Weird Feeling about the Catholic church.

Chong

Ok may be the title is incorrect but I couldnt come up with anything better. I have been raised a Catholic, and I must admit I have been a pretty dedicated one since my birth 22 years ago. Now over the past year I have questioned my belief in the catholic church, its not due to any sort of controversy that questions my belief. I go to mass every week without fail, but I feel I have more belief for God on the whole and dont really account for Jesus's work. As a result I haven't taken communion since Christmas. So basically my question is, am I part of the wrong religion, due to my lack of belief in Jesus.

Willem

Karoma

Well, generally speaking, if you're not a believer in Jesus Christ then Christianity isn't really for you. Please go into more detail on your views/opinions of Jesus - do you see him as a holy man at all, a philosopher, a prophet... what?

Chong

Well I suppose my opinion in general, would be that Jesus was a great man who did amazing work on behalf of God, preaching the word of god. When I say my daily prayers I pray solely to God and always have which has led me to cast doubt of the presence of Jesus.

So I do recognise Jesus as a prophet of sorts if that is the right word to use.

Chong

Also its probably worth noting, whenever I go to church lately I just dont feel that thing inside myself for the celebration of faith anymore.

UU

Hello Willem D!

I was in a very similiar situation to you a few years ago. Firstly, I didn't agree with the Catholic Church's views on homosexuality, contraception, abortion and other religions so I still wanted to remain Christian. I joined the Presbyterian Church for a while and still felt it wasn't for me. I'm a realist, quite scientific and a full-time free thinker so I couldn't accept most of the Bible as literal including Jesus as God (Allah) so I started looking into Judaism and Islam and found that they, especially the latter, believe in Jesus as a prophet. I finally joined the Unitarian Church which takes this view and I'm happy!

What I'm trying to say is that there are many different religions around for you to explore which take this view - Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Christian Science, Unitarian, Islam, liberal Quaker. You really just need to look into other faiths and question and challenge your own beliefs.

Good Luck!

Excelsior

There are a few very good Catholics here who I hope take you up on your issues. I am a reformed Catholic so you should know that I am offering my interpretation from "outside the fold".

You cannot be a Christian and believe that Jesus was a prophet. You cannot take communion in good faith if you do not pray to Jesus. Jesus can't have died for you if he was just a great man and he can't have reconciled you to God unless he was God.

I know that this advice has never actually been taken seriously on these boards by any Catholic but you should go talk to your Priest. He is the one who can help you best.

Nevyn

Our faith is ment to be challenged as we grow and change.
No matter what your religion or creed or spiritual path.
I like the way it is explained in the film 'Dogma', we group with a certain ammount of faith
and when we are young it is enough to fill us up but we grow
and it could be that our faith doesn't so we we feel the lack of it.
Your faith needs to grow, it could be that in reavaulating what you believe you
will end up discovering and exploring what you do believe is a lot different then you tought
and you will end up on a differnt path then the one you were on or that you will find your faith in it's current form renewed.

Finding some one with in your current faith to speak to about this would be a good start,
they should be able to disscuss it with you and point you at things to read, I would suggest starting with one of the priests in you parish and if
none of them are helpful or they are not of a thinking order I'd suggest tracking down a Jessuit.

blueshirt

any church that has Oblates of Mary Immaculate as part of it cannot be any good. please check out this link.

http://www.offalyhistory.com/content/reading_resources/books_articles/daingean_bourke.htm

BrianCalgary

Speaking to your priest would be a great start. one more step is to explore the claims of Christ. Answer the question of who He is and who He claimed to be.

Do this with an open heart and mind. Then take a peek at some other Christian churches. What kind of service would you like? If the liturgical worship of the mass is not for you and you'd like something a little more upbeat try possibly an evangelical church. Or even Penacostal.

I went church shopping myself before settling into the one I'm at now.

UU

Well, I think Willstev just needs to experience different religions and what Thaedydal said is right. Just say he decides to join the Church of Ireland and finds he's not far off he once was. The truth of the matter is that regardless of which Christian sect it is, they still believe that Jesus is the son of God, Saviour, Messiah, etc. with maybe a few minor differences.

Might I suggest reading up on different belief systems such as Buddhism, Judaism, Islam and perhaps Chinese philosophy - The Tao Tae Ching is amazing. It will give a well rounded mixture of beliefs to explore.

Good Luck!

Chong

I really do appreciate the advice, I think I need to explore more religions. I just personally see Jesus as more as a prophet than son of God, which is wrong in the Catholic Faith. I have had such a great faith up until recently, there is nothing that has occured in my life to make me feel like this. Although week in week out I sit in mass and I feel it doesn't talk to me anymore if know what I am getting at. We have two priests, the P.P is in the parish about 6 months, and his ability to give a homily based upon the Gospel is awful.

He spends 15 mins rambling about everything, as for the curate, he has been in the parish 4-5 years. His sermons each week have anger about them, it seems all time that he is preaching to the converted. One thing I despise is the way when people happen to come to the church for a family member's months mind, this results in a sermon trying to dig every which way at the ppl attending the mass specifically for the months mind. At this stage I have grown tired of these masses, I come out feeling no better than going in. There was a time I went into mass and felt good coming out. Generally from the procession of faith on , I generally just spend my time praying to God.

Now this lack of faith maybe attributed to the mass, I dont know but I will say any time I go to the Limerick Novena or the Fathers Church , I feel I come out a lot more invigorated with regard to the way mass is conducted. Overall it doesn't resolve my issues with communion and Jesus.

hairyheretic

Willstev wrote:

I really do appreciate the advice, I think I need to explore more religions.

Well, there seems to be a fair selection covered on boards, so you ought to be able to get at least the basics from the people around here.

Asiaprod

Thaedydal wrote:

I'd suggest tracking down a Jessuit.

Very good choice. The only group I have ever had any time for.

Banphrionsa

Willstev wrote:

Ok may be the title is incorrect but I couldnt come up with anything better. I have been raised a Catholic, and I must admit I have been a pretty dedicated one since my birth 22 years ago. Now over the past year I have questioned my belief in the catholic church, its not due to any sort of controversy that questions my belief. I go to mass every week without fail, but I feel I have more belief for God on the whole and dont really account for Jesus's work. As a result I haven't taken communion since Christmas. So basically my question is, am I part of the wrong religion, due to my lack of belief in Jesus.

Willem

Better placed in the Christianity forum/thread?

Chong

Sorry but what are u trying to say?

BrianCalgary

Banphrionsa wrote:

Better placed in the Christianity forum/thread?

We are in the Christianity forum.

smidgy

As a previously unaware but practising Catholic most of what you know of God up to this point in your life has come (whether directly or indirectly) from the Bible. All the moral laws and rules that you have learned that god holds important have come from it also. I would like to know if it is the Bible itself or the content of it that you question. If it is the bible itself that you object to then everything you know of God up to this point in your life is undermined - are you prepared to dump all that you know of God.
If it is the content of the bible then you may look at many different christian churches for their different perspectives on the content of the bible. The views on many issues vary widely between the christian churches but certain things are core , (like the believing of Jesus to be christ). Maybe you should look at other christian churches first before you take radical steps to diverge from christianity.

I feel I was in a similar position a few years back with regards to the idea of praying to Jesus. I did (like yourself) consider myself a christian but never really prayed directly to Jesus. I prayed to God (as Father son, and holy spirit in one). I am not sure but in the bible does Jesus say that prayer should be to God or to the Father? I was uncomfortable with the prospect of praying to Jesus directly to begin with. I questioned whether I was doing the right thing. After all when I read about Jesus, I read about a physical man who claimed to be more than just a man. I found it difficult to get past the physical appearance of Jesus as a man. But after this I thought to myself that though Jesus looked like a man to the world, should it have been his physical appearance defined what he was or did his spirit define him better. I concluded that the spirit defines what we are and what he was. Maybe the Father himself just looks like an older version of Jesus but who cares, its just the form he chooses to take. God is spirit and it is this spirit that we worship.

I think that Catholic/Christian faith will challenge you in many ways throughout your life and this can help our faith grow. We will confront issues that stop us in our tracks but this does not mean we should abandon ship and take off to the nearest religion shop to acquire a set of beliefs that sits more comfortably in our laps. I dont think it is a good idea to make decisions on our faith or beliefs when they are weak but instead we should do this when they are strong.

Your situation reminds me somewhat of the parable of the seeds. http://www.dltk-bible.com/seed_parable.htm

I dont think your current parish priest does the gospel justice. He is probably inadvertently extracting the life from it rather than breathing it into your being. From my own experience sometimes after hearing the gospel I walk out the church doors and see a different world. Mass without a vibrant gospel does not satisfy my spirit as I can see that it does not satisfy yours. Maybe you should try other Churches for a more enlightened gospel.

lowdenclear

May I suggest you have a wee look at this forum? I've been signed up there for just over a year now, and have found that it has been pretty good for answering any questions I have had about the faith. The only advice I can actually give is to not just pack it all in without looking into it first. Its good that you're questioning things -- I think it happens to the best of us! -- but don't let questioning it be an excuse to just pack it in because you don't agree with some stuff. Look at it, ask questions, see why the Church teaches what it does. Then make up your mind. If you look into it, you'll be able to make a more informed decision.

MeditationMom

Does it much matter whether we agree about whether Jesus was the son of God or not, when we do not know what we are talking about at all, when we speak of "God"?
Does it much matter what the Church has to say about Jesus or God, when "the Church", in most of our lives, is just the local parish and priest, and the bits and pieces we hear about the Pope, who often disagrees with the previous or next Pope?
Does it matter what we call ourselves? Catholic, Buddhist, Muslim?
Whatever, whomever, whichever inspires you, lifts your spirit, makes you a better person, makes you kinder, you have to follow without letting anyone tell you they know better for you, anyway. If you are not totally and deeply, deeply in love with Jesus, Buddha or whoever else, they are of no help to you to find union with God. ( I am assuming this is the goal? What is your goal, dream, idea of where religion is supposed to take you? Are "Union with God", "Self-realization", "Enlightenment", "Heaven"- good descriptions? )

Look deep within yourself for guidance, and also knowing, that lives there, in silence, as often as you can. (The kingdom of Heaven is within) You are made in God's image, which means if God is the Ocean, you are 90% salty water. You are like him, you can know him, you can feel, and be, the Oneness.
That's when Jesus said:"Me and my father are One" You are as much the son of God as Jesus, but Jesus knew it beyond any doubt and God was his whole being. That is his wish for us also and it is what he died for.
Are Catholics required to believe Jesus was the son of God, or the "only" son of God? -which would go against Jesus' own teachings, wouldn't it? Anybody know? Does it much matter? Even if it doesn't, I'd love to know.:)

MeditationMom

Does it much matter whether we agree about whether Jesus was the son of God or not, when we do not know what we are talking about at all, when we speak of "God"?
Does it much matter what the Church has to say about Jesus or God, when "the Church", in most of our lives, is just the local parish and priest, and the bits and pieces we hear about the Pope, who often disagrees with the previous or next Pope?
Does it matter what we call ourselves? Catholic, Buddhist, Muslim?
Whatever, whomever, whichever inspires you, lifts your spirit, makes you a better person, makes you kinder, you have to follow without letting anyone tell you they know better for you, anyway. If you are not totally and deeply, deeply in love with Jesus, Buddha or whoever else, they are of no help to you to find union with God. ( I am assuming this is the goal? What is your goal, dream, idea of where religion is supposed to take you? Are "Union with God", "Self-realization", "Enlightenment", "Heaven"- good descriptions? )

Look deep within yourself for guidance, and also knowing, that lives there, in silence, as often as you can. (The kingdom of Heaven is within) You are made in God's image, which means if God is the Ocean, you are 90% salty water. You are like him, you can know him, you can feel, and be, the Oneness.
That's when Jesus said:"Me and my father are One" You are as much the son of God as Jesus, but Jesus knew it beyond any doubt and God was his whole being. That is his wish for us also and it is what he died for.
Are Catholics required to believe Jesus was the son of God, or the "only" son of God? -which would go against Jesus' own teachings, wouldn't it? Anybody know? Does it much matter? Even if it doesn't, I'd love to know.:)

Excelsior

I don't know for certain the answers to any of the questions you've asked but I would love to offer my perspective on it

MeditationMom wrote:

Does it much matter whether we agree about whether Jesus was the son of God or not, when we do not know what we are talking about at all, when we speak of "God"?

Well think about it this way- if God can be actually known, as opposed to just theorised about, then knowing this actual God would matter a great deal. If God couldn't actually be known, then in a strict sense, all talk about God becomes meaningless.

MeditationMom wrote:

Does it much matter what the Church has to say about Jesus or God, when "the Church", in most of our lives, is just the local parish and priest, and the bits and pieces we hear about the Pope, who often disagrees with the previous or next Pope?

That is true for the few remaining old-school Catholics in Ireland but I don't think that is the case for the majority. Most people have a Bible and indeed a Koran and maybe the Hari Krishna's gave them a Bagghavad Gita some time too. We have movies and novels that deal with the big issues and most of us have touched on Philosophy if we went to university. These big questions are equal-opportunity and I think most Irish people view them that way.

For Christians, it is of crucial importance that they seek answers to their questions, that they wrestle honestly with issues of truth and that they examine the assumptions and prejudices they bring to the search. But they do this in community with other believers and with the Bible as the map.

MeditationMom wrote:

Does it matter what we call ourselves? Catholic, Buddhist, Muslim?

I think it probably matters to Buddhists in Tibet that Catholics wouldn't go around claiming that Jesus was the only Son of God and simultaneously call themselves Buddhists. I know for sure I couldn't go to Pakistan and declare that men and women were created equally and that they have equal opportunities as God intended and in the same paragraph declare myself Muslim. That would anger them greatly.

Names, labels, they can be restrictive and unfair but they are essential. We cannot conduct any conversation without a vocabulary. People who believe that there is no God and that Nirvana can be acheived through the noble path should be called Buddhists for shorthand since they follow the teachings of Buddha. People who believe that Jesus of Nazareth was the Christ should be called Christians and so on.

MeditationMom wrote:

Whatever, whomever, whichever inspires you, lifts your spirit, makes you a better person, makes you kinder, you have to follow without letting anyone tell you they know better for you, anyway. If you are not totally and deeply, deeply in love with Jesus, Buddha or whoever else, they are of no help to you to find union with God.

I don't think Buddha would appreciate you claiming to have fallen totally and deeply in love with him. The same is true for certain in the case of Mohammed. And Confucious. I do not intend to be derogatory to your search when I say that it is outside the realms of these major religions.

MeditationMom wrote:

( I am assuming this is the goal? What is your goal, dream, idea of where
religion is supposed to take you? Are "Union with God", "Self-realization", "Enlightenment", "Heaven"- good descriptions? )

I would describe my chief end as to worship God and enjoy his presence forever.

MeditationMom wrote:

That's when Jesus said:"Me and my father are One" You are as much the son of God as Jesus, but Jesus knew it beyond any doubt and God was his whole being. That is his wish for us also and it is what he died for.
Are Catholics required to believe Jesus was the son of God, or the "only" son of God? -which would go against Jesus' own teachings, wouldn't it? Anybody know? Does it much matter? Even if it doesn't, I'd love to know.:)

It wouldn't go against Jesus' teachings, I think. Jesus definitely did claim to be something other than everyone else. He never spoke as if me and you could achieve the union that he had with our Father. He did say that he was the way, the truth, the light. He said lots of things like this and when it all adds together it looks not like we are all sons and daughters of God like Jesus is, but rather that we can all be sons and daughters of God because of who Jesus is. That is a subtle and important difference and while I am not a Roman Catholic, I think that I am representing their views accurately there.