Middle east for your Hollyiers?

dubtom

Given the ongoing trouble in the middle east (30 killed in a bomb in an Egypt resort yesterday) and lots of other stuff over the last while, would you consider taking a Holiday in that region, Egypt,Israel, Turkey etc. I ask because since the start of the conflict in Iraq I would never dream of visiting any of those countries. Egypt advertise their country regularly on TV as a destination and I'm sure it's a beautifull place but it holds no attraction for me. I'm probably being paranoid and judging a whole region, but the Terrorists in that part of the world seem to take their buisness to a whole other level.
PS, Turkey probably shouldn't be included, it just seems fairly similar to me.

biko

dubtom wrote:

Egypt advertise their country regularly on TV as a destination and I'm sure it's a beautiful place but it holds no attraction for me.

I have been to Egypt and Israel (by myself) and had a great time. You need to be a somewhat experienced traveller but in all, keep your wits about you and you/ll be fine. I'd love to see Jordan, hear it's great.

Ruu_Old

When my friend went there on a package holiday, they all had security people with them most of the time. Must have been hired by the holiday crew or something. Be on the lookout but enjoy yourself.

Dizzyblabla

I'm off to Turkey in June, didn't think twice about booking it... and Egypt is definately on my 'to do' list....

Banphrionsa

Having travelled a bit, I will be the first to admit that going to a different culture can be fun. Have not gone to the Middle East yet, for a couple of reasons. The treatment of women is problematic, when compared to how I've been treated in the West. Second, I would not want to go there with my Western values intact and offend someone. Israel would be an exception.

Frank Grimes

You're tarring a huge area with the same brush.
I've been travelling since mid December (I'm in Malaysia at the moment), and from December to mid March I was in Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Turkey (very briefly) and Iran and had no problems at all.
That's not to say trouble is not going to happen at all. But once you keep yourself up to date on what's going on and stay away from the obviously dangerous places it's a great region to travel in, depending on what your interests are of course.

Mossy Monk

Dubai is supposed to be great fun. apparently it contains the worlds biggest indoor ski slope

spoofilyj

Went to Turkey a few years back, had a brilliant time but while we were there there a girl was raped down the street from us, The army came in and closed down the place where it happened and confiscated there furniture. They take their tourist Industry very seriously. Too be honest I would not go back till things cool but thats caus i'm a scardy cat... As with every where accidents and attacks are going to happen at some time and If we were to try to factor in everything that could happen I dont think anyone would want to get out of bed in the morning... Will never go to Israile though I have met a good few Israilees in my time and just cant stand them, they have a unique arrogance I find most annoying (again tarring everyone with the same brush sorry)

Zillah

If I was a bit older and had any money, I'd be straight off to the middle east for some amateur photography. In an instant.

Dave!

I wouldn't go, mainly cos the culture doesn't really appeal to me, but yeah also cos I don't think I'd feel safe in alot of places.

Macha

I wouldn't worry too much about going to these places. I lived in Saudi Arabia when I was younger for 5 years and nothing happened. My family travelled all over the region and drove in a camper van from Saudi through the Middle East up to Europe. Admittedly, my parents knew the region and the culture really well.

I know someone who lives in Tel Aviv, his company pays $1000 (about) / month in insurance for him so that if anything happens, he'll be on one of the first planes out of there. But he's been there 5 yrs & nada.

So I would definitely say go. Im guessing that statistically, you're more likely to die on the plane over

Binomate

What I wouldn't do for a week in Dubai.

LegacyUser

i was in sharm el sheik last year, about 2 weeks before it was bombed.

it was a tip, and the people were assholes.

my gf couldn't wear skirts without primative egyptian dudes hastling us, was asked constantly, is this your gf? wife? had to tell these sad ba$tards she was my wife, to get them to fcuk off, one knob jockey wanted to know how many camels i'd accept for her!

constantly trying to rip you off, varying prices depending on your skin colour.

i've been to poorer countries, ie thailand, and they were bang on and polite.

we met other couples who had to put up with the same $hit.

imo, these muppets don't deserve a tourist industry.

LegacyUser

double post

Dave!

On the news today, they were saying that the most recent bomb in Egypt was in a tourist resort, presumably because the scumbags who are carrying out the attacks don't want Westerners in their country.

dubtom

I'm surprised at the positive responces but personally I'd rather just stay away.
I suppose I judge the area a lot like Ireland was Judged during the troubles, you know, tourists wouldn't come here because of Nireland.

Villaricos

My uncle lives in the Middle East, in Bahrain and has done since 1983. I ve been out there several times goin over Christmas this year me thinks.
I would love to see more of the Middle East, sures its different but different isnt bad. Most of the muslim people Ive meet are great lovely people. My uncle has been all over the Middle East and feels perfectly safe living there. So sure if ya wanna see it dont let terrorism stop ya. wouldnt stop ya going to London, New York or Spain would it?

pork99

stp wrote:

my gf couldn't wear skirts without primative egyptian dudes hastling us, was asked constantly, is this your gf? wife? had to tell these sad ba$tards she was my wife, to get them to fcuk off, one knob jockey wanted to know how many camels i'd accept for her!

If you had haggled you could have got up to 30 litres of insecticide

I've heard completely the opposite from other people who have visited Egypt - very hospitable friendly people willing to invite you into their homes and feed you etc. Maybe if you get away from the touristy areas that's more likely.

muppetkiller

stp wrote:

i was in sharm el sheik last year, about 2 weeks before it was bombed.

it was a tip, and the people were assholes.

my gf couldn't wear skirts without primative egyptian dudes hastling us, was asked constantly, is this your gf? wife? had to tell these sad ba$tards she was my wife, to get them to fcuk off, one knob jockey wanted to know how many camels i'd accept for her!

constantly trying to rip you off, varying prices depending on your skin colour.

i've been to poorer countries, ie thailand, and they were bang on and polite.

we met other couples who had to put up with the same $hit.

imo, these muppets don't deserve a tourist industry.

Ya it's funny how they didn't all accept the fact that you are from a different culture and should have all worn western clothes and tarted up there women to make you feel at home... What a stupid pointless post.

Yet you're probably the same type of person who complains about the Muslim community trying to inforce their laws here.

Your in a country that is not your own and you must respect their values even if you don't agree with them.

Egypt is an amazing country with some of the most breathtaking sites in the world.. watching the sunset over the Pyramids is awe inspiring.

Macha

muppetkiller wrote:

Ya it's funny how they didn't all accept the fact that you are from a different culture and should have all worn western clothes and tarted up there women to make you feel at home... What a stupid pointless post.

Yet you're probably the same type of person who complains about the Muslim community trying to inforce their laws here.

Your in a country that is not your own and you must respect their values even if you don't agree with them.

Egypt is an amazing country with some of the most breathtaking sites in the world.. watching the sunset over the Pyramids is awe inspiring.

Look, you can abide by someone's culture without respecting it. My mother had to wear an abaya for the 5 years we lived in Saudi. She did it, but she hated every minute of it. She spent every penny she had on driving lessons and getting her driving licence in Dublin only to have to use a driver when we were there. She didn't get into a car & drive but she still hated it.

And don't start with that "well, you should have lived somewhere else" crap. We moved there for my father's job when there were none in Ireland.

You're right to be disgusted at their treatment of women, stp.

LegacyUser

pork99 wrote:

If you had haggled you could have got up to 30 litres of insecticide

I've heard completely the opposite from other people who have visited Egypt - very hospitable friendly people willing to invite you into their homes and feed you etc. Maybe if you get away from the touristy areas that's more likely.we climbed mount sini, the bedwins seemed ok.

other than sini, i can't speak for other parts of egypt, but sharm's a half built 5hithole, full of letcherous agressive fcukheads.

we met a few couples in sharm who had the same problem, and my sister was there too with a few mates and said they had to put up with the same 5hit, one of her mates had blonde hair and blue eyes, this particularly excited the simpletens.

pork99

muppetkiller wrote:

Yet you're probably the same type of person who complains about the Muslim community trying to inforce their laws here.

Your in a country that is not your own and you must respect their values even if you don't agree with them.

can anyone see the contradiction there?

muppetkiller

I totally agree with you that the treatment of women is shocking but it's still not my Country or my culture.

So just like we expect people to respect our western Culture when they come here we should do the same when we visit theres.

you should embrace the positives of the culture rather than mouthing off about the bad. (When you should know about the bad before you get there anyway)

muppetkiller

pork99 wrote:

can anyone see the contradiction there?

I think you misread my post ...
I was stating that STP was saying he didn't like the way he girlfriend was being treated (or women in general). which I accept as it wasn't pleasant.

but my point is (which i'm obviously not making very well) is that their culture doesn't agree with the way she was dressing so you may have been offending them.

same way we as Irish would not like if someone came here and started saying how evil we were having our women wearing short skirts etc...

They should respect our laaws and culture here
we should do the same there.
simple

sorry for my retarded replies the boards is really slow for me today and can't reply quick enough

Macha

muppetkiller wrote:

I totally agree with you that the treatment of women is shocking but it's still not my Country or my culture.

So just like we expect people to respect our western Culture when they come here we should do the same when we visit theres.

you should embrace the positives of the culture rather than mouthing off about the bad. (When you should know about the bad before you get there anyway)

Why ignore what's there? In one breath you criticise stp for "mouthing off about the bad" while at the same time arguing that he should be aware of the problem. If no one talks about it, who's going to know about it?

A balanced view is what is needed. Yes these places are beautiful and unique but be prepared for a culture shock.

And Im sorry, but the mistreatment of women is not ok, even if it's in the name of "culture" or "religion". And I do not respect a culture that views me as a second class citizen. Ill abide by it while Im there, but don't expect me to like it.

pork99

muppetkiller wrote:

So just like we expect people to respect our western Culture when they come here we should do the same when we visit theres.

you should embrace the positives of the culture rather than mouthing off about the bad.

And I have no problem with respecting the law & culture if I'm was in Saudi or Egypt. Don't agree with them but it's up to the people of those countries to change them.

But it cuts both ways. Thankfully we live in a country where your freedom of conscience and right to practise your religion are enshrined in the constitution and in legislation. We have our laws which are not Sharia law. Surely it's too much to expect that our laws are respected if you come to this country? And most Muslim do this - I think a lot of them appreciate the freedom they have here. Here's an example

Villaricos

taconnol wrote:

A balanced view is what is needed. Yes these places are beautiful and unique but be prepared for a culture shock.

And Im sorry, but the mistreatment of women is not ok, even if it's in the name of "culture" or "religion". And I do not respect a culture that views me as a second class citizen. Ill abide by it while Im there, but don't expect me to like it.

would have to agree here, its their culture and when in Rome and all that but I dont think their treatment of women is all that fantastic. Saudi is one of the stricter ones though. Non muslim women tend to be left alone in Bahrain.

Monty - the one and only

Moved to travel/holidays

pants on fire

Personally, aside from the threat and all that craic......I think Middle Eastern countries are just a crap place to go for Holidays. Especially in the arabic countries, the people are generally very ignorant and dont really give a ****e about you. Just your money.
I spent 3 years of my life in the middle east, so I know of which I speak!!

Be careful

adrian522

Having Travelled in the Middle East 3 times and been to Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Morocco and Iran I feel qualified to talk about "Arab" countries.

There is lot of S*** being talked on this thread.

Firstly you cant bracket all the middle east into one category and make sweeping statements about such diverse countries as Iran/Saudi Arabia on the one hand and places like Syria, Lebanon and Egypt on the other.

In many of these countries western clothes are the norm, no one bats an eyelid at jeans or skirts in Beirut or in parts of Syria, in other parts people are very conservative.

As to all the people who say The middle east is a crpa place for a holiday, i disagree completly, I think its a great place to holiday as there is so much to see and do and I will definitly go back.

As to what you wear when there I would always try to have some degree of respect for local culture espically while visiting Religious sites.

Another point I would like to make is that I think the locals are on the whole very helpfuul and friendly, although like any country there are idiots who try to rip tourists off.

To all those who say that arabs font deserve a tourist industry, perhaps you should take your racist views elsewhere.

~Also I have also felt very safe all over the middle east, and I dont think that there is anything you can do if you are caught in the wrong place at the wrong time, be that bali, Egypt, Madrid, London or New York. Certainly going around with armed guards wont help you if a bomb goes off in your restaurant.....

ferdi

my mate went jordan, apparently its amazing, perfectly safe.

Gaz

Im recently back from a few weeks backpacking around Iran and i had an amazing time, I found the country amazing and most of the people where incredibly friendly , to the point where they were paying for my dinner , or paying my entrance fee to a Mosque and in return all they wanted to do was have a chat in english.

Id love to go back and do more of the country ... plus its the cheapest place ive ever been and ive done a fair bit of travelling, food transport and accomadation cost me less than €200 for over 10 days ( i travelled there by train from London so that cost a bit and flew home via Dubai)

caracal

Oman is a wonderful country to visit in The Middle East. The sultan was educated in England and apparently loves nature and trees so the road sides are all lined with them. There is also a Catholic and Protestant church in Muscat which is sometime which is unheard of in Saudi Arabia, he considered it a gift to the westerns that work there. Western women do not have to wear the abaya ( but must dress respectly) can drive (those I don't know why anyone would want to their crazy drivers) and they are just the nicest people, ever. In the past muslims were world famous for there hospitality and they really uphold this tradition. Saudi Arabia is a horrible country especially for women. Western often get hassle by "the religous police".