Battery Death

growler

the battery on my 18 month old Dell ( yes, dell) died today, I doubt i've used battery power for more than 4 hours since I first bought it, but I expect that all batteries have a shelf life and this one's just ran out.

Annoyingly the toobar icon continued to show the battery as charging and I had lots of flashing red lights distracting me from my internet poker playing. .. so I removed the offending battery and the lights went away.

Question: will having a big hole in the underside of the laptop cuse any problems ..dust etc. getting in there ?

Is there any risk in buying a new battery , £25 on ebay, through non Dell channels ?

Even better, any way of checking why this died when it did, and if when I get a new one am I better off leaving it in / out , charged / empty to get the most life out of the fella?

Any advice appreciated.

MunsterCycling

In fact not doing this from the beginning when you weren't needing to be mobile has very likely been the cause of your battery dying from overcharging. Just keep it in a clean area when you remove the battery and it should be fine.

riptide

MunsterCycling wrote:

In fact not doing this from the beginning when you weren't needing to be mobile has very likely been the cause of your battery dying from overcharging. Just keep it in a clean area when you remove the battery and it should be fine.

Amen!! Growler.... like mobile phone battery and other rechargeable ones, if you DO NOT discharge and recharge every so often the chemicals in the battery will become inert and not perform as intended. They in effect gain what some people call 'memory', and will only discharge and recharge within the limits of what they have discharged and recharged before. Now even the best kept batteries will deteriate and die, anyways... but only using it for 4 hours has ensured its demise!

TempestSabre

Batteries have a shelf life regardless if you use them or not. Just replaced my lappies battery with some from ebay. Took 3 days to come from china and where a third of the price of them here. €50 instead of €150. Seem to hold a charge well.

rogue-entity

Let me put a few myths to rest before we continue this discussion.

First, yes it is good to totally discharge a battery (until the laptop powers off) and then charge up fully at least once a month. It keeps the battery in good condition.

Second, no, you cant over charge a battery by leaving it in the laptop the whole time. The battery automaticly cuts off the charge circuit when the battery is "full", this is similar to the system that "kills" batteries after a certain period of time.

Third, modern laptop batteries are Li-Ion or Li-Polymer. These dont suffer from the memory effect. You can charge them 1/2 of the way, discharge them, charge them 1/2 again and so on for days and still be able to fully charge the battery. Older Ni-Cad and Ni-MH batteries had the memory problem.

Now, all Li-Ion (currently used by Dell) batteries have a finite number of charge cycles. This is about 300-350. When this cycle is reached the batteries themselves "die". A circuit in the battery just stops it from charging although windows will still say charging 0%. You will get those flashing lights. It is safe to leave the battery in the laptop, I still do. But 18 months is awfully short life, the battery in mine lasted 5 years before I got it second hand, and it lasted another 6 months for me before dying. Contact dell and see if they will give you a free replacement as it may be under warrenty.

TempestSabre

rogue-entity wrote:

....Second, no, you cant over charge a battery by leaving it in the laptop the whole time. The battery automaticly cuts off the charge circuit when the battery is "full", this is similar to the system that "kills" batteries after a certain period of time.....

Pretty much every destop replacement I've seen that is on AC most of the time destroys batteries super fast. Mine lasted about a year before i was useless. Lots of places recommend removing the battery on a laptop if its on AC most of the time. AFAIK most laptops run off the battery all the time, even when plugged in, so the battery is constantly being run down and recharged. Only when you remove the battery does it stop using the battery.

If you unplug a laptop that running from AC it doesn't switch off. So that would suggest its running from the battery, like a UPS when on AC.

growler

if Li ion battery is designed to only last (presumably for a good reason) 350 odd times, then why doesn't the manufacturer recommend that you use your laptop without the battery whenever possible, or at least recommend not using the battery for very short periods ?

There is no way I have used / discharged in full the battery 300+ plus times.

As for Dell warranty : I very much doubt it and not sure i'm willing to put myself through the pain of dealing with them.

riptide

TempestSabre wrote:

If you unplug a laptop that running from AC it doesn't switch off. So that would suggest its running from the battery, like a UPS when on AC.

And so when i pull out the battery on this here dell when its on AC it still runs.What does that suggest?

TempestSabre

I assume its hidden in the manual somewhere and also they make money from the batteries.

TempestSabre

riptide wrote:

And so when i pull out the battery on this here dell when its on AC it still runs.What does that suggest?

The AC lead is ok?

Mutant_Fruit

TempestSabre wrote:

If you unplug a laptop that running from AC it doesn't switch off. So that would suggest its running from the battery, like a UPS when on AC.

riptide wrote:

when i pull out the battery on this here dell when its on AC it still runs.What does that suggest?

So, when the AC lead is plugged in, does it run off the AC or the battery. According to quote 1: It runs off the battery, according to quote 2, it runs off the AC.

Oooh, the contradictions!

bpmurray

Silly discussion: the battery is designed to sit in the machine, even though it's plugged in, and no, it does *NOT* cause it to over-charge, under-charge, sit up and beg or whatever - it's what you're supposed to do!

Back to the original point: it sounds to me that you should call Dell & ask them if it's under warrenty - it's an absurdly short lifetime.

conzy

Now, all Li-Ion (currently used by Dell) batteries have a finite number of charge cycles. This is about 300-350

Thats about a year for a "heavy" laptop user:eek:

TempestSabre

Some trawling the web seems to indicate that its heat not charge/discharge patterns that shorten battery life. Which seems to make sense. Destop replacement laptops will run hotter than other types of laptop shortening the life of the battery. Equally removing the battery keeps it cooler, prolonging the battery. http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm Its so awkward to remove the batteries on my lappy that I wouldn't be bothered with the hassle.