IRL: 2X12 - "Fire + Water" [**SPOILERS WITHIN**]

Rollo Tamasi

- WARNING: THIS THREAD WILL CONTAIN SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NOT YET SEEN "Fire + Water" -

Episode Title: "Fire + Water"
Airdate: May 01 2006

Synopsis (from TV.Com):

When Charlie's vividly surreal dreams lead him to believe Claire's baby, Aaron, is in danger, Locke suspects Charlie may be using again. Meanwhile, Sawyer encourages Hurley to act on his attraction to Libby.

Rollo Tamasi

I thought there was something odd today about the lack of activity on the Lost Forum. Didn't figure it out untill I saw Lost on the tv.

Faith

Ah, that's what it was!

Crap episode anyway, it really irritated me.

Cooee

I actually thought this was a really good episode. There was something that I can't quite put my finger on but I think that when we look back a number of important things were either mentioned or alluded to this week!

No continuation of the discussion about training an army, that was just left hanging, just a mention of the two of them spending a lot of time in the jungle.

And a DOH moment for me! Isn't Charlie a street slang word for Heroin? Coincidence? And Locke apprared to be even more malevolent that ever............the guy is beginning to become very creeepy.

Crucifix

Jesus, who pissed in Locke's cheerio's this week?
I thought it was just ok. Bit weird.

Faith

Cooee wrote:

Isn't Charlie a street slang word for Heroin?

No, charlie is slang for cocaine, afaik.

Binka

Poor episode. No real revelations. Charlie's heroin addiction has already been covered. More flashbacks of his brother using. Baby connection....Pointless.
I hope next week is better.

Necronomicon

Wasn't impressed at all tonight. Something that really irked me, typical of Lost at times, they end an episode with a hook, a bit of a surprise ending, and then they don't elaborate on it at all in the next episode. Jack and Anna Lucia's conversation goes from "So....how long would it take to raise an army?" to "Let's play truth or dare....are you doing Kate?!?!?!?!?!"
As for Charlie, there were no revelations in his back-story at all. What was the point in jumping back in time to when the band was falling apart? They have that touching moment when you think that his brother is going to give things another try when he joins Charlie at the piano......and then you remember last season we already saw that his brother gives up the drugs, moves to Australia and settles down with a family.
Poor enough episode.

NUTZZ

Very weak episode, couldn't even be bothered discussing it...

Rollo Tamasi

libby noticing that the tumble dryer seemed newer than the rest of the electronic items is interesting.....

pokerwidow

Gave it a 5. Bit of a disappointment.:(

Anima

libby noticing that the tumble dryer seemed newer than the rest of the electronic items is interesting.....

Wasn't there something about this bit? Like it was a mistake or something.. I can't remember anyway.

prospect

Two things that stood out in this epsiode for me were:

1. Libby's comment about the Tumble Dryer, - Interesting.
2. Why Locke kept the Virgin Mary Statues? - Surely the best action would be to destroy them & their contents.

Earthhorse

This episode was just weird.

fobs

Gave it a 5. Thought it was poor enough. Didn't feel i leanred anything from Charlie's back story. Also thought Locke seemed very moody this week and didn't seem to want to have the child christened?
Also noticed that Libby seemed to hesitate when Hurley asked her "Did we meet before" before saying about the foot incident so maybe there is more to that story. All in all disapointing episode.

Dades

Thought it was a good episode.

Annoyed though at everyone judging poor Charlie. Everyone is so smug and disapproving. And Locke's character has changed. The Locke of last season wouldn't have punched some kid with emotional problems in the face repeatedly.

Am hoping for Charlies redemption (and proving right) next week.

The Black Oil

The Atheist wrote:

And Locke's character has changed. The Locke of last season wouldn't have punched some kid with emotional problems in the face repeatedly.

I would agree with that, seemed quite unlike Locke.

Rollo Tamasi

Anima wrote:

Wasn't there something about this bit? Like it was a mistake or something.. I can't remember anyway.

a mistake as in a scripting error? doubt it because.....in the 2nd last US episode that we watched....

it would explain the delivery

Newaglish

What I found very interesting was when Hurley said to Libby that he thought he recognised her. She then seemed evasive and tried to throw him off saying he stepped on her toe. Or that's how it seemed to me anyway.

My theory?
She's a psychologist
He was in a mental institution

Connection? Hmmm!

Haven't a Clue

That stare from Locke was putting a thousand questions a minute through my head. What's he up to? Is Aaron actually in danger? etc, etc. There's something wrong there and I reckon Locke'll do something with Aaron.

Also good to see him punch Charlie. He deserved it.

Earthhorse

Locke is clearly in league with the Others (having led Jack and Sawyer into their hands last week) and planning on taking Aaron and handing him over just as soon as he can.

Or not.

yom 1

^^^
that just made me think of something there

Have any of the others infiltrated the camp like they did the tailer's

This episode pissed me off and it aint often i say theat about lost. Absolutely no mention of "The Army" or where the hell Michael is. It wrecked my head. They really made Charlie out to be a loser, and I hope he does end up saving Aaron.

Ps the dryer looked completely out of place down in the hatch and it looked brand new(anyone got a pic) so how is it there.

The Hill Billy

It certainly seems that Locke's character is changing for some reason.
Thinking of the earlier episodes where he helped Charlie overcome his addiction...
It is a different Locke that we see taking the heroin statues from Charlie (with the unsaid threat of violence if he tried to stop him) & then to strike him three times on the shore. The beating seeming to be a punishment rather than a reaction to the situation. Not the Locke of old.

Haven't a Clue

Not enjoying the island as much now. I don't think he's working with 'the others' though because he looked as shocked as anyone after the discussion Jack and Zeek had. Then again, who knows?

Faith

yom 1 wrote:

^^^
that just made me think of something there

Have any of the others infiltrated the camp like they did the tailer's

Um, Ethan?

weemcd

in parts not a strong episode, more left me with some general intrigue.. for a change :rolleyes: . Didnt enjoy Charlie's back story at all but his hallucinations were good, Hurley as Jesus was fantastic.

Definatly seeing a change in locke now too, his subtle understanding and ability to see past the seemingly obvious and read the other islanders didnt seem apparent last night. The locke of old would have seen charlie wasnt using, rather keeping the statues as a safety net, or perhaps a shrine to the addiction he has overcome (it did however look like he would start re-using before locke got to him.)

Since locke seemed like a spiritual "extension of the island" in season one perhaps he is changing, I feel he may have more to do with the others, or has met with zeeke before - its a feeling i got from the last episode, since he wouldnt carry on looking for michael even though jack was convinced he didnt loose the trail.

Eko marking the trees he "liked" was very strange indeed, i think he picked up that charlies dream was a projection of his own fears and insecurities. Perhaps he is feeling the divine intervention of the island locke once felt, after he stood up to the black smoke - locke did the same in season one. There is definatly going to be an exchange between the two of them soon, hopefully revealing how much the other knows about their surroundings.

i voted 6 for this thread, but after thinking about the episode more extensivly, id probably give it a 7 or an 8 now

yom 1

Faith wrote:

Um, Ethan?

forgot bout him thanks

but he wasn't there at the start he just arrived after a while didn't he.

Christ I cant remember very much about him

Faith

He didn't turn up for a good few episodes, but I think you were supposed to assume that he'd been there all along. Certainly, by the time we were first introduced to him, the Losties seemed familiar with him.

BFassassin

not a good epsode i gave it a 5 i hope next weeks is better

Basq

I think i was alone in actually enjoying this episode when it first aired with everyone else pissing all over it (see the US discussion thread here.. enjoyed the conflict with Locke and also some fantastic shots and direction by Jack Bender. More of my comments right here in the US thread as i don't feel like re-iterating them!

But for all those disappointed, believe me when i say you're in for a solid few damn solid episodes from now on!

PS - Rollo, thanks for creating the episode discussion thread.. just remembered it earlier on this afternoon. Am thrown off with college work, exams and a bank holiday thrown into the mix. Cheers again!

JBoyle4eva

Well despite a good backstory and poor charlie i gave this a 7. The ep did very little in moving on the storyline and the fact that I'm even more confused by Locke's character is fustrating.

However, I did like the ep, as Charlie is one of my fave characters(Probably because we don't see him enough). I think that the piano will be symbolic in Charlie's character.

Rollo Tamasi

basquille wrote:

PS - Rollo, thanks for creating the episode discussion thread.. just remembered it earlier on this afternoon. Am thrown off with college work, exams and a bank holiday thrown into the mix. Cheers again!

no bother love, x

Haven't a Clue

weemcd wrote:

Definatly seeing a change in locke now too, his subtle understanding and ability to see past the seemingly obvious and read the other islanders didnt seem apparent last night. The locke of old would have seen charlie wasnt using, rather keeping the statues as a safety net, or perhaps a shrine to the addiction he has overcome (it did however look like he would start re-using before locke got to him.)

But maybe Locke's up to something.

Maybe Locke is going to do something to Aaron. A lot of the camp probably had already though that Charlie had started using again so Locke could have taken the statues so that people's perceptions of Locke would have gone up, and they would have thought even worse of Charlie.

Locke probably saw Charlie as a threat with the whole "Aaron's in trouble" thing so took the drugs to gain the moral advantage over him. He obviously succeeded with the looks of disgust that Charlie got.

Just a theory.:rolleyes:

The Hill Billy

Locke also seemed a tad surprised when Charlie said the he & Eko set fire to the plane & the cache of heroin. Maybe Locke has some plan that involves heroin - otherwise why did he not destroy the gear he took from Charlie?

loon

with the lack of medcines, he's probably keeping it as a pain killer...

... and i mean for operations etc, not headaches... before you pedantics have your say.

MIGWAR-DWP

Surely you mean 'pedants'....

Dades

MIGWAR-DWP wrote:

Surely you mean 'pedants'....

Inspiring first post.

Undergod

Trippy episode, loved angel Hurley, it's getting pretty weird. Hope it can keep it up without getting irrelevant.

Didn't like how they completely ignored michael and Army storylines though. Tres annoying.

Killaqueen!!!

Seeing it from everyone else's eyes, it's understandable why Locke acted the way he did...I still think he was a bit of an asswipe though. At first, when Charlie was annoyed about Locke being so close to Claire, it was nothing. But now, I actually agree with Charlie slightly. I know Charlie has no right to act the father figure on Claire's baby if she doesn't want him to. But either does Locke.

This episode wasn't great. I don't think there's ever been a BAD episode of Lost, because no matter what..I'm still interested in it. I don't think they needed a whole episode devoted to this subject but even though it was slightly pointless I'm sure it's not pointless at all...and probably an important part of the whole story.

The dream was kind of interesting....not much to talk about here, though. I hope next weeks episode is better.

Fridge

weemcd wrote:

Eko marking the trees he "liked" was very strange indeed, i think he picked up that charlies dream was a projection of his own fears and insecurities.

What? How is marking the trees weird? He has to pick trees with good wood for his church, and he's going to need a lot, so it's just good planning to pick the good ones out now.

I really wasn't disappointed with this episode. The flashbacks don't have a sole purpose of shocking us with revelations from people's past. We already knew pretty much what the story was with him and his brother, but it did tell us that they both were under a lot of pressure to succeed, either as performers or butchers. It also backs up what Locke was saying, about Charlie trying to save Aaron cos he couldn't save himself.

Basically I think they were trying to confuse us in this episode, or be conflicted. It's hard to watch Charlie's flashbacks, see how he got into this mess, and then see Locke beat him up. But then when you think of what Locke sees - he tried to help him, but Charlie really does appear to be using - he has the sypmtoms, he lied and really does have a stash of the Mary statues, and saw him break one open. It's a reasonable conclusion to come to.

Locke is not infallible. He was made out to be really wise, but he's clearly not always right. He just thinks he is.

What I am confused about is why he didn't get rid of the heroin, like throw it in the sea or sprinkle it over the ground? Why the hell did he put it in the hatch safe? Is he gonna use it over Charlie at a later date?

Another Q: Why is Charlie saying "Aaron" like "Erin" now? I was like wtf?
I am so sure he pronounced it "Aaron" before, but now it's changed. He's saying it like Claire is now, but he's not Australian!

Oh and Libby was TOTALLY lying her ass off and trying to distract him with the top, although she probably likes him anyway. But she made the toe thing up definitely. Must be the mental hospital thing.

Faith

Yeah, the Aaron/ Erin thing really irritates me!

Fuzzy_Dunlop

Fridge wrote:

What? How is marking the trees weird? He has to pick trees with good wood for his church, and he's going to need a lot, so it's just good planning to pick the good ones out now.

since when is Eko building a church?, did i miss something or is this just an odd joke.

Fridge

playa3 wrote:

since when is Eko building a church?, did i miss something or is this just an odd joke.

Can't remember what episode, was probably the one before last. He said he was building a church.

Although if he's gonna build a church, he might as well build a big house for them all to live in. But then it'd be easier for them to be killed all at the one time because if they were all in the one building asleep and the Others set fire to it, they'd be ****ed.