References

danteXXI

I'm pretty unsure as to what the 'proper' procedure is for references.

Is it true you have to ask permission from an ex-employer if you can put them down as a reference?
Also, is it true that someone is not allowed to give you a bad reference.

Oh and, the folks at my last job told me they would not give me a reference becasue I did not complete the probationary period...how does that tie in with what I've already asked?

gerrycollins

danteXXI wrote:

I'm pretty unsure as to what the 'proper' procedure is for references.

Is it true you have to ask permission from an ex-employer if you can put them down as a reference?
Also, is it true that someone is not allowed to give you a bad reference.

Oh and, the folks at my last job told me they would not give me a reference becasue I did not complete the probationary period...how does that tie in with what I've already asked?

you dont have to ask permission to use someone as a refernece but it is good courtsey just so you know you can rely on them when it counts.
a bad reference does not offically exist,there are a number of questions that are asked such as timekeeping,attitude towards fellow staff and customers,appearance,attendance etc but the killer is "would you re-employ this person again", the ex employer cannot disgrace you by telling false stories or by slagging you to a prospective employer only answer the questions based on facts and the new employer then has to make up their own mind but be warned a "no" answer to the re-employ question usually seals your fate regardless of your history
Some companies just dont give references or are restrictive about them such as during probationary period but a quick explaination of this in your new interview will clear it up

Our man in Havana

A lot of places will only state that you worked there between date A and Date B and nothing more for fear of being sued.

danteXXI

I see.

Tanks gents.

seamus

danteXXI wrote:

Is it true you have to ask permission from an ex-employer if you can put them down as a reference?

As said, it's common courtesy. It also gives you a chance to see if the field has changed - will they be getting a reference off that manager who you were good mates with, or will HR have to do it because he left?

Also, is it true that someone is not allowed to give you a bad reference.

No, that's completely untrue. Companies tend to have a policy of shying away from anything which is opinion or which cannot be proven. This is because of defamation. However, if you received warnings about appearance/attitude/timekeeping, they are free to say that (because they can prove it). If an employer has nothing good to say about you, they'll usually just confirm the dates that you worked there, and your role. This is secret recruitment speak for, "He wasn't great".

Oh and, the folks at my last job told me they would not give me a reference becasue I did not complete the probationary period...how does that tie in with what I've already asked?

The company can decline to give a reference. If your next employer rings up, they're not obliged to say anything and they can say, "We decline to give a reference for this indiividual", which looks terrible to a prospective employer.

Benny-c

Written references are not worth the paper that thay are written on, in fact I have several that I wrote myself , just got some headed paper.

I'ts the discreet 'phone call between employers, therefore don't dirty your bib;)

Hope this helps.

Benny

danteXXI

Nice one Seamus.

So has anybpdy any handy but legal ways around this predicament?

seamus

Scratch them off your CV or be honest with a new employer. If you left within probation for a decent reason, then it gives you something to talk about in the interview.
Decent reasons are not:
1. I had a dispute with the employer
2. I got bored
3. Something better came up (unless you can justify it).

Decent reasons can be:
1. It just wasn't for me/The work was not what I had been given to expect
2. There was a change in my private life which made the work impossible

If you do choose that avenue, make sure that you know exactly why you left, and can justify it inside and out.

Litcagral

An acquaintance of mine recently applied for a position with a competitor and was accepted pending references. He was told by his present employer that if he left he would not get a reference.(He was an excellent employee and they did not want to lose him.)

The only consolation that I could give him was that the new company would be aware of the rivilarly between them and may show some understanding.

Can an employer legally refuse to give a reference to an employee because they are annoyed with him for gaining employment elsewhere?

Anyone any thoughts/ideas?

(Both companies are very well known)

Eoin

I thought that a lot of companies just don't give references. This is no reflection on the person, it's just their policy. I know it's the case in my company anyhow.

danteXXI, how long were you in the company before you left? If it was still within the probation period, it doesn't sound like a reference from them would mean anything. Do you not have a reference from the previous company?

leeroybrown

I have worked for a company who didn't give references as a matter of policy. Their HR policy was to say that X worked here between Y and Z and nothing else. Typically most people who needed a reference then bypassed HR and used their manager/supervisor directly. One particular guy I worked with for a short time had acted as a referee for a few of his friends despite not being in any way senior to them.

I think this kind of policy is counter productive. I asked a fairly senior guy to be my referee when I applied for jobs and he put it like this - "If anyone rings I'll tell them I have an important meeting and ring you to find out what you wamt me to tell them...".

seamus

Litcagral wrote:

Can an employer legally refuse to give a reference to an employee because they are annoyed with him for gaining employment elsewhere?

Yep. Employee files are in essence private to the company, so the company doesn't have to divulge who did or did not work there to anyone but Government Departments. By the same token, if you rang up AIB, for example, and asked "Can you tell me if Joe Bloggs works there?", they have every right to tell you to piss off.

danteXXI

seamus wrote:

Yep. Employee files are in essence private to the company,

That's understandalbe, but I wouldn't have thought the details given in a reference would fall under that bracket.

Seamus wrote:

Scratch them off your CV or be honest with a new employer.

The catch with my situation is that the experience from my last job will look good on a cv, that's why I want to keep it.
Also, I was actually dismissed during my probation, although not for a decent reason...which I would be happy to explain to a future employer.
Though the decent reasons you provided may still be usefull.

TheNog

Most large companies only give employment dates and position held on the references I have. However many managers I worked with did give personal references with glowing admiration. I did myself for some friends of mine when i was their supervisor. The odd time I was a first line manager, operations manager and site manager on one occasion (only the once and my friens got a job with more money than me!!!).

So many ways around it.

gaa247

Im applting for a part time job in a supermarket.Trouble is, the only reference i have is of my secondary school.I did work in another supermarket but that never worked out.I got pissed off a lot and didnt come in a few times.I left on bad terms without any actual formal quitting or sacked process.Would be a great reference but theres no hope they wud give me a good reference.Is one reference enough?

seamus

For a part-time job in a supermarket? Absolutely. Just don't mention the other place.

gaa247

just wonderin, does d whole college thing stand to ya wen ur lookin for part time jobs like workin in a supermarket?cos in my c.v. i just sold myself in terms of the whole college thing!

gerrycollins

gaa247 wrote:

just wonderin, does d whole college thing stand to ya wen ur lookin for part time jobs like workin in a supermarket?cos in my c.v. i just sold myself in terms of the whole college thing!

no