PLO Bottom/Mid Set

Samba

I've lost count how many times i've ran into top set over the past two weeks.

What should I do with these hands, pot, fold to re-pot?

Im lost, Help........!


This is not a moan, bad beat thread, i would like to know how other PLO players treat their range of sets

Bandana boy

Not sure what level your playing but Top set in PLo is usually very obvious about the fact he has top set
Bottom and middle set is horrible and i would only play in LP where i have a very good idea of what my opponents re-raise hands could be

On a draw heavy board to re-raise action i lay down 95%+ of the time

RoundTower

What games are you playing in (level and site or location irl)? Some games are aggro enough that you can always profitably go broke with middle set or (rarely online) bottom set. Some people won't raise without the nuts and you can throw away your middle set easily.

The advice about laying down on a draw heavy board but not on a dry one is weak tight and stupid. If you get raised by a tag player on a drawish board he has either a big hand or a big draw so you may have to play. If you get raised by the same guy on a Q72 rainbow board then he probably has a set.

Samba

I mainly play low limit 50/1 - 2-4 on Tribeca, live play bottom set just gets taken out by flushes and striaghts, i play little Omaha in the fitz.


That's a fine example Roundtower, i just went broke on a very similar board to QQ, holding 77.

Lafortezza

If it's a dry board and Villain puts in the 3rd or 4th raise I will occasionally fold middle set. Not too often though.

This doesn't work against most Scandie players unfortunately, they always have top set

cardshark202

I was playing some 1-2 PLO on full tilt the other day and I went broke with AKKQds on an AK2r board agains AA34r. I generally find if I'm holding one of the blockers to top set I can't seem to fold middle set. Plus the guy I went broke to was an idiot, thus making folding mid set even harder. In general though, I would fold KKQT on that board when its 3 or 4 betted against most villians.

RoundTower

lafortezza wrote:

If it's a dry board and Villain puts in the 3rd or 4th raise I will occasionally fold middle set. Not too often though.

This doesn't work against most Scandie players unfortunately, they always have top set

3rd or fourth raise is a lot of money going in, generally online a flop 3 bet is going to be more or less all in. Let's say you have T887 in late position, 5 way limped pot. flop is K82 one flush draw, you don't have it, sb leads and it is folded to you and you decide to raise. He reraises. Against many players you can fold here. If the flop is rainbow you can fold against more or less anyone.

Or lets say MP raises pf and is at least somewhat aggro. You call in lp with JJTA. 3 way pot. Flop is QJ4 with a flush draw you don't have. MP bets and you raise and he pushes, now you call.

Bandana boy

RoundTower wrote:

What games are you playing in (level and site or location irl)? Some games are aggro enough that you can always profitably go broke with middle set or (rarely online) bottom set. Some people won't raise without the nuts and you can throw away your middle set easily.

The advice about laying down on a draw heavy board but not on a dry one is weak tight and stupid. If you get raised by a tag player on a drawish board he has either a big hand or a big draw so you may have to play. If you get raised by the same guy on a Q72 rainbow board then he probably has a set.

At no point did i suggest not laying down on dry board
All i was saying is that bottom/mid set on Draw heavy board to lots of action is usually a good lay down
"
If you get raised by a tag player on a drawish board he has either a big hand or a big draw so you may have to play "
This seem reckless to me and I am sure -ev
At9 with set of 9s a raise and re-raise into me i fold as when i am ahead i am not far ahead and when behind i am very far behind



Set of 7s on Q72 if i have postion i might ake a play here but generally any action is QQQ

Generally speaking bottom or mid set especially in full ring is rubbish

RoundTower

Bandana boy wrote:

At no point did i suggest not laying down on dry board
All i was saying is that bottom/mid set on Draw heavy board to lots of action is usually a good lay down
"
If you get raised by a tag player on a drawish board he has either a big hand or a big draw so you may have to play "
This seem reckless to me and I am sure -ev
At9 with set of 9s a raise and re-raise into me i fold as when i am ahead i am not far ahead and when behind i am very far behind



Set of 7s on Q72 if i have postion i might ake a play here but generally any action is QQQ

Generally speaking bottom or mid set especially in full ring is rubbish

What games are you playing in? I'm not trying to be insulting but if you are in a game with aggressive players who are not all stupid you will be run over.

Bandana boy

I play /have played everything from .5/1 to 10-20 on PPP,PP,PS and FT
I dont play too much PLO these days as I am using NL H-E to build back up a shattered BR but over all it is my most profitable game

And far from getting run over what I am suggesting is when you do not have the best hand in PLO you lay down if somebody is insisting they do esp in full ring
And top set usually insists

yes there are players who can be very aggresive and they usually get very aggresive into the nuts before to long
And with these guys you can adjust your game accordingly
I take no offfense at your comments but
I find it hard to believe that you disagree with laying down a crap hand like bottom set to action in PLO

but a long time a go in galaxy far far away i learned this lesson and stopped getting stacked with bottom set against top set in fact now it is usually the other way round

RoundTower

Do you agree with my line in the two hands I posted above?

Also if you played on PPP 5-10, what is your username? PM me if you don't want to mention it here.

edit: found out, haven't played with you.

cardshark202

RoundTower wrote:

Do you agree with my line in the two hands I posted above?

Also if you played on PPP 5-10, what is your username? PM me if you don't want to mention it here.

He doesn't need to post it up here. Same as boards username.

Bandana boy

RoundTower wrote:

flop is K82 one flush draw, you don't have it, sb leads and it is folded to you and you decide to raise. He reraises. Against many players you can fold here. If the flop is rainbow you can fold against more or less anyone..

Agreed 5 way pot unless you know something on player stone cold fold

RoundTower wrote:

Or lets say MP raises pf and is at least somewhat aggro. You call in lp with JJTA. 3 way pot. Flop is QJ4 with a flush draw you don't have. MP bets and you raise and he pushes, now you call.

This is slightly different playing an "aggro " player in position in a raised 3 way.
OK assume 100 BB each and we have say 3BB raise pre flop
pot is say 13 BB
he leads for 13 and you raise to 52 BBs and he pushes for his last 45 then my friend you are pretty deep into this pot already
45 to win 213
I believe you can be ahead against his range but also with gutshot (and possible backdoor flush) your nearly getting odds against naked qqq so I agree call
Same hand and player 3 reraises you different proposition

Goodluck2me

cardshark202 wrote:

I was playing some 1-2 PLO on full tilt the other day and I went broke with AKKQds on an AK2r board agains AA34r. I generally find if I'm holding one of the blockers to top set I can't seem to fold middle set. Plus the guy I went broke to was an idiot, thus making folding mid set even harder. In general though, I would fold KKQT on that board when its 3 or 4 betted against most villians.

thats just incredibly unlucky for him to have the aces there the odds are quite small and your holding a monster..i wouldn't fold here at all.

fuzzbox

goodluck2me wrote:

thats just incredibly unlucky for him to have the aces there the odds are quite small and your holding a monster..i wouldn't fold here at all.

What else could he have?
AK is just as unlikely.

fuzzbox

In general middle and bottom set are really tough in PLO ... especially OOP (isnt everything).

I am much more willing to take serious heat, if I have some draw to go along with it, or if I have good reason to believe that somebody is not hugely likely to have a higher set.

Its pretty situation dependent though.

Bandana boy

If you take a step back Fuzz there not that tough
Every time you run into top set and look back at the hand you will find he was shouting at you that he had top set.
Yeah in raised pots might not be so simple but in general inlimped pots hitting q72 with 77 you know your beat pretty quick

fuzzbox

Bandana boy wrote:

If you take a step back Fuzz there not that tough
Every time you run into top set and look back at the hand you will find he was shouting at you that he had top set.
Yeah in raised pots might not be so simple but in general inlimped pots hitting q72 with 77 you know your beat pretty quick

There are many donkeys who think that Q7 or 22 is the nuts on that board. Its not as trivially simple as you would imagine.

What about a Th9d5h board, and you hold AsKc9s9c ... facing some heat?
Not every board is dry, and even when it is dry its not always clear what action you should take.

Bandana boy

fuzzbox wrote:

There are many donkeys who think that Q7 or 22 is the nuts on that board. Its not as trivially simple as you would imagine.

What about a Th9d5h board, and you hold AsKc9s9c ... facing some heat?
Not every board is dry, and even when it is dry its not always clear what action you should take.

So on that board your getting big heat
What is the range of hands your opponent can have
TTT in which case your a country mile behind or wrap and flush draw in which your a gnats arse ahead
Surely if not sure you should fold here as in long run you lose

RoundTower

Bandana boy wrote:

So on that board your getting big heat
What is the range of hands your opponent can have
TTT in which case your a country mile behind or wrap and flush draw in which your a gnats arse ahead
Surely if not sure you should fold here as in long run you lose

Only if villain is a rock. Maybe he overplays his hands and has just the nut flush draw or nut flush draw plus an overpair or a ten or a gutshot. Even if he is good and doesn't normally overplay his hands, he should push these draws very hard against you, since you are regularly laying down big hands.