Am I a fish?

patmac

Playing A $10 STT on PPP last night goes something like this:
I am BB have Q10H have about 3k blinds 30/60 Villian has about 2k makes it 200 for cards. Flop comes 6h Ah Ac, Villian bets 1200 I call, turn is 3h I bet max he calls show AQ river is 10(I think) I win. He goes ballistic calling me every name under the sun especially f cukin Fiiisssh etc. I have visions of him kicking the furniture, cats, dogs and whatever comes to mind. I didn't think I did a whole lot wrong did I?

ianmc38

patmac wrote:

Villian has about 2k makes it 200 for cards

What?

ArmaniJeanss

430 in pot at flop. You call 1200 with 2nd nut flush draw on a paired board.
Its fishier than Billingsgate Market on a red-fast day.

Iago

marginal call preflop, especially oop. Should have folded the flop bet, but hey you won

Doctor Fell

Regardsless of your play here, I never play with chat turned on anymore.
It's so fcuking annoying all the trash talk when anyone sucks out, or for any dubious plays.

patmac

That bad eh AJ? Whats your definition of a fish (not being smart but not to sure what is meant by the term?)

Doctor Fell

Just tell him u'll be around to screw his sister/mother later on....and that he's the real fish betting with 3 aces.

ArmaniJeanss

patmac wrote:

That bad eh AJ? Whats your definition of a fish (not being smart but not to sure what is meant by the term?)

Someone who will call bets when logically they should realise they are behind, and the pots odds being offered do not compensate them for being behind.

kippy

I dunno,
You took a risk-there were two aces out there - I suppose you would have been thinking that the chances of him having an ace are around the same or worse than the chances of another heart coming up.....
Some would call it fishy play and riding your luck-but again as I have said before I think there is a big element of luck in the game-it worked out for you this time but may not work out for you again.
EDIT: I myself would consider myself a fish and as such if I were me reading this I would take very little notice of what I actually say in the Poker forum.
Kippy

Culchie

ianmc38 wrote:

What?

lol, you Jackeens;) makes it 200 for cards = raises to 200 preflop

ollyk1

kippy wrote:

ld take very little notice of what I actually say in the Poker forum.

I thought I was the only one who did this?:D

JustMac

patmac wrote:

Playing A $10 STT on PPP last night goes something like this:
I am BB have Q10H have about 3k blinds 30/60 Villian has about 2k makes it 200 for cards. Flop comes 6h Ah Ac, Villian bets 1200 I call, turn is 3h I bet max he calls show AQ river is 10(I think) I win. He goes ballistic calling me every name under the sun especially f cukin Fiiisssh etc. I have visions of him kicking the furniture, cats, dogs and whatever comes to mind. I didn't think I did a whole lot wrong did I?

Basically Villian bet 1200 because he thought/knew he was ahead (Only hand beating would have been A6) but was afraid of anyone with the flush draw. By betting 1200 into a pot of 430 you were getting nothing close to the odds you needed to call the bet. If he had bet 200 or 300 then a call would have been more understandable from his point of view. Wouldn't worry about it but if you want to improve your game I would suggest understanding what you did wrong here and maybe reading a decent book on holdem.

patmac

kippy wrote:

I dunno,
You took a risk-there were two aces out there - I suppose you would have been thinking that the chances of him having an ace are around the same or worse than the chances of another heart coming up.....
Some would call it fishy play and riding your luck-but again as I have said before I think there is a big element of luck in the game-it worked out for you this time but may not work out for you again.
EDIT: I myself would consider myself a fish and as such if I were me reading this I would take very little notice of what I actually say in the Poker forum.
Kippy

lol that's like Mick Jagger when the president of Canada's wife was hanging out with him, he said he wouldn't like his wife hanging out with the likes of Mick Jagger.
AJ by definition I was definetly fishing, it was hard to resist though as I'd won the previous two (not fishing) and was on a roll.

brianmc

Poker sharks eat poker fish.

Calling his raise before the flop with QTs was a bad idea unless in special circumstances.

With the board paired a full house is possible so a flush may be no good.

Even if the flush was to be any good you only have a certain chance of hitting it.

His bet was very big in comparison to the size of the pot. For the chance that you have of hitting your flush the bet is too big. You should fold.

All of that said - on the other side of the coin - he should be happy that you called that size of bet with a flush draw. He should not be berating you for it. If he wants to berate something it should be random nature in which your card came through for you.

Edit: Eh... What everyone else said.

I'm sure all those posts weren't there when I started typing this answer up...

Gholimoli

your called a fish usually when you make a bad play and get lucky.
more so when you make a bad call and get lucky than when you actually make a bluff bet and then get lucky.
here you made a very bad call on the flop and got lucky and thats why you were called a fish.
villain makes a raise and you call with QTs.
this is not the best of calls here .unless you are a very good post flop player your best of let hands like this go esp when some one raises before you.

on the flop you have a Q high flush draw and the board has paird with As which means its very likely that even if you hit your flush you can still loose the hand to either a better flush or full house.
there is only 400 in the pot and villain makes a 1200 bet.
your calling 1200 to win 1600 thats odds of 3:4 .
the odds of you making the flush on the turn are 4:1 against.
as you can see its a very bad poposition here for you but you took it.
if you keep making calls like that you will deffo loos in the long run .
you were called a fish because villain assumed you didnt understand the above facts .

patmac

JustMac wrote:

Basically Villian bet 1200 because he thought/knew he was ahead (Only hand beating would have been A6) but was afraid of anyone with the flush draw. By betting 1200 into a pot of 430 you were getting nothing close to the odds you needed to call the bet. If he had bet 200 or 300 then a call would have been more understandable from his point of view. Wouldn't worry about it but if you want to improve your game I would suggest understanding what you did wrong here and maybe reading a decent book on holdem.

I obviously haven't got to that chapter yet (theory of poker). It would have been easy to work that one out but the whole pot odds thing is tough on line as you don't have a lot of time but I shall try and work harder to work them out I suppose it will be easier with practice.

brianmc

patmac wrote:

I obviously haven't got to that chapter yet (theory of poker). It would have been easy to work that one out but the whole pot odds thing is tough on line as you don't have a lot of time but I shall try and work harder to work them out I suppose it will be easier with practice.

Hint 1:

There are VERY few situations where it is correct to call a bet that is bigger than the pot when you have a draw.

Hint 2:

There are few situations where it is correct to call a bet that is equal to the pot when you have a draw.

Hint 3:

There are even fewer of these situations when you get to the turn.

JustMac

patmac wrote:

I obviously haven't got to that chapter yet (theory of poker). It would have been easy to work that one out but the whole pot odds thing is tough on line as you don't have a lot of time but I shall try and work harder to work them out I suppose it will be easier with practice.

Theory of Poker is a heavy enough read, interesting but heavy. I was the first poker book I read and one I must re-read now having been playing for a while. Would recommend Harrington On Holdem as has been recommended by several others here too. It does get a lot easier to work out odds and stuff when playing online, you don't have to be exact. If nothing else keep the hints by brianmc in mind.

charlesanto

VCbet has a very concise beginners guide, maybe 5 pages of text that is as useful as some full book publications. LINKey

patmac

Here is the hand it gets worse.
Apr 26 18:47:03] : Seat 1 : smd777 has $2,850
[Apr 26 18:47:03] : Seat 2 : jimjfalcon has $1,260
[Apr 26 18:47:03] : Seat 3 : mr bloggs has $3,700
[Apr 26 18:47:03] : Seat 4 : Goodfella01 has $1,330
[Apr 26 18:47:03] : Seat 5 : bigbenny has $2,720
[Apr 26 18:47:03] : Seat 7 : Fatbot has $1,640
[Apr 26 18:47:03] : Seat 8 : flynscutter has $4,500
[Apr 26 18:47:03] : Fatbot is the dealer.
[Apr 26 18:47:03] : flynscutter posted small blind.
[Apr 26 18:47:03] : smd777 posted big blind.
[Apr 26 18:47:03] : Game [28] started with 7 players.
[Apr 26 18:47:03] : Dealing Hole Cards.
[Apr 26 18:47:03] : Seat 8 : flynscutter has Qh Th
[Apr 26 18:47:11] : jimjfalcon called 100
[Apr 26 18:47:13] : mr bloggs folded.
[Apr 26 18:47:13] : Goodfella01 folded.
[Apr 26 18:47:15] : Stakes: 50/100 Current level: 3 Next level in: 8 min.
[Apr 26 18:47:16] : bigbenny called 100
[Apr 26 18:47:17] : Fatbot folded.
[Apr 26 18:47:20] : flynscutter called 50
[Apr 26 18:47:21] : smd777 checked.
[Apr 26 18:47:22] : Dealing flop.
[Apr 26 18:47:22] : Board cards [7h Ah As]
[Apr 26 18:47:26] : flynscutter checked.
[Apr 26 18:47:28] : smd777 checked.
[Apr 26 18:47:35] : Stakes: 50/100 Current level: 3 Next level in: 8 min.
[Apr 26 18:47:36] : jimjfalcon bet 400
[Apr 26 18:47:42] : bigbenny called 400 and raised 800
[Apr 26 18:47:46] : flynscutter called 1,200
[Apr 26 18:47:47] : smd777 folded.
[Apr 26 18:47:50] : jimjfalcon called 760 and is All-in
[Apr 26 18:47:51] : Dealing turn.
[Apr 26 18:47:51] : Board cards [7h Ah As 3h]
[Apr 26 18:47:55] : flynscutter bet 3,200 and is All-in
[Apr 26 18:47:56] : Stakes: 50/100 Current level: 3 Next level in: 7 min.
[Apr 26 18:47:58] : bigbenny called 1,420 and is All-in
[Apr 26 18:47:58] : Showdown!
[Apr 26 18:47:58] : Seat 8 : flynscutter has Qh Th
[Apr 26 18:48:00] : Seat 2 : jimjfalcon has 7c 6d
[Apr 26 18:48:00] : Seat 5 : bigbenny has Ac Jd
[Apr 26 18:48:00] : Seat 8 : flynscutter has Qh Th
[Apr 26 18:48:05] : Board cards [7h Ah As 3h Ks]
[Apr 26 18:48:05] : Seat 8 : flynscutter has Qh Th
[Apr 26 18:48:05] : flynscutter has Flush AQT73
[Apr 26 18:48:05] : Seat 5 : bigbenny has Ac Jd
[Apr 26 18:48:05] : bigbenny has 3 of a Kind: Aces
[Apr 26 18:48:05] : flynscutter wins 2,920 with Flush AQT73
[Apr 26 18:48:05] : Seat 5 : bigbenny has Ac Jd
[Apr 26 18:48:05] : bigbenny has 3 of a Kind: Aces
[Apr 26 18:48:05] : Seat 8 : flynscutter has Qh Th
[Apr 26 18:48:05] : flynscutter has Flush AQT73
[Apr 26 18:48:05] : Seat 2 : jimjfalcon has 7c 6d
[Apr 26 18:48:05] : jimjfalcon has Two Pair: Aces and 7s
[Apr 26 18:48:05] : flynscutter wins 3,880 with Flush AQT73

El Stuntman

ArmaniJeanss wrote:

430 in pot at flop. You call 1200 with 2nd nut flush draw on a paired board.
Its fishier than Billingsgate Market on a red-fast day.

excellent!

and true too.....:)