Recent seminar with Guru Liam

silatmarty

Hi, just wanted to use the forum to congratualte Guru Liam McDonald of hosting yet another excellent seminar in Kilrea. The thing I found most useful was the sensitivity drills. These simple exercises are such a good base to start any other move but sometimes these can quite easily be over looked.

The striking buah's were another fantastic part of the seminar. These hard attacking drills are clinically effective and the adaptability of them is very surprising.

Looking forward to the next seminar with Penedaker Sanders in Dublin at the end of May.

For anyone wanting to see some good silat mpegs and vid clips go to youtube.com and do a search. some good demos and some not to great ones to be fair.

anyway. see ya

marty

willy-john

Yes, I'd like to add to Marty's comments about how much I enjoyed this seminar in Kilrea.

The 8 hours hard training over the two days was definately worth the money (Which wasn't much). It was also good to meet with the other silat players from Dublin etc. and train with them.

We learned and practiced techniques aimed at tackling reallife attacks, as well as other skill to improve our silat.

Details of the next seminars are on the silateurope.com website, and I intend to go to as many as possible.

John McI.

Colm_OReilly

So you guys just joined this forum to both comment on a recent seminar? Okay.

Welcome onboard guys, I hope to get to know you through discussions and our regular boards.ie Cross Training meets.

Colm

breadmonkey

This is hilarious. I think it's time for the banning stick Colm!

ToddHammer

Yo.

Todd The Hammer Roberts says Guru Liam rocks. It was amazing a bat flew out of his arse and attacked a random passerby for looking at his 9 in a threatening way.

FEAR THE POWER OF MAGICKKKK

Cool

Todd

Unpossible

Come on guys we can at least allow the Silat people to have their say and talk about their art without being belittled right off the bat. They are not making wild statements, just commenting that they had a nice seminar.

Roper

Unpossible, you are correct. But That Toddhammer guy is unstoppable. I heard he has his chest waxed every week. EVERY WEEK!

Unpossible

Ouch every week? But those ads on TV say it should last for weeks.


Time to write a letter to Veet

ToddHammer

Yo Roper.

I find that waxing my chest makes the Hammer's single leg unstoppable.

Peace out,

Cool

Todd The HAmmer Roberts

Unpossible

:eek:



thats.....um....yeah ok.........


Time to bring my ice skates to my head again (damn mental images)

Colm_OReilly

Unpossible,

You honestly belief two new people joined this board to exclusively post a review on a recent seminar by Liam just before Liam posts an ad about the upcoming Silat Seminar with his trainer?

Hmmm, perhaps the mods leaving this thread active hasn't served it's purpose.

Shilling, as defined to me by Amz:

A shill is basically an advertiser who tries to ehm, "subtly" advertise a product/service etc. on a forum like boards, They'll generally be new users who sing the praises of product/service and advise others on the benefits of product/service. Generally you'll find other new users joining the thread to back up and confirm all of the original posters comments. However you'll usually find that the two, or however many users are the same person or people who work for product/service

Unpossible

Well I just saw that ad now, and yes I must admit it does look suspicious.

Still if I have no interest in something then I will simply ignore it (like I do with many BJJ threads).

Millionaire

Ah common lads be fair to the silat lads.

There is alot more people on here promoting
their own stuff too.

Colm_OReilly

Mill,

I'm all for self promotion, and I've no problem with people plugging their events/clubs on this forum (Hell, my very first post told people about my club) but when *new* members create an account just to praise a seminar it seems a little strange to me.

Colm

Quillo

Liam has posted event details on here before without anything "suspicious" being commented on. I've been to a couple of his seminars and they are very well attended. I don't imagine he has any need for shilling.

Roper

...and yet...
If I came on here, without ever posting before and posted this:
Everybody really enjoyed my class on Tuesday at K.O. MARTIAL ARTS, more information on which is available at www.ko-martialarts.com. We started out with some kickboxing pad work and then some sparring. Then the Brazilian Jiu Jitsu class came on and we did some escapes from cross-sides position. The training there is really great and I'm looking forward to doing more training there.Wouldn't you be a bit suspicious of a shill?

cavedave

Just had a check through the messages and noticed some odd occurrences.
1. Neither poster has used a spell checker
2. Both had started their posts with an exclamation then a ,

Hi, just

Yes, I'd

3. silat is not capitalised

There is no obvious poster to boards who has these writing characteristics. There are also some differences in the text styles so I wold not be sure these two pieces are written by the same person.
David

Valmont

If someone is, hypothetically speaking, 'shilling', what the fudge does it matter????

Chill out dudes, believe it or not, there is other martial arts besides BJJ.

Just give them the respect you would like them to give to you.

I didn't see any shilling accusations when it came to the 6 or 7 Ring of Truth threads???

:mad:

breadmonkey

Are you for real Dave?!

Anyone trying to pretend to be two different people would probably go out of their way to ensure both posts didn't have the same style.

breadmonkey

I pity anyone who can't see through this blatant shilling.

Roper

valmont,
Shilling kills forums. Pretty soon its full of people logging on just to advertise. Lets not forget it's an online community, the emphasis being on community, in that everybody pools in and has something to contribute. So the Ring of Truth threads are fine because they're in peoples real names and posted by regular members of the community who contribute to other threads.

How many new members does this forum get per week? 1? 2? If even. Suddenly TWO new members posting about the SAME seminar within a few hours of each other? It's either a planned promotion, or a shill. Either way it has nothing to contribute to the community as a whole.

cavedave

breadmonkey Are you for real Dave?!

Anyone trying to pretend to be two different people would probably go out of their way to ensure both posts didn't have the same style.

Anyone who has poor grammar connot pretend to be someone who has good grammar. Hence the "hi, " being significant. It is possible to pretend you are stupider then you are but not smarter, hence you look to see if two samples do the same stupid things.
There are also subtle things in writing that are very hard to deliberately fake. But this is not a good place for my Sherlock Holmes impression.
David

Dragan

Valmont wrote:

I didn't see any shilling accusations when it came to the 6 or 7 Ring of Truth threads???

:mad:

Maybe because the ROT threads are being carried and created by people who have been posted here for a long time and have continually contributed opinions and actions to the board and the scene.

TO be honest, i would have an issue with the ROT threads if they were done by someone like me, i.e not enough knowledge of the local scene and no one on the board having trained with me.

As it is, the guys doing so are experience and well known, and to be honest pretty kind for walking like me through it all!!!

silat liam

Jees guys
I can't believe how paranoid this forum is sometimes!! So when someone new writes from a Silat back ground all kind of remarks are made. Its the same person, its a shrill, its a compiracy, its a promotion .....

I wasnt going to answer this, but after the private mail I got from the moderator, who hadnt time to check out, (but found time to write remarks) I decided to reply.

1. The two people who wrote on the thread are students of Robert Scott in Ballymena co. Antrim, there actual names as Marty and John can actually be found on the website www.ballymenasilat.com along with photos of them, so for all the people thinking it was me or these were the same guy here is the proof....

2. I didnt know they were posting this message, they asked me at a seminar that I taught at would I mind if they join this forum and post message as they wanted to talk to other people who might be interested in Silat. They asked me what would they write on, I told them just write about something you know to get the ball rolling. They just wrote that they enjoy the seminar, something which many people on this forum have done about seminars, classes or fight they watch on dvd about their own styles thats all. I dont think they expected the response they got with some of the guys on this forum.

3. My thread about the advertisement of the seminar. This was a simply post, just to let people know this event was on. We have an open door policy and if anyone was interested they could attend. It was a simple courtsey post, which would harm no one. No one was been force to read or attend. There are students from all over Ireland, UK, France, Holland, Italy and today Germany and Portugal booking in, so I didnt need the forum to find people. I just thought it would be nice to offer people in the local area a chance to come along in case they didnt hear about it.

4. After all the things that been wrote by some members I was a bit surprise when the moderator Colm asked would I be interested in helping out by organising and hosting a Board training meeting. I have inform Colm that at the moment I have to much on my plate as I booked a number of seminars for the next few months, and between that and my classes and family life, I couldnt do that, but would help him as he local to me. If you still need help to organised this early in 2007 I will do my best to help get you going in the southside.

So I hope this answer all the conpirices that seem to threw up , but in all honesty some guys need to take a chill pill, they are other Martial arts out there beside BJJ / MMA and we should all get along. Just have everything all on a level playing field. Stop attacking every new poster who doesnt belong to BJJ / MMA.

Liam

cavedave

Fair points well made

1. The two people who wrote ..

Now they have a character reference can they be unbanned?

3. My thread about the advertisement of the seminar....

Everyone seems to have no problem with your thread. A problem arises of people just registering to "say they love the clean crisp taste of duff" and thats it, people who contribute to the board with advice slagging etc can point out events.

Colm_OReilly

I didn't delete the thread nor ban the users so I'm not sure what powers I have with this regard, maybe Amz can shed some light?

Michael O Leary

I think that a lot of people need to back off attacking Liam. He seems to have become a lot of people's whipping boy. Even if he was guilty of "shilling" or whatever it is called, it is not the worst thing that people have been guilty of on this forum.

As far as I know, this all started on the forum when Liam posted an article questioning the value of grappling on the street which I consider highly relevant to debate. On the basis of this attacks were made against his teacher which is a very ungentlemanly thing to do especially as martial artists we are supposed to respect teachers. This I feel has done more to stifle debate than weak allegations of shilling.

Colm, I have been told by another member in this forum that you and Liam have a bit of a "history". If so using your position as moderator to make innuendos about Liam or his students while welcoming them is an abuse of your position.

I have never met, talked to or had any communication with Liam but it seems that the treatment he receives here is just sheer bullying. Martial arts is supposed to make us better persons. The success of this forum should be based on how reflective it makes us regarding our training and not how busy or heated it gets. Its should not serve the same purpose as trash tv.

The irony is that the people attacking Liam are making him look good at the expense of their own dignity.

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

Unpossible

while I sympathise with Liams position and the two poster who started theis thread, I do think that if they wanted their first post to be a comment on how good liams seminars are then they should simply have posted their (glowing) recomendations in Liams thread advertising the seminar.

Now they have a character reference can they be unbanned?

It does seem like an honest mistake by the two posters.

they are other Martial arts out there beside BJJ / MMA and we should all get along

True but I think attitudes are changing here (or at least I hope they are). Still as I understand it MA schools have challenged and slandered each other for centuries.

Roper

Anyone who does even a cursory search of these forums will know that I have little time for Liam since he threatened me with legal action:D . But as he's engaged in debate on the boards and has posted stuff from time to time, if it were he who posted the seminar review, it would have been fair game.

The fact is the world is full of advertisements, and I think we'd all like to keep this board advetisement free. This smacked of an advertisement, so people responded in kind.

Yes there is more to life than BJJ and MMA. And the more people who come on this board the better, it's just a shame it seems to be mostly the BJJ and MMA guys who show up at the cross-training sessions.

How come the lads didn't make any effort to state their genuine case?

john_mci

Roper wrote:

How come the lads didn't make any effort to state their genuine case?

I (willy-john) was banned from the forums by the time I logged in the next day, so couldn't reply, or even access the forum.

As Liam mentioned , myself and Marty found out about the forums at the same time. I'd started reading other peoples threads and then on the day I saw Marty's I thought I'd agree with him, as my first thread.

Anyway, sorry if I upset anyone- we learn from our mistakes.
Hopefully I'll be able to start contributing to more threads in the future,
John.

cavedave

Colm, I have been told by another member in this forum that you and Liam have a bit of a "history".

Step away from the matches and put the petrol tank down...I'd guess this is a case of mistaken identity. Colm is very unlikely to have an internet fight with anyone, it'd be like having a fist fight with a glacier. ColumOK on the other hand would fight with his own nails. I'd guess you heard of various succesful trolling expeditions carried out by Colum but I could be wrong.
David

Dragan

Michael O Leary wrote:

As far as I know, this all started on the forum when Liam posted an article questioning the value of grappling on the street which I consider highly relevant to debate. On the basis of this attacks were made against his teacher which is a very ungentlemanly thing to do especially as martial artists we are supposed to respect teachers. This I feel has done more to stifle debate than weak allegations of shilling.

Now then, i have met and trained with Liam, and i think he knows i have good time for him so i figure he won't take anything that i have to say personally.

Liam's article was fine, but Liam did say some things and imply some things about other posters classes and styles which were a bit out of order and this caused a lot of grief on the board.
The reason Liam's teacher ( Willian Sanders ) got some grief is because a lot of the guys don't buy into the magickal aspect of things, such as having bats fly out of your mouth at your oppoenent etc. ( hey, they way i see it is if people can put there faith in Santa Claus, Jesus Christ and the great Kimura machine that is Ganesha and any other deity then they can believe what they want! ) Some of the guys thought this was a little over the top and let it be known, i suppose the same way as Liam had issues with training aspects of MMA and BJJ and let it be known.

Now then , i like Liam and think he's an alright guy, but i also think he was wrong to post what he posted, the same way as i have thought other people are wrong to post what they have posted in the past about all sorts of things.

I seem to recall to you once said to me ( i may be wrong and if so i apologise ) that you enjoy giving the "MMA guys" a hard time when you get a chance. It would seem that other people on the board feel this way too, so surely you are not suprised by this?

I'm just popping this up here to balance what you have posted Michael, as you seem to have just gone of an assumption instead of scanning back through some of the relevant threads.

breadmonkey

john_mci wrote:

Hopefully I'll be able to start contributing to more threads in the future,
John.

I wouldn't count on it John because when they find out you were willy-john, you'll be sitebanned again, mwhahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Colm_OReilly

Prima facae, it looked like shilling. Two users join, don't really give an intro about themselves, and their first post is one of complete praise. Immediately another thread opens up advertising another semniar.

Two mods independently thought the same thing.

Liam, our bad.

John, welcome aboard.

Colm

PS: All new users say hello, give a brief intro, it raises your credibility.

Michael O Leary

Dragan wrote:

I seem to recall to you once said to me ( i may be wrong and if so i apologise ) that you enjoy giving the "MMA guys" a hard time when you get a chance. It would seem that other people on the board feel this way too, so surely you are not suprised by this?

Hi Dragan,

I said something like that to you in a private message. I thought you would have the decency to keep it private.

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

silat liam

Liam, our bad.

Hi Colm
Can you tell me what you meant by this quote, as I'm confused by why you wrote this.

Thanks

Liam

columok

Colm is very unlikely to have an internet fight with anyone, it'd be like having a fist fight with a glacier. ColumOK on the other hand would fight with his own nails. I'd guess you heard of various succesful trolling expeditions carried out by Colum but I could be wrong.

No Dave it wasn't a case of mistaken identity but thanks for the slurring of MY character. Liam had been involved on some nuts arguments on Irmac before his rebirth into the boards.ie community.

Dragan

Michael O Leary wrote:

Hi Dragan,

I said something like that to you in a private message. I thought you would have the decency to keep it private.

Michael O'Leary
www.wingtsun-escrima.ie

To be honest Michael, when that PM is aimed to try and organise a controlled bullying session on the board for ANYONE's amusement people should know a lot better than to PM me about it.

Especially when they then want to accuse others of that.

Sorry Michael but i just can't abide that kind of thing.

Roper

Hi willy-john/johnmci

Forum rules are occasionally quite restrictive to prevent them being clogged up with subtle advertisements etc. You just fell foul of that, easy mistake to make.

Anyway, welcome to the world's most argumentative board and have fun. Why not open a thread saying hi and giving an intro into your training and MA interests and that might get us all started on the right foot this time!!

Cheers,
Barry

Cabelo

I'm not an MMA or BJJ man and I wholely endorse any belief in magick or mandinga...

I still reckon this is shilling.

I reckon time will tell, though I've not seen the number of posts on the new account raise above one yet.

Also, Michael, I disagree that the MMA lads bully the TMAers. I've seen you take very little flack for your dedication to your own art to be complaining about attitudes.

I myself do enjoy winding up the TMA people, but only because I'm very strictly a TMA lad only.

Anyway lads, as the saying goes: If you don't got the mandinga, don't go wearing a patua.

silat liam

Cabelo wrote:

...

I still reckon this is shilling.

I reckon time will tell, though I've not seen the number of posts on the new account raise above one yet.

.

Hi Cabelo
The reasons maybe that you havn't seen the number of post rise above one yet, is that the students were bar staight away, so unable to post anything more, so how could their post account arise over one???. Second point would be, why would they continued, by making a very simple mistake, they are lash, attacked, accussed and even yet a week later when everything explained they are still attacked.

I'm glad John came on to the forum to explain he was banned, but in all honesty, why would other silat students bothered, as over this simple post, in cause so much fury and response. It doesnt give much encouragement to other students in my clubs who do silat to come onto this forum, because they all afraid if they mention my name in any way or the style they do, they going to get lash.

Over the past few months I did my best to try and get some of the people I teach onto the forum, and now that I finally got a couple, it seems to be nothing but rows.

Finally I want to a apoligise to Martin and John for encouraging you to join this forum and receiving the flak you did. I will speak to both of you at end of month, but I appreciate you coming onto the board.

Liam

Roper

silat liam wrote:

I'm glad John came on to the forum to explain he was banned, but in all honesty, why would other silat students bothered, as over this simple post, in cause so much fury and response. It doesnt give much encouragement to other students in my clubs who do silat to come onto this forum, because they all afraid if they mention my name in any way or the style they do, they going to get lash.

Liam,
When people use your name on this forum they get "lash" because you have made a bad reputation for yourself by making homosexual insinuations about members and then attempting to use bullying tactics when proven wrong in several instances. (I'm referring to threatening me with legal action) Your behaviour has given a bad impression of Silat practitioners.

In hindsight, this is wrong, utterly wrong. As a person I always try to be fair so to allow the immature behaviour of one individual to spoil my impression of a group of people is generalisation at its worst.

I've nothing against Silat practitioners or the art itself, which I know little about, I've welcomed willy-john, or john mc (don't know his name) on to the boards here and I look forward to chatting with him and gaining insight into the art he trains in.

Yours,
Mr. Roper

Cabelo

Aye, John, I hope you understand our skepticism and don't take offence to a little bit of snap back.

Some members have had negative experiences with Liam.

I don't suppose you'd mind my asking what your opinions are on Silat?



Liam: I apologise if I have offended you. If you'd not be opposed I'd be interested in tagging along to the next Silat seminar. Wanna arrange special Boards.ie rates? I have some friends who might like to attend.

silat liam

Cabelo wrote:

Liam: I apologise if I have offended you. If you'd not be opposed I'd be interested in tagging along to the next Silat seminar. Wanna arrange special Boards.ie rates? I have some friends who might like to attend.

Hi Cabelo
Dont worry, its cool. I was just explaining. Sure you be more than welcome, have a look at the website, and if see one you interested in coming along, let me know and I sort you out a special rate for you and your friends, as a fellow board member and as a special welcome. Look forward to hooking up with you in the future.

Liam

silat liam

Hi Mr Roper
I'm very glad to hear that.
Liam

Amz

silat liam wrote:

Jees guys
I can't believe how paranoid this forum is sometimes!! So when someone new writes from a Silat back ground all kind of remarks are made. Its the same person, its a shrill, its a compiracy, its a promotion .....

Liam

Is a persecution complex a requirment to practice Silat?

I have no connection to MMA/BJJ/Silat or other. I got a report of shilling on this forum, and in my capacity as Category Moderator for Sport, I checked it out, it seemed like shilling based on the evidence that was there i.e. the two brand new posters posting on this thread praising the seminar etc.

I deleted the thread and banned the users from this forum, and this forum alone.

Upon Colm's request I undeleted the thread and explained my motivations for deleting it etc.

I did not site ban the two users, nor did I ask for them to be site banned. Colm knew this because I told him that I'd noticed they were site banned. If Colm wishes to ask an SMod. or an admin to unban them both I'm sure that can be arranged.

However for future reference it is against boards.ie rules to sign up a new account to get around a ban as one of the 2 posters did. Ordinarily this poster would be site banned again, but because I believe now he is genuine this account will be left.

If it was not shilling, I was genuinely mistaken and I apologise, but the evidence I was presented with initially suggested otherwise.

I hope this clears things up for you kids and if anyone has any further questions they can PM me.

Amz

Cabelo

Still no more posts... *notes*

john_mci

Cabelo wrote:

Aye, John, I hope you understand our skepticism and don't take offence to a little bit of snap back.

I don't suppose you'd mind my asking what your opinions are on Silat?

No problem.
I don't get much time to get to the forum, and as I've just signed up most of the time is spent reading through all the old threads to see whats being talked about.

I've been doing silat for about 5/6 years now, so obviously I enjoy it. The mixture of weapons and empty hand training gives plenty of variety, although the volume of things to train can sometimes be a bit daunting. I like the way that the techniques with weapons can be very similar to empty hand, so training at one improves the other.
Most nights at training are pretty tough, bruises on your bruises, but you feel better for it.
I've no experience of competition silat, other than what I've downloaded on the internet, but it looks fairly different to what we're training in.
Often we practice against more than one attacker, which keeps you on your toes especially as the other guys at the club don't line up to wait their turn to get a dig in.
Far back in the past I tried a little karate, and some judo, but I'm sticking to the silat now.
John

judomick

john_mci wrote:

No problem.
I've no experience of competition silat, other than what I've downloaded on the internet, but it looks fairly different to what we're training in.

Any links? would be interested to have a look thanks

silat liam

Hi Mick and John
Dont have any links at the moment, but will try to find one for you. Sport Silat is something we stay away from. I've seen it a few times and its not something I personally would be very keen to teach or promote. It has lots of silly rules and regulations and has develop into a light contact sport style. A few years back they were a more hardcore fight side, my first silat teacher (Jak) took part in. These fight were held in Penang and were full contact and sometimes with knives. The Government closed it down, and has put it weight now behind promoting this much weaker side to silat. Saying that it has become more popular with the younger age group as it now offer a chance to compete without getting hurt.

The 3 Teachers I've trained under to learn, have all taught a more combat attitude to the silat. One of the big things about Silat is that it covers many areas and styles can be very different from each other. Some styles of Silat are religions, other are dance, some are yoga, some are sport and some are combat driven. It all depends on the style and the mannerism of the teacher.
So if someone went to a silat class, and it wasnt what they were looking for, they could go to another club and see a completely different aspect that might be what they are looking for.

John has Robert told you, that Ger Gissen is travelling over from Holland to the seminar. This is his first time to Ireland, and he specialises in Kris fighting,
can you let the other guys in Ballymena know about it.

BLUNT

Hello my names Jason O Ceallaigh and I train and teach silat in Belfast ( from time to time,as I'm based in London training with my teacher full time ) If any one has been insulted by a Silat person.....I'm trully sorry but these thing's happen.Hopefully one day myself Dave Joyce,Aidan Cochrane,Frank Mc Conville and others will get together and do a seminar ( tryen for three years ) There will be a full time school in Belfast shortly......main school's will be from south east asia.Once again sorry to those who have been insulted or felt insulted by a Silat student / teacher.......................J