"Where Do We Go Now?" - Skate Doco

bigpoppa

Morning All,

Some of you may have seen this thread:-

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=203435

Well since then things have come a long way:-

http://www.warrior-films.com/wheredowegonow.html

Director Paul Madden and Warrior Films have come together to make the Documentary "Where Do We Go Now?"

You can find our new promo on the website. This includes segments from an interview with Clive Rowan plus a 35mm intro sequence featuring Brian Stack.

Please sign up to the mailing list to receive updates as we progress and launch our project.

moonboy

i was at the tony hawk yoke. and the squeez comp///
ive a squeez tshirt///
i was only a wee lad though///
how come no ones mentioned john garvey?
or paul crawford's sick ramp(in the other thread).
and by the way if i got enough footage, id seriously consider doing a "best of irish" video.

bigpoppa

I was at both the Tony Hawk demo and the Squeez comp too!

We have lots more stuff to include and thats only a taster!

I will add updates here as we move forward if people are interested.

fisheye

moonboy wrote:

i was at the tony hawk yoke. and the squeez comp///
ive a squeez tshirt///
i was only a wee lad though///
how come no ones mentioned john garvey?
or paul crawford's sick ramp(in the other thread).
and by the way if i got enough footage, id seriously consider doing a "best of irish" video.

Where do you think you'll get the footage from? No filmer will just give all their tapes from the past 10 years to you without any sort of proven track record in making good, rewatchable skate videos. And that John Garvey bloke, is that the same lad who's bald with glasses and hangs out with Wayne Burke and doesn't skate any more?

I found this response to the same documentary on another forum and I agree with this lad -

some random wrote:

That opening bit of "skating" is embarassing. Looks to me like it's done by a gang of lads who used to skate in 1992 and think it's a bankable idea to do a documentary now.

"Finally the documentary will include skating footage of Irish skating both old and new showing the talent in this country".

Like **** it will - one bloke was filming skating in Ireland from 1990 with all the best dudes and he's never put together anything, despite working in TV and film since he left school/college - there wasn't any videos made until 1998 and that wasn't by the fella in question. Good luck to them getting any footage as they blatantly don't have a clue, particularly when there's a wealth of talented skaters who can do tricks, unlike yer man.

The camera crew look like they know what they're doing...


a wasted opportunity.

moonboy

yeah thats garvey.
sorry i was tired at the time. and im tired now.
anyway ive got lots of sample vids under my belt.if i can ill put some up.
what i hoped was that someone might know ciaran o connor or one of the lads and talk to him about getting tapes in. and ive loadsa footage myself.

bigpoppa

Evening All,

Just thought I would put up a response to the comments:-

First of all this is a skate documentary and not a "Skate Video". This will be more "Rollin through the decades" than "Almost Round Three". This is about the history of skateboarding in Ireland. I want to document skating history from Clive's of Hill Street, first parks, comps and demos to today with new parks opening.

Footage wise we have some RTE Archive material plus permission to use footage from Powell and Perelta videos. More importantly we have got *tons* of photos and some videos from Roger (who has been *really* helpful) and have been offered more video from Shaggy (which is greatly appreciated). Since posting our brief promo I have had very good feedback from the likes of Wanye etc.

I think the other comments miss the point. The black and white footage is simply an intro sequence (opening credits) to the film. It simply shows the various old school spots from Dublin such as Central Bank, ESB and Central Bank. These are places which we all used to skate in the "old days".

That opening bit of "skating" is embarassing. Looks to me like it's done by a gang of lads who used to skate in 1992 and think it's a bankable idea to do a documentary now

I dont think it is embarrassing. I did used to skate in 92 and before that. Still do in fact. Also the idea that this is to make money is insulting to be honest. The skater is Brian Stack who still skates and skated "back in the day" too.

Like real skating this is not about who can do 360 flips down stairs.

>>footage as they blatantly don't have a clue, particularly when there's a wealth of talented skaters who can do tricks, unlike yer man.

Again missed the point.

Anyway other than the negative comments many thanks for all the positive feedback for a project I am funding myself and which I believe is being supported by the genuine skaters.

moonboy

do one thing...
get rid of moby..

subfreq

Well overdue for Ireland. The promo looked wicked.

Rolling Through The Decades was a brilliant film and had a huge impact on Skating in the UK. It would be so much easier to try and hook up with Irish pro skaters and just make a film of tricks. This looks like it will be a much broader project finally documenting an independent culture and how it has survived in Ireland.

Agree about Moby though. He is whack.

fisheye

bigpoppa wrote:

First of all this is a skate documentary and not a "Skate Video". This will be more "Rollin through the decades" than "Almost Round Three". This is about the history of skateboarding in Ireland. I want to document skating history from Clive's of Hill Street, first parks, comps and demos to today with new parks opening.

Footage wise we have some RTE Archive material plus permission to use footage from Powell and Perelta videos. More importantly we have got *tons* of photos and some videos from Roger (who has been *really* helpful) and have been offered more video from Shaggy (which is greatly appreciated). Since posting our brief promo I have had very good feedback from the likes of Wanye etc.

I think the other comments miss the point. The black and white footage is simply an intro sequence (opening credits) to the film. It simply shows the various old school spots from Dublin such as Central Bank, ESB and Central Bank. These are places which we all used to skate in the "old days".

That opening bit of "skating" is embarassing. Looks to me like it's done by a gang of lads who used to skate in 1992 and think it's a bankable idea to do a documentary now

I dont think it is embarrassing. I did used to skate in 92 and before that. Still do in fact. Also the idea that this is to make money is insulting to be honest. The skater is Brian Stack who still skates and skated "back in the day" too.

Like real skating this is not about who can do 360 flips down stairs.

>>footage as they blatantly don't have a clue, particularly when there's a wealth of talented skaters who can do tricks, unlike yer man.

Again missed the point.

Anyway other than the negative comments many thanks for all the positive feedback for a project I am funding myself and which I believe is being supported by the genuine skaters.

Less of the patronising tone mate - I've been skating for 16 years, I know my **** and I've been around the block quite a lot. I know the difference between a documentary and a skate video and I work in production, so I'm more than able to offer constructive criticism.

You've gone to the expense and hassle of shooting an intro on 35mm film, but still managed to make it look rubbish. All you've done is shoot a couple of clips at some old, RIP spots, nothing special - it doesn't tell anything about what this documentary is about. It's a guy in suit cruising about the city centre, that's all. Brian Stack might have been good back in the day, but that was 15 years ago and there are better, more relaxed skaters of the same age who'd do a better job. The camerawork is terrible - that image in my previous post speaks volumes - the skater is 6-7ft away from the cam, yet the cam is still at eye level and it looks rubbish, the jaunty angle you've had it shot at, the shakiness for the shots outside the Gaeity Theatre. Brutal. The 2 jump cuts of the 5050 180 out at the ESB steps is straight out the RTE school of editing.

You say you've not out to make a skate video, but you've still got to use the proper conventions from skate videos/mags regarding not cutting a trick halfway through, showing the 3 points of reference at all times (where the skater came from, where they are now at the peak/crucial point of the trick and where they're going) - you desperately need to watch more quality skate videos and read the likes of Kingpin and Sidewalk for more ideas on how you should be shooting your footage. If you skate, then you should know yourself just how badly mainstream camera operators and editors tend to depict skating purely by not having a trained eye.

What puzzles me is that you've got no track record of shooting skate footage which is a lot harder than you'd think - granted, it's cheaper to shoot on DV using a PD170 /VX2100/DVX100/FX1 and a death lens - but it's so easy to mess it up and turn gold into ****. The stronger and more considered footage you've got, the better your documentary will stand up. This is where all my problems with this production come from. You should have done some research and got hold of a few of the accomplished videographers to consult and/or direct that opening intro, but you blatantly didn't. You've got a laudable idea, but the execution of it is just so weak and half-assed, it's embarrassing.

You still haven't mentioned any names of any current or recent heads who can guide you in the right direction. Clive is an easy name to pull from the past, given that you'd remember him yourself, but what about the way he turned away from skating in the mid 90s to focus on rollerblading, kitesurfing, etc.? Skate City isn't a skateshop in my eyes - G1 and Ramp N Rail are and you need to interview these guys too, along with the skaters they sponsor.

You also need to go and analyze films like Dogtown and Riding Giants (both by Stacy Peralta) and see how they've created a dramatic story to tell through archive footage, interviews and whatnot. They're interesting not only for skaters and surfers, which is a given, but any random punter who'll leave it playing on the TV should they happen to be channel surfing and come across it.

Rolling through the decades was a good documentary, but not great - firstly it's almost 3 hours long and then the use of static stills/photos was weak as bejaysus and that really let the production values down in my eyes - check the film "The Kid Stays in the Picture" for a few ideas for fake 3D treatments of animated still images.

The thing is that I really like the idea of a probing documentary on Irish skating, but you need to take these into account -
- What's the story you're telling? What's the hook that will make us keep watching? Not just some 15 year old skaters whinging how they haven't got a concrete skatepark, but some sort of other angle on skating. Stuff like how it promotes social interaction, no racist/religious hate, that sort of thing. I've seen little kids pick up skating down around the IFSC plazas and that definitely keeps them out of trouble by not hanging about with the local idiots.

- Just because you've started this and it's an Irish project doesn't necessarily mean it's good. Irish skate videos have only been put together since 98 and recently, Collective, that Skatedublin.com project and What's the Point have raised the bar set by Hidden and Six Counties. It doesn't matter that it's a documentary about skating in Ireland over the past 20 years - the important thing is the right people are there to help you out and guide you. You get any/all of these guys to help you and you'll do well - they know what they're doing when it comes to shooting strong skate footage and have a ****load of quality archive tapes which you'd kill your granny to get your hands on.

- Where Rolling... succeeded was that it was done by a high profile, sponsored skater (Winstan Whitter had the cover of Rad in May 91 or so) who used his name and contacts within the industry to both pull strings and get favours to bring it all together. And he's been working in the TV industry for some years now. That's were I'm skeptical about your involvement - I don't know who you are, your track record or anything about you. Granted I'm just judging you on your short clip, which is lacking in so many aspects, it's just not funny.

bigpoppa

>>You've gone to the expense and hassle of shooting an intro on 35mm film, but still managed to make it look rubbish.
>>You've got a laudable idea, but the execution of it is just so weak and half-assed, it's embarrassing.

That is your opinion and you are in the minority based on the e-mails I have got.

I wouldnt judge this on purely the promo as this is a work in progress. I also find your comments about half assed etc very disrespectful, of course you can add your comments but this can be done in a certain way? I would not attack anyone in such a way without knowing them? I think for example the boarderco podcasts and skatedublin stuff are superb but they are very different to what I am trying to do. I also see from most of your other posts you have made that you are very negative in general.

>>I don't know who you are, your track record or anything about you. Granted I'm just judging you on your short clip, which is lacking in so many aspects, >>it's just not funny.

I think rather than respond to how you think I (and Paul the Director) should make the film I will say only this without getting into a continued argument on here.

I am making a film of which the promo is only an outline. The opening sequence is going to be only at the beginning and again it is not meant to reflect a proper skate video. The Clive interview section is supposed to give a general overview of what the doco will be about

As for my background I started skating in 1987. I skated Hill Street etc in Dublin and Clive's ramp in Glasnevin etc. I skated the comps at the Top Hat, went to the Squeez comp, skated most ramps in South Dublin (but not all) and know most of the heads from that period. Mostly I skated Dun Laoghaire where we had our own mini ramps for a few years in a mate's garden. I still skate street although I am getting older now and have less time than I would like. I will defo skate more now the new parks are opening. That said I dont feel the need to prove my creditentials to anyone.

Anyway look out for more footage from the film which should be completed in Summer.

Gunn4r

fisheye, what is your problem? Where in the name of jesus is all the hostility coming from?

Did you even read the reply to your initial rant? Who the **** are you? What have YOU done? THEY ARE NOT MAKING A REGULAR SKATE FILM. Read with your eyes.

Typical Irish response to slagging people off.

Would rather cut my eyes out than listen to the music on it but other than that fair ****in play.

but what about the way he turned away from skating in the mid 90s to focus on rollerblading, kitesurfing, etc.? Skate City isn't a skateshop in my eyes - G1 and Ramp N Rail

That pissed me off. Clive has a business to run and was probably trying to support his family? Did that ever occur to you?

Bastack

Should'nt we all be happy that people are trying to get skateboarding advertised in Ireland? Alot of you are very quick to slam other peoples hard work down.... Why dont you offer help instead, I was asked to help and I did. As it has been said it is a doco not a skate DVD... Now why dont you guys get out your footage, photo's etc and make this doco what you guys think it should be...................

Bastack

fisheye

Gunn4r wrote:

Did you even read the reply to your initial rant? Who the **** are you? What have YOU done? THEY ARE NOT MAKING A REGULAR SKATE FILM. Read with your eyes.

Typical Irish response to slagging people off.

Of course I know that it's a documentary, as I've stated in my own post. And show me where I am slagging them off - all the info and criticism, harsh as it may be, I've offered are constructive and made before the finished project is on sale/air/general release for the directors to take on board before it's a done deal. Nothing worse than being told by those around you what you should, could or would have done at the time. Fact of the matter is that all of this is coming from somebody who's not involved in this project and from the outside, I can see where they've gone wrong so far. Don't get me wrong though, it's a commendable workload and project and I do want to see something worthy when it's done but it needs a lot of work to get it right. I asked what the deal is with these guys as I've never skated with in the past 15 or 16 years in Dublin - I've never even heard of them - that's partly why I'm skeptical about how well this can turn out. I also don't understand why some of that footage of Brian Stack was shot/directed so badly by skaters portraying something they've been involved in for so long.

moonboy

i gotta say fisheye is making valid points.
and also from a film-makers/cinematographers POV i wasnt impressed with the opening sequence. coulda shot it on DV and it would have looked as good// it feels like little thought was put into the shots. the whole thing just seems very cliche. especially with moby. just my two cents.
also waynes boarderco podcasts are as "simple as" but knowingly so. theres not much to em but it doesnt matter, theyre just to show few tricks. so if you think theyre "superb", im not sure thats setting your standards too high.
anyway good luck with the rest. look forward to seeing it.
skate on and on.

skate4evr

Hey! Yeah, i think its an amazing idea! its so great, maybe it'll help put ireland a little more on the map for skateboarding! just maybe u shud try get a better skater to show off some of the better talent ireland has to offer! i like the interview with Clive but you shud try get an interview cuple with some guys from ramp n rail, thats the place where you wanna go! Great ideas tho! good luck with it