Hand Reading

Hectorjelly

This is a low stakes mtt. The player has been raising a fair amount, usually in late position. He has raised to 3bb each time. No hand has been showndown.

The Snapper

Whats the twist here HJ.:)

RoundTower

Obviously it depends on what hand you have.

NickyOD

I think he has 7-9, probably suited in spades.

BrokenArrows

well if hes doing it alot and always from late position he could be doing it with anything.

You said that it has never gone to a showdown and he may realise this and be chancing his arm with anything.

fuzzbox

I put him on one of those hands you listed... with no further ability to refine my choice.

I also add A-rag and some trouble hands to the mix.

Basically - the man/woman has two cards

Culchie

Any two cards if he's targeting the same BB

pokypoky

hmm..reminds me of a hand I played last night. I put him on a low pp like 2s for example

BigDragon

Wheres the "Ive got 3 fairly solid players to my left that are able to lay down total crap but are not afraid to re-pop a known chancer who will standard raise with any 2 cards when it has been folded to him" option?

accensi0n

A hat.

Daithio

Where's the all of the above option? He could have any one of those hands mentioned.

BigDragon

Maybe he means like this .....

I lost the min but was still the worst hand I played all tournie.

The C Kid

A joker and a Get Out Of Jail Free Card imo.

shoutman

Yea BigD don't really know what you were doing with those bets on the turn and river.

As for the question, I think an all of the above option should be available.

Lafortezza

I think I got my vote wrong.

Which is the most likely hand for Villain to have mathematically? Correct answer is probably suited connectors.

cardshark202

I can't choose because any of these are possible. I think its a trick question and anyone who voted has been fooled.

EDIT: Just saw Laf's answer. If its mathematically then any suited connector.

Hectorjelly

yes it was a trick question, allthough lafs answer is pretty good. Unless there is some timing tell involved (and im on dial up at the moment so thats out the window) there is no way to put someone on a hand based on the preflop information if they are raising a standard amount. You can narrow the range down certainly, based on certain information, but when someone raises in late position the same amount they have raised every time before all you can say really is they have above average cards. In the hand PokyPoky mentioned I was raising a small stack in the blinds, so my range is much tighter than usual.

What you can do is gauge their frequency and try and get a rough idea of their ranges, but picking a hand basically at random based on NO relevent information has nothing to do with hand reading, and everything to do with wishfull thinking.

I constantly hear after hands, oh I put you on xx, where as Roundtower alluded to xx is the one hand that your hand can beat or are a coin toss with. Dont do this.

Hectorjelly

BigDragon wrote:

Maybe he means like this .....

I lost the min but was still the worst hand I played all tournie.

I loved that hand, glad I checked the flop!

I didnt like the bets on the turn and river at the time, but if you had of checked I would of bet more on the river. Funnily enough if you chk raised the river all in (I probably would of chked turn) I probably fold.

pokypoky

Hectorjelly wrote:

In the hand PokyPoky mentioned I was raising a small stack in the blinds, so my range is much tighter than usual.

Hey man would you mind explaining this, I thought the fact that I was in the blinds would make you more likely to attempt a steal because its folded around to you in mid/late position and I think there are two players between you and me. These players are guaranteed not to get involved witout a premium hand at this stage given that I'm in the blinds and short so you are guaranteed they fold all but the very best hands.

As for myself, I presumed you were just picking on the shorty. I was an easy target in the BB and could have (maybe should have) folded and waited but I was desperate for the double up so perhaps I'd do it again given that you raised everytime it was folded around to you, but I'm not sure

jimbling

pokypoky wrote:

Hey man would you mind explaining this, I thought the fact that I was in the blinds would make you more likely to attempt a steal because its folded around to you in mid/late position and I think there are two players between you and me. These players are guaranteed not to get involved witout a premium hand at this stage given that I'm in the blinds and short so you are guaranteed they fold all but the very best hands.

As for myself, I presumed you were just picking on the shorty. I was an easy target in the BB and could have (maybe should have) folded and waited but I was desperate for the double up so perhaps I'd do it again given that you raised everytime it was folded around to you, but I'm not sure

pick on medium stacks.... not on shortys

Rnger

Yes it was a "trick" question. Nice cover up HJ

BigDragon

Hectorjelly wrote:

I loved that hand, glad I checked the flop!

I didnt like the bets on the turn and river at the time, but if you had of checked I would of bet more on the river. Funnily enough if you chk raised the river all in (I probably would of chked turn) I probably fold.

Haha. My plan was, knowing your range (as you had open raised 3xbb nearly every chance you got), to flat call and then push if the flop looked favourable. When the hearts came I decided that I was not going bust here and tried to make the turn and river look like extraction bets. The check on the flop was to give you the chance to represent and for me to decide what to do then. When you checked it I was sure you had a heart. When the heart came on the turn the hand was over for me. I was happy with my image, position and thw players on the table. Your constant open raising put me in a great position so that I could open when you didnt and I build up some steam in those situations.

All in all a very educational hand. Ya chancer....

Hectorjelly

pokypoky wrote:

Hey man would you mind explaining this, I thought the fact that I was in the blinds would make you more likely to attempt a steal because its folded around to you in mid/late position and I think there are two players between you and me. These players are guaranteed not to get involved witout a premium hand at this stage given that I'm in the blinds and short so you are guaranteed they fold all but the very best hands.

As for myself, I presumed you were just picking on the shorty. I was an easy target in the BB and could have (maybe should have) folded and waited but I was desperate for the double up so perhaps I'd do it again given that you raised everytime it was folded around to you, but I'm not sure

Shortstacks have nothing to lose and so will push with a very wide range, that means that when raising them you want to have a hand that is likely to be best - because you cant count on them folding that often.

A bigger stack might have a hand like A2, now they would realise that A2 is better than a lot of hands im raising with, but if they push and are called they are in big trouble. Considering they are out of position their best option is probably to fold, as long as im not getting too much out of line.

kincsem

Is this a sneaky preparation for the boards World Cup 2010 tourney
Know your enemy ........

kincsem

Mmmm ...... hand reading

Was this by a strange, mysterious lady in Galway?...... the cross my palm with silver story thread

TacT

I knew I should have posted his range was somewhere between 22-AA or 23s-AKs when I saw this but alas, I did not

pokypoky

Hectorjelly wrote:

Shortstacks have nothing to lose and so will push with a very wide range

I did have something to lose..the possibility of being stuck with a Rooneyless England.....

but doesn't the tightening effect of my position in the blinds on the range of the 2-3 players before me, compensate for the fact that my range may be slightly wider. The fact that I'm so short in the blinds effectively changes your position from mid to late. If its folded around to you on the button in that situation surely your range is everything.

Hectorjelly

pokypoky wrote:

I did have something to lose..the possibility of being stuck with a Rooneyless England.....

but doesn't the tightening effect of my position in the blinds on the range of the 2-3 players before me, compensate for the fact that my range may be slightly wider. The fact that I'm so short in the blinds effectively changes your position from mid to late. If its folded around to you on the button in that situation surely your range is everything.

I think you are overestimating the depth to which the other players are paying attention to the stacks and no Im not raising a shortstack with everything. Against a shortstack you have to asume you have virtually 0 folding equity, so you need at least A2 maybe Kx.

Culchie

Hey HJ,

I got myself in a world of trouble with you on that final table. I had just had to lay down QQ's to Big D for quite a big pot when he made a loose call and caught his King;) , and had to get busy again.

I raised your BB on a steal with 78 ... you re-raised me, and because of your somewhat ahem large re-raising range (perceived anyway) I felt compelled to call you, hoping for the miracle flop.

Lesson learned anyway:(