Outer Ring motorway

darkman2

Now that detailed evaluations, designs and route options are being investigated it will only be a matter of time before the second ring motorway for Dublin will be under construction. It is likely it will run in a line roughly from north of Balbriggan (where it will join the M1), south of Slane (where it will meet the N2 slane bypass), Past north of Dunshaughlin (where it will meet the new M3) before turning south passing between Kilcock and Kinnegad (where it will cross the M4) and down to just before the M9 slip on the M7. It will then terminate at the N81.

There are alot of logistical questions regarding this massive route (it will almost certainly have the largest radius of any ring road in Europe and will be one of the longest). It will have to be 3 lanes at least IMO. It will certainly be tolled as it is going to be monumentally expensive.

It will require a whole new approach to the designs of the junctions which will have to be totally freeflow at the 5 motorway standard roads it will cross.

What about archeology? The critical infrastructure bill would have to be used to full effect to make sure the project is put in front of Bord Pleanala, given the go ahead with no chance of appeal. It would probrably be built in one go, like the M3 as a PPP. I think this motorway is vital and makes much more strategic sense then the present M50. It is also going to open up whole new route options through Leinster. It will attact development, a downside I suppose but should ensure that at the very least the East has a comprehensive motorway network. Along with the Eastern Bypass it will be the final piece of the Jigsaw. - then of course the really important question - what will it be called??:D

Do you support this planned motorway?:)

nordydan

Why dont the upgrade the N51 and entire N52 from Dundalk & Drogheda to Mullingar/Nenagh routes to 2+1 with full priority bypasses as per the N21? You could get from Mullingar to Dundalk in 50 mins. Also extend the N12 to Athlone and upgrade it as per the N24 to make a high quality link from the west and free up a few road numbers? I know they are remodelling the N52 from Mullingar to the new N6 but it still has at grade roundabouts. these would be acceptable only where it crosses national primary routes. The N12 extenstion would greatly help the border regions links with the north and the west.

darkman2

nordydan wrote:

Why dont the upgrade the N51 and entire N52 from Dundalk & Drogheda to Mullingar/Nenagh routes to 2+1 with full priority bypasses as per the N21? You could get from Mullingar to Dundalk in 50 mins. Also extend the N12 to Athlone and upgrade it as per the N24 to make a high quality link from the west and free up a few road numbers? I know they are remodelling the N52 from Mullingar to the new N6 but it still has at grade roundabouts. these would be acceptable only where it crosses national primary routes. The N12 extenstion would greatly help the border regions links with the north and the west.

Given the huge population growth in these areas I reckon a motorway is best though they could also upgrade the routes youve mentioned. The N52 is a joke. Its meant as a bypass for Dublin:)

nordydan

Sorry mate, I must have been thinking of a pale bypass. You're right about the N52, its more like a rollercaster than a road in places. They are resurfacing in places but bits need to be totally realinged. and proper bypasses needed, not that charade down near nenagh.

In your route description did you mean slane or ashbourne?, if it goes from balbriggan to slane then to dunshaughlin that would be a "mad shape altogether!"

Lennoxschips

No, I don't support the second ring road. It's need is a result of lack of planning and foresight. The M50 should have done the trick, but it turned into a local road because Dublin has insufficient intra-city public transport. Does Dublin really need an outer bypass motorway? How great is the traffic going from Belfast through to Munster? No, this motorway is just another road to facilitate more urban srawl.

It's money that's better spent on other things. But motorways seem to win votes.

John R

I agree, more roads mean more cars. This is a lesson that has been learned the hard way in the rest of the developed world, well except America whose car-centric myopic attitude just carries on concreting over their cities regardless.

Instead of following their path 30 years later we have the opportunity to see the results and change our actions accordingly.

Unfortunately all the ignorant selfish idiots sitting alone in their cars in traffic jams every day are braying for more roads so the craven politicians give them what they want in the hope of getting another 5 years.

What is the point of a second ring road anyway? Just so people who chose to live in one remote satellite town can drive 50 miles to the out of town strip mall on the outskirts of another satellite town?

Bluetonic

darkman2 wrote:

It is likely it will run in a line roughly from north of Balbriggan (where it will join the M1), south of Slane (where it will meet the N2 slane bypass), Past north of Dunshaughlin (where it will meet the new M3) before turning south passing between Kilcock and Kinnegad (where it will cross the M4) and down to just before the M9 slip on the M7. It will then terminate at the N81.

It'll most likely be on the M1 on the Drogheda side of the Nanny River to ensure the toll bridge must be passed to enter the M1 southbound.

Pfungstadter

I can see it being called the M52, as in the second M50,

Maybe one or two sections will be built, but I can see myself waiting for 30 years for the thing to be built, by that time our population will be around 6 or 7 or even ten million.

I they build it they could build one side, so it'll just be a normal N road that can be easily upgraded to motorway.

I couldn't be a pale bypass as some one mentioned, the Pale was not just Dublin, it was most of Leinster, a point that most people seem to forget.

It could be a pale inner relief route :rolleyes:

Bards

Seems to me that the atlantic route corridor will be a ring around dublin.

Donegal to Killarney (Via Galway & Limerick) accross to Wexforcd (Via Cork & Waterford) and then up to Belfast (Via Dublin) all either Motorway or 2+1

Because if they build an M52 then within 10-20 years the Atlantic route corridor will be an M54 (Outer Outer Outer ring road)

road_high

The N52 and N80 are rubbish- people that want to travel from the south Midlands and south East that want to go to Louth, Meath or the North would much rather to avoid Dublin altogether and the madness of the M50 but arew forced to go that way cos the N80 and N52 are so bad- the N52 between Kells and Mullingar is pure comedy the state its in!!

A route that would be ideal for the outer ring would be to tie in with current N7/9 at Newbrodge and go Northwards to meet the M4,N3 and meet the M1 road north of Drogheda.

But the alternative to keep the environmentalists happy may be just to completely upgrade the N52, and bypass all the crappy towns it still passes through..

murphaph

darkman2 wrote:

Now that detailed evaluations, designs and route options are being investigated it will only be a matter of time before the second ring motorway for Dublin will be under construction.

Erm, I don't actually think any detailed design work is under way actually. It wasn't included in T21 and isn't listed as a major scheme in planning on the NRA's website. It's been bandied about in the public for a while but as far as I can see it's still very much at the conceptual stage.

Personally I think it would be a monumental waste of money. The N52 should be upgraded properly to WS2 or 2+1 with maybe some bits of D2 but that should really be all it takes. At the end of the day, Dublin is the economic heart of Ireland and the numbers of people travelling from Cork-Belfast etc. are limited.

When such roads as the N4 to a gateway town like Sligo aren't even planned to be D2 all the way then I can't see how this outer orbital fits into things. I'd much rather see the BILLION quid spent on hundreds of smaller realignments of truly treacherous national primary, secondary and regional roads that would benefit people in a much wider context than a tolled outer orbital motorway. Small realignments (like the super recent N30 scheme) and bypasses all add together to make a proper national network which is much faster and safer to use than a load of essentially 'bog roads' linked by impressive motorways.

The N80 was mentioned as being dire. I actually found it has some really good stretches (far superior to much of the primary roads) with some twisty bits that could be realigned at modest cost. The N52 is similar and they are working on that right now.

road_high

murphaph wrote:

Erm, I don't actually think any detailed design work is under way actually. It wasn't included in T21 and isn't listed as a major scheme in planning on the NRA's website. It's been bandied about in the public for a while but as far as I can see it's still very much at the conceptual stage.

Personally I think it would be a monumental waste of money. The N52 should be upgraded properly to WS2 or 2+1 with maybe some bits of D2 but that should really be all it takes. At the end of the day, Dublin is the economic heart of Ireland and the numbers of people travelling from Cork-Belfast etc. are limited.

When such roads as the N4 to a gateway town like Sligo aren't even planned to be D2 all the way then I can't see how this outer orbital fits into things. I'd much rather see the BILLION quid spent on hundreds of smaller realignments of truly treacherous national primary, secondary and regional roads that would benefit people in a much wider context than a tolled outer orbital motorway. Small realignments (like the super recent N30 scheme) and bypasses all add together to make a proper national network which is much faster and safer to use than a load of essentially 'bog roads' linked by impressive motorways.

The N80 was mentioned as being dire. I actually found it has some really good stretches (far superior to much of the primary roads) with some twisty bits that could be realigned at modest cost. The N52 is similar and they are working on that right now.

The N80 has some straight stretches, such as near Tullamore- the main problem with it is goes throgh every town- not one has been bypassed yet properly-i'm refering to Carlow, Portlaoise, Mountmellick,Tullamore...Very hard to make progess on any road when you're constantly slowing up and stopping.

The N52 same problem- again Tullamore, Mullingar, kells, Birr etc..
I agree if that if these roads were upgraded to a high standard with bypasses of all the above then we would have a clear alternative to an outer ring of Dublin and the associated urban sprawl into Leinster.

murphaph

mfitzy wrote:

The N80 has some straight stretches, such as near Tullamore- the main problem with it is goes throgh every town- not one has been bypassed yet properly-i'm refering to Carlow, Portlaoise, Mountmellick,Tullamore...Very hard to make progess on any road when you're constantly slowing up and stopping.

The N52 same problem- again Tullamore, Mullingar, kells, Birr etc..
I agree if that if these roads were upgraded to a high standard with bypasses of all the above then we would have a clear alternative to an outer ring of Dublin and the associated urban sprawl into Leinster.

The N52 has numerous bypasses in progress/planned. Most of the road from the N4 to the N6 is to be realigned including bypassing Mullingar and a total realignment at the N6 meaning no trapse through Kilbeggan. From memory the road from there to Tullamore is good and wide. Tullamore needs bypassing of course and this is actually listed on the NRA site as being 'in planning'. The N52 Kells bypass is planned and I believe will take place alongside the M3 works IIRC.

The N80 is a different matter. Don't think anything major is planned for it except a Mountmellick relief road which is a shame but I could be wrong.

nordydan

murphaph wrote:

The N52 has numerous bypasses in progress/planned. Most of the road from the N4 to the N6 is to be realigned including bypassing Mullingar and a total realignment at the N6 meaning no trapse through Kilbeggan. From memory the road from there to Tullamore is good and wide. Tullamore needs bypassing of course and this is actually listed on the NRA site as being 'in planning'. The N52 Kells bypass is planned and I believe will take place alongside the M3 works IIRC.

The N80 is a different matter. Don't think anything major is planned for it except a Mountmellick relief road which is a shame but I could be wrong.

What we need is gsj junctions along an entire 2+1 N52 from Dundalk to Mullingar, ie you turn right at Dundalk and only cede right of way briefly in maybe 2-3 places beteen there and Nenagh (ie, Ardee, Kells (not delvin), mullingar, N6 and N7. This should be made a priority route and totally realigned in more places than just south of mullingar if necessary. There would be a fair amont of traffic using this route from the North and north Leinster through to Munster and the midlands. As they say in Wyanes world, if you build them they will come!!

murphaph

nordydan wrote:

What we need is gsj junctions along an entire 2+1 N52

GSJing a 2+1 ould result in it being almost as expensive as HQD2 but with far fewer benefits. You may as well just dual the entire road if yer gonna GSJ it. Again, this sort of stuff is very expensive and again, not even every road to the capital and heart of the economy would have D2, so I'd see it being very hard to justify. Regular 2+1 all the way I could see a justification for however.

JackieChan

Don't forget in Tullamore and Carlow you are using 'ring roads' to go through them. You don't pass through the town centres but instead get dizzy using the roundabouts. There must be at least 8 roundabouts going through Carlow!
On the other hand you have to drive through Portlaoise and Mountmellick and these can be really painful.
Mountmellick has no parking restrictions so you have cars parked on either side of the roads and traffic trying to squeeze between them.

D'Peoples Voice

darkman2 wrote:

It is likely it will run in a line roughly from north of Balbriggan (where it will join the M1), south of Slane (where it will meet the N2 slane bypass), Past north of Dunshaughlin (where it will meet the new M3) before turning south passing between Kilcock and Kinnegad (where it will cross the M4) and down to just before the M9 slip on the M7. It will then terminate at the N81.

I'd prefer the outer bypass to start by,

Upgrade existing N51 between Drogheda & Navan(via Slane)

redesignate and upgrade the R161 between Navan and Kinegad(via Trim) to the N51 instead of the current N51 from Navan to Devlin

From Kinegad to Kildare(via Edenderry and Rathangan), redesignate and upgrade the R401 to the N51

From Kildare to Crookstwon on the N9, redesignate and upgrade the R415 to the N51

From Crookstown on the N9 to Arklow(via Baltinglass), redesignate and upgrade R747 the N51

These roads needs to be improved ANYWAY, so this will serve the dual purpose of improving them and providing a bypass of Dublin.
Also note how many of these towns are receiving the decentralised departments from Dublin, and therefore will need better infrastructure.

road_high

Those ring roads in CW and Tullamore are farcical.Espec the one in Tullamore- it's quicker if you're heading towards Kilbeegan to go down the main street;fact!

What they need are proper, high quality bypasses, with no stupid roundabouts.

The Mountmellick RR sounds like a white elephant to me-what the town clearly needs is a proper bypass (something like the Youghal Co. Cork bypass perhaps), not a mickey mouse solution.

jd

D'Peoples Voice wrote:

I'd prefer the outer bypass to start by,
upgrading the N51, except where the current N51 goes from Navan to Athboy, redirect it to Navan(M3) to Trim and onto to Kinegad(M4-M6), Kildare town(M7-M8), Kilcullen(M9) and finally Wicklow town(M11).

That would be scenic..:)

nordydan

I'd say the green party would have a canary about that one!!

Although it would be handy for Glendalough mind.

MT

I'm torn on the idea. If in the long run such a road is necessary then I'd say go for it. However, in the medium term the less grandiose solutions of upgrading the N51, N52 and N80 with realignments, 2+1s and bypasses seems much the more cost effective. As Murphaph says there's no point in having a top notch motorway network connected by bog roads. The N55 bypass and improvements are good examples of eradicating the existing disparity between gleaming major roads and connecting cart tracks.

Furthermore, money for public transport in the Dublin region should also be prioritised ahead of any such future bypass. I would see such a development as an extra rather than something being built at the expense of PT and 'minor' road improvements.

I think in general there is a need for less of a focus on major new projects and more on improving and maintaining what does exist. At the moment there appears to be an obsession with sparkling new pieces of infrastructure and much less enthusiasm for more prosaic aspects like signage.

Better to have a reasonable network that's well maintained and sign posted than a massive one that's decrepit and poorly signed.