main place to have an impact is in the education of our children, Do what you can.

One old bristlecone pines in the white mountains of California was measured at 4,600 years old, wow weeee would i like to see that.