Possible Spoilers unless you've seen The Captains Hand episode

cyrusdvirus

Is it just me or has Apollo's rise through the ranks been nothing short of meteoric? I can understand his being made CAG after the attack. After all he was the senior ranking surviving pilot. That evidently comes with a default rank of Captain. Fair enough I says. Promoted to Major? Ok, I can buy it, just not too sure of the timeframe between the miniseries attack and the Captains Hand Episode. But promoted to commander of the Pegasus? Oh come on, that's a touch much! Surely there is someone who didn't side with el prez in the 'coup', who is senior in rank to Apollo, who'd be better qualified. Now I understand that there is the unbreakable rule of 'Cos the Scriptwriters said so' AND we are dealing with sci-fi, but that (the promotion to major and subsequent promotion to commander in a VERY short timeframe) is just plain unrealistic!

It'd be safe to assume that there was more than one officer holding the rank of Major between the 2 battlestars, otherwise the rank structure would be Admiral → Commander → Colonel → Captain → Lieutenant, and the Major rank was just invented and inserted between Colonel and Captain. If they were of major rank before the cylon attack, then they are more experienced and more qualified to take command.

_Kaiser_

Also won't look good politically, or to the already very insular Pegasus crew to have the Adama's in charge of both Battlestars.

Barry Aldwell

gatecrash wrote:

Is it just me or has Apollo's rise through the ranks been nothing short of meteoric? I can understand his being made CAG after the attack. After all he was the senior ranking surviving pilot. That evidently comes with a default rank of Captain. Fair enough I says. Promoted to Major? Ok, I can buy it, just not too sure of the timeframe between the miniseries attack and the Captains Hand Episode. But promoted to commander of the Pegasus? Oh come on, that's a touch much! Surely there is someone who didn't side with el prez in the 'coup', who is senior in rank to Apollo, who'd be better qualified. Now I understand that there is the unbreakable rule of 'Cos the Scriptwriters said so' AND we are dealing with sci-fi, but that (the promotion to major and subsequent promotion to commander in a VERY short timeframe) is just plain unrealistic!

It'd be safe to assume that there was more than one officer holding the rank of Major between the 2 battlestars, otherwise the rank structure would be Admiral → Commander → Colonel → Captain → Lieutenant, and the Major rank was just invented and inserted between Colonel and Captain. If they were of major rank before the cylon attack, then they are more experienced and more qualified to take command.

Apollo had recently been promoted to Captain at the time of the miniseries. He was promoted to Major after he was shot by Starbuck, so he could become XO of Pegasus temporarily. When Garner went off on his own (his line of "I'm getting my men" being the same as what Admiral Adama said to Cain when he scrambled Vipers against the Pegasus to get back the Chief and Helo, nice bit of contrast there) and fell into the cylon ambush, Apollo was the one who took command* and brought the Pegasus out in one piece. He was promoted to Commander and given command of Pegasus because he was the best man available for the job, and also because the legacy of Admiral Cain lives on in the Pegasus crew - Admiral Adama needs a CO that he can trust won't "Do a Garner" and wander off without permission. As it stood, Galactica and Pegasus were fairly short of officers, Apollo was most likely the only Major who was not already assigned to a permanent position (he was the only Major other than Doc Cottle on Galactica anyway, since Captain Kelly is third in command, after Tigh). It's worthy of note that in wartime fast promotions, and battlefield commissions (as in the case of Dee during the "missing year" in Lay Down Your Burdens Part 2) are required. Ripper (original Galactica CAG) was a Major, but Apollo did the job as a Captain, and a XO is usually a Colonel, but again, Apollo did the job on the Pegasus as a Major.

* I have seen posters comment on Apollo repeating "I have the conn" when he assumes command, and commenting on it as him being so shocked that he has to say it back to be sure - This isn't the case, he repeats it because he has to, whenever command is passed from one person to another it has to be absolutely clear who is in command, so they repeat it back. Yet another little point taken from naval procedures, that makes BSG feel so incredibly real.

cyrusdvirus

Barry Aldwell wrote:

Apollo had recently been promoted to Captain at the time of the miniseries. He was promoted to Major after he was shot by Starbuck, so he could become XO of Pegasus temporarily.

I thought that he went to Pegasus as acting CAG? If he was XO he seemed to spend a fair bit of time in the pilots briefing room. Starbuck was there as a training officer. (even though I'm not too sure how much training the pilots of a single Skip needed, surely they had proven competence by virtue of still being alive? Galactica was able to trawl the fleet for replacements, not so with Pegasus) and i hope you're not suggesting that he should get promoted everytime he gets shot!!

Barry Aldwell wrote:

When Garner went off on his own (his line of "I'm getting my men" being the same as what Admiral Adama said to Cain when he scrambled Vipers against the Pegasus to get back the Chief and Helo, nice bit of contrast there) and fell into the cylon ambush, Apollo was the one who took command* and brought the Pegasus out in one piece.

Apollo didn't so much take command as much as the C.O. ordered him to take the conn. Garner was still in command of the ship at that time.
I know that there is no mention of an X.O. aboard Pegasus, so your initial point about Apollo being there as X.O. is plausible, but I'm not sure.
Your take on the whole 'I have the conn' bit is spot on. Watch any interaction on the bridge of a warship in a movie (or read it in a book) and the order is always acknowledged verbally. It's to ensure that the order recipient understands.

Barry Aldwell wrote:

He was promoted to Commander and given command of Pegasus because he was the best man available for the job, and also because the legacy of Admiral Cain lives on in the Pegasus crew - Admiral Adama needs a CO that he can trust won't "Do a Garner" and wander off without permission. As it stood, Galactica and Pegasus were fairly short of officers, Apollo was most likely the only Major who was not already assigned to a permanent position

Is he not CAG of Galactica's Air Wing???

Barry Aldwell wrote:

(he was the only Major other than Doc Cottle on Galactica anyway, since Captain Kelly is third in command, after Tigh). It's worthy of note that in wartime fast promotions, and battlefield commissions (as in the case of Dee during the "missing year" in Lay Down Your Burdens Part 2) are required. Ripper (original Galactica CAG) was a Major, but Apollo did the job as a Captain, and a XO is usually a Colonel, but again, Apollo did the job on the Pegasus as a Major.

Filed Promotions and commissions, yep can get that. I just think that there would be someone better qualified to command the Pegasus. I'm not even gonna suggest Tigh.

amen

Field Promotions in times of War come quick and fast to those who survive and show inititive in times of battle in particular in moments of deperation (pegasus against 3 base stars)
General Custer got promoted from lowly lieutenant to General in the course of the American Civil War (5 years)

In Band of Brothers the lowly Lieutenant ended up as Lt Col by wars end after only 2 years

secret_squirrel

Its also worth mentioning that Adama promoted Garner (an engineer) because there was no-one suitable of Command Track available. This could also be the reason for there being no XO.

Presumably Apollo was the next most suitable/ranking Command track officer?

Its quite usual in a lot of military institutions to single out officers for command track quite early. Presumably Apollo already was singled out before the war.

Its also worth remembering that 3 of Pegasus' bridge crew died in quick succession.

Admiral Kane (Six)
The XO ( Gangster)
Officer killed by Sharon.

The last might be stretching it a bit.

Also the point of fast promotions in War is well made.

cyrusdvirus

amen wrote:

In Band of Brothers the lowly Lieutenant ended up as Lt Col by wars end after only 2 years

Like i said I've no issue with the Battlefield Commissions, just not too sure of your facts here.

The first C.O. of Easy Co. was Lieutenant David Sobel, promoted to Captain while still the 506th in Georgia.

The second C.O. was Lieutenant Thomas Meehan, who was killed in action during the D-Day landings. His plane was hit and crashed, killing all onboard.

The third C.O. was Lieutenant Richard Winters. He assumed command during the landings. He was promoted to Captain during the run up to Operation Market Garden, where he was also the 506th's X.O. He was promoted to Major after the heroics of the 101st Airborne during the Battle of the Bulge. he retired from the army as a Major, and was reactivated during the Korean War, but again retired, still a Major.

The fourth C.O. was Lieutenant Fred 'Moose' Heyliger. He was badly wounded in a friendly fire incident before leading his men into battle.

The fifth C.O. was Lieutenant Norman Dike. He was relieved of his command by Captain Ronald Spiers during the assault on the town of Foy.

The last C.O. of Easy was Captain Spiers. He led Easy Co. from the time of the Battle of the Bulge to the assault on the Eagles Nest and the end of the war. Spiers actually retired as a Lieutenant Colonel, in 1958, but ended the second World War as a Captain.

secret_squirrel wrote:

Presumably Apollo was the next most suitable/ranking Command track officer?

Its quite usual in a lot of military institutions to single out officers for command track quite early. Presumably Apollo already was singled out before the war.

Fair enough. I'm just playing devils advocate here.

secret_squirrel

gatecrash wrote:

Fair enough. I'm just playing devils advocate here.

Me too!

iguana

gatecrash wrote:

I thought that he went to Pegasus as acting CAG? If he was XO he seemed to spend a fair bit of time in the pilots briefing room. Starbuck was there as a training officer.

Starbuck was made Pegasus CAG by Admiral Cain and she retained that position after her death. Apollo was sent to the Pegasus in an unofficial XO capacity, in order to check up on the new commander as Adama had promoted him out of desperation, but wasn't sure about how he was handling it. He was also there to see how Starbuck was faring as she was cracking up and didn't have the respect of her crew.

After this episode Starbuck was returned to Galactica, but she retained her CAG status, just with a crew who didn't hate her (as much). I thought it was completly ridiculous in the previous episode that Starbuck and Apollo should both be on R&R at the same time as they were each CAG of a battlestar.

cyrusdvirus

iguana wrote:

Starbuck was made Pegasus CAG by Admiral Cain and she retained that position after her death. Apollo was sent to the Pegasus in an unofficial XO capacity, in order to check up on the new commander as Adama had promoted him out of desperation, but wasn't sure about how he was handling it. He was also there to see how Starbuck was faring as she was cracking up and didn't have the respect of her crew.

After this episode Starbuck was returned to Galactica, but she retained her CAG status, just with a crew who didn't hate her (as much). I thought it was completly ridiculous in the previous episode that Starbuck and Apollo should both be on R&R at the same time as they were each CAG of a battlestar.

So who was CAG aboard Galactica during Apollo's li'l sojourn on Pegasus?
And who is CAG on Pegasus now?

iguana

gatecrash wrote:

So who was CAG aboard Galactica during Apollo's li'l sojourn on Pegasus?
And who is CAG on Pegasus now?

They never really went into that afair.

cyrusdvirus

Well i still think it's a touch fast up the promotion ladder for Cdr Adama.

cyrusdvirus

Launching the cat firmly among the pigeons now, if Starbuck was transferred back to Galactica, then why is she briefing on Pegasus?

Barry Aldwell

gatecrash wrote:

Launching the cat firmly among the pigeons now, if Starbuck was transferred back to Galactica, then why is she briefing on Pegasus?

The briefing you're talking about (which is 2 episodes after The Captain's Hand, so watch for spoilers) was for a joint operation, both air wings were involved. Since Pegasus would have a larger air wing (having had its full compliment of spacecraft aboard when the war started) it makes sense to have it on Pegasus, fewer pilots would have to be ferried from one battlestar to the other.

cyrusdvirus

like i said, cat lob shot.
BUt genuine point coming up. When Boomer was brought into the breifing the pilots went septic. If it was a joint briefing then why did we not see any Galactica pilots?

secret_squirrel

Isnt racetrack in the raptor that missed the first jump a galactica pilot?

Barry Aldwell

gatecrash wrote:

like i said, cat lob shot.
BUt genuine point coming up. When Boomer was brought into the breifing the pilots went septic. If it was a joint briefing then why did we not see any Galactica pilots?

It was a Raptor only mission. The only established Raptor pilots/ECOs were Boomer (since dead and replaced with a new model), Crashdown (dead), Helo (he was there) and Racetrack (also there).

cyrusdvirus

Barry Aldwell wrote:

It was a Raptor only mission. The only established Raptor pilots/ECOs were Boomer (since dead and replaced with a new model), Crashdown (dead), Helo (he was there) and Racetrack (also there).

Fair enough.