98 Red Balloons

fuzzbox

PP 3/6 6-max
600 stacks

Preflop
dude limps utg, I limp on the button with 9h8h, dude makes it 27 from the SB, solid reg calls in BB, utg folds, and I call.

Flop (87)
9s9d7c
SB leads for 80, reg folds, I call

Turn (247)
Th
SB leads for 152, leaving himself 300 ..... your move, and why?

Edit - it was raiser who was acting everywhere

Rnger

solid reg calls in the BB yet on the flop you say the BB bets and reg folds. Is it the SB who actually bets? It makes a fairly big difference

fuzzbox

Sorry - ... fixed

bubbleking

im raising here to leave the BB with 100 behind if he calls. iv no doubt that your ahead because the BB would not come out firing if he had trip nines on the flop. id put him on a high pair after calling the preflop raise and firing on the flop. theres enough in the pot to take it down now as i dont want the BB to get a look at the river too cheaply. if a gun was put to my head id say he has QQ or JJ but then again its not my money

Rnger

Looks like a high pair. I would tend to just call this and let the SB hang himself on the river. Pushing now could look like you completed a straight and AA could fold. I cant see AK making two shots at this pot with such a dodgy turn card but its still a small possibility. So the only way your getting any more here off AK is the unlikely triple barrel bluff.

I think your still ahead. If he raises I'm calling. If he calls and checks the river, I'm pushing. If he's going to call a 150 bet, he's probably going to call a 300 bet. The only had I can see you behind here is TT, ul if he hit that

bubbleking

Rnger wrote:

only had I can see you behind here is TT, ul if he hit that

why would he fire for $152 when he has the stone cold nuts?

CoD

bubbleking wrote:

why would he fire for $152 when he has the stone cold nuts?

nice 2/3 pot bet to get called/pushed by a 9, or a str8, lower fullhouse.


Fuzz, any raise put him all in, and I'd rather do it here, than on an awkward river. All in.

bubbleking

CoD wrote:

nice 2/3 pot bet to get called/pushed by a 9, or a str8, lower fullhouse.

no way if that was the case then any good player would let the player with them hands hang themselves. the stone cold nuts doesnt come around very often and you just have to hope someone else has a hand when you pick it up. check smooth call then push works every time.

fuzzbox

bubbleking wrote:

no way if that was the case then any good player would let the player with them hands hang themselves. the stone cold nuts doesnt come around very often and you just have to hope someone else has a hand when you pick it up. check smooth call then push works every time.

Bubble - are you suggesting that :

If villain had TT, and hit the nuts, that he would check the turn, and call any bet that I might make, and then open push the river?

If you do this - you should stop.

bubbleking

fuzzbox wrote:

Bubble - are you suggesting that :

If villain had TT, and hit the nuts, that he would check the turn, and call any bet that I might make, and then open push the river?

If you do this - you should stop.

no no i was saying that if he did have TT and you had one of the hands that Co D was suggesting id play it like that. would you really fold a lower house or a straight to an all in river bet?????

fuzzbox

bubbleking wrote:

no no i was saying that if he did have TT and you had one of the hands that Co D was suggesting id play it like that. would you really fold a lower house or a straight to an all in river bet?????

No, but I would fold lots of other hands.

I wouldnt fold a lower house if he bet the turn either ..... so what have you gained ?

bubbleking

fuzzbox wrote:

No, but I would fold lots of other hands.

I wouldnt fold a lower house if he bet the turn either ..... so what have you gained ?

yeah sorry your right i should have put more thought into that im still on the learning curve. is it the right move on his behalf in this situation to bet 2/3 of the pot?? just for future reference when i have the nuts

fuzzbox

Bubble - when you make a big hand - you should bet it most often.

Why would you not bet it? You want to win money dont you?

Bandana boy

I think TT often leads here and if he has it your losing your Boll0x
But his range is a lot bigger than TT and if so he might have str8 draw/over pair
Call and leave him guessing
Hopefully he leads/calls your bet back on river

fuzzbox

Results:
Ok - the real question was - call or shove.

During the hand, I just had horrible premonitions of him having JJ and hitting an 8. I didnt think about the fact that an 8 would fill me up.
I also thought that his 150 bet was pretty weak, and that he would fold if I pushed. But I pushed anyway, and villain folded.

If the T was a 2, then I was planning to call, but the T made a lot of straights possible .... but I really dont think he had a straight draw. He prolly had JJ+.

I think call is the best plan ... "if I could turn back time"

Jaden

I agree with Fuzzy here. Jasus, bet your big hands unless you are playing a guy you KNOW will raise for you.

I bet trips all the time, people just don't expect you to do it.

Ste05

I'd push this turn too, it was a good bet by the villain in the hand. I'd say either way you weren't getting paid off on the river unless he housed up. Push here.

Exactly what hands do you think he puts you on after calling the turn that an overpair will pay off on a blank river??

fuzzbox

Dunno ... 88?

Surely I have some chance of him paying off a bet?
Ur prolly right though, he really wants to fold, so he already believes hes beat.

Rnger

T8s is just about possible! ...good point Ste.

Consider that the villian is a terrible player and may donk another bet on the river, odds are your hand will hold up to one more card.

Bandana boy

I think that there is a larger range of hands behind that will fold a re-raise and value bet the river than call re-raise and be behind

Cianos

If you call the turn bet villain will check the river...then you will probably put him all in and he could easily fold a lot of hands. I would be more in favour of min raising here...yes, it screams you have the 9, but plenty of times villain will find it too hard to get away from and it with a lot of hands and will also leave him pot committed for the river all in.

I dont like pushing all in because it makes it way too easy to get away from plenty of hands.

fuzzbox

Villain is not braindead ... he will understand that minraise is effectively the same as push.

Ste05

LOL, yeah, but it's so annoying it might just work.

EDIT: Although might not be good for the auld table image against a regular opponent.

pok3rplaya

fuzzbox wrote:

Results:
Ok - the real question was - call or shove.

During the hand, I just had horrible premonitions of him having JJ and hitting an 8. I didnt think about the fact that an 8 would fill me up.
I also thought that his 150 bet was pretty weak, and that he would fold if I pushed. But I pushed anyway, and villain folded.

If the T was a 2, then I was planning to call, but the T made a lot of straights possible .... but I really dont think he had a straight draw. He prolly had JJ+.

I think call is the best plan ... "if I could turn back time"

A call makes it look alot like your either drawing or looking for a cheap showdown. If you he checks to you on the river you could push like a missed draw. Depends on the river card though, a bad one might shut him down. I guess though that he doesn't look all that strong on the turn and is vulnerable to folding if you push., plus there's more non-scare cards left then scares. I'm leaning towards call.

Is he capable of firing the second barrel at you often?

Cianos

fuzzbox wrote:

Villain is not braindead ... he will understand that minraise is effectively the same as push.

He's not braindead but he could easily be tempted by the size of the bet in relation to the pot. He is representing strength by betting the turn...he is basically saying that anyone who flat called the flop bet to represent the 9 better back off, because I dont think you have it. If you call the turn he will have to think that you have something, so he will slow right down if he doesnt improve.

I think its more probable that you will get the rest of his stack by tempting him to call a min raise and then the rest on the river.

The only merit you would have for flat calling is to hope he puts you on a straight draw and convinces himself to call the river.

fuzzbox

Cianos wrote:

He's not braindead but he could easily be tempted by the size of the bet in relation to the pot. He is representing strength by betting the turn...he is basically saying that anyone who flat called the flop bet to represent the 9 better back off, because I dont think you have it. If you call the turn he will have to think that you have something, so he will slow right down if he doesnt improve.

I think its more probable that you will get the rest of his stack by tempting him to call a min raise and then the rest on the river.

The only merit you would have for flat calling is to hope he puts you on a straight draw and convinces himself to call the river.

This is fallacy - he knows that minraise = push, because the rest goes in on any river. He has 300 left, its not like he has 1000 left and I might be bluffing him with a minraise, threatening his 1k. A minraise asks him to put in 150 more of his remaining 300 ... and is therefore precisely the same as a push, except its even MORE obvious.

Goodluck2me

playing the other night in the fitz one pot relating some posts here. hero has 88 in cut off and raises small blind calls as do 2 other. flop 8,6,3 SB bets 3/4 pot hero calls. turn comes a 6 SB bets pot this time hero flat calls. 7 on the river SB bets out again, hero reraises SB all in, hero calls. SB has 66 and had bet out his quads, there were 650 reasons to bet out with the nuts there!

fuzzbox

goodluck2me wrote:

playing the other night in the fitz one pot relating some posts here. hero has 88 in cut off and raises small blind calls as do 2 other. flop 8,6,3 SB bets 3/4 pot hero calls. turn comes a 6 SB bets pot this time hero flat calls. 7 on the river SB bets out again, hero reraises SB all in, hero calls. SB has 66 and had bet out his quads, there were 650 reasons to bet out with the nuts there!

It didnt matter what the protagonists did, on any street in that particular hand, because all the money was going in no matter what.

Hectorjelly

goodluck2me wrote:

playing the other night in the fitz one pot relating some posts here. hero has 88 in cut off and raises small blind calls as do 2 other. flop 8,6,3 SB bets 3/4 pot hero calls. turn comes a 6 SB bets pot this time hero flat calls. 7 on the river SB bets out again, hero reraises SB all in, hero calls. SB has 66 and had bet out his quads, there were 650 reasons to bet out with the nuts there!

LOL - I was talking to the guy who won that hand today. Very unlucky