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Howard Shore plagiarised Antonín Dvořák ?

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  • 30-04-2006 9:41pm
    #1
    unreg1987
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23 ✭


    Hey,

    I was just listening to a bit of Dvořák today, (very good composer btw) and really noticed that "Allegro con fuoco" (out of his 9th Symphony, "From the New World") is really similar to one of Howard Shore's pieces from Lord of the Rings: Return of the King (I think it's the main theme, not certain though, don't have the score and havn't watched the film in a while).

    It's not like Allegro con fuoco is an exact copy, it's just the opening few bars, which are repeated at the 6:40 and 9:30 marks approx. ( this is the Israel Philharmonic conducted by Bernstein, so the time may vary if depending on your recording's pace) I know a lot of classical music sounds similar, but those couple of bars struck me as being almost 100% out of Lord of The Rings.

    I'm not saying Howard Shore is a plagiarist, he only stole part of a movement, but it still gets you thinking- as far as I can remember he had to compose up to 3 mins. of score a day because he was under time pressure.

    Can anyone confirm this similarity or is it just in my head?


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    #2
    HusseinSarhan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 354 ✭✭HusseinSarhan


    I have not heard the LOTR soundtrack in ages and I've got a different recording of Dvořák so I can't be certain but there are a load of different themes going on in that part of the symphony. Overall I don't think it's plagarisation.

    The Dvořák is very good though.

    There is actually a line that symphony pretty similar to the "you got me spending" vocal line in "My Hump" by Black Eyed Peas or whatever the song's called... you know the one.


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    #3
    HusseinSarhan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 354 ✭✭HusseinSarhan


    My Humps I meant.


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    #4
    EvilGeorge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 875 ✭✭✭EvilGeorge


    Its public domain and everyone does it - cant blame shore.
    Besides most composers borrow music to create even more - I still enjoy the soundtrack regardless.


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    #5
    violatom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 28 ✭violatom


    Listen to Holst's Planets (esp Mars) then to the Gladiator soundtrack. Composers are always doing that kinda thing. If it ain't broke...


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    #6
    Sophs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭Sophs


    Pop music composers are always at it. See Celine Dion, All by Myself, and compare to Rachmaninov 2nd Piano Concerto, I think it's the 2nd movement.


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    #7
    dub45
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,448 Mod ✭✭✭✭dub45


    The new world symphony itself uses non original themes ironically enough!

    Interesting article here:

    http://www.classicalnotes.net/classics/newworld.html


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    #8
    peteballagh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 59 ✭✭peteballagh


    Now you say it, it is a bit similar to the main LOTR theme. But you can't take anything away from the LOTR soundtrack it's awesome, there's a lot of different themes and leitmotifs which are developed brilliantly with lots of variations.

    But John William's main theme for Jaws is definitely ripped of that movement of the New World - just listen to the opening bars of each.


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    #9
    Sinfonia
    Registered Users Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭Sinfonia


    violatom wrote: »
    Listen to Holst's Planets
    and
    peteballagh wrote: »
    John Williams


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    #10
    The Mad Hatter
    Registered Users Posts: 4,718 ✭✭✭The Mad Hatter


    violatom wrote: »
    Listen to Holst's Planets (esp Mars) then to the Gladiator soundtrack. Composers are always doing that kinda thing. If it ain't broke...

    *cough* Film composers, maybe!


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    #11
    Coileach dearg
    Registered Users Posts: 416 ✭✭Coileach dearg


    "A good composer borrows, a great composer steals" - Igor Stravinsky


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    #12
    The Mad Hatter
    Registered Users Posts: 4,718 ✭✭✭The Mad Hatter


    Coileach dearg wrote: »
    "A good composer borrows, a great composer steals" - Igor Stravinsky

    Ah, Stravinsky once again creating controversy. Fortunately it's rubbish, and applies to very few composers other than he.


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