AK , tournament poker.

Tipperarymike

Any one got any thoughts on ak in a tournament situtation where a there has been a raise , reraise and reraise. For example, just played a tourney on full tilt. Guy in early position, chip leader raises, guy in the cut off reraises , I am on the button,with queens, i reraise, ok maybe that wasnt the best idea, not sure! Anyhow I was thinking I dont want letting the guys in front of me in cheap plus I dont mind taking the pot down there. Guy in the small blind goes all in , naturally he cant lay down his ak though he is fourth to enter the pot. Two folds, I decide to call, and you can guess the rest.

Now thing is how good can ak be in a pot where there has been so much action or am I way off in thinking I would be the only one to fold it in that situation.

I had just been moved to that table and my only read was that the ak guy was a fking idiot.

Hitman Actual

AK after a re-re-re-raise? Fold in a split second. The only scenario where I might get involved is in a mega-loose rebuy tournament where people are moving with crap early on, trying to accumulate chips.

MrPillowTalk

Thinly disguised bad beat post

Tipperarymike

I was going mad. They just cant seem to let it go online can they, surely its the worst most overplayed hand going. I dont ever have a problem laying it down but god online it seems that idea is in the slim minority

Tipperarymike

its all fine for you mr pillow, I see you are vegas bound, my hand happened in a qualifier, I didint mean it to sound like that. I dont care much for bad beats. But the way ak is played drives me nuts. So much so, i think i am going to end up sounding like hellmuth. Gl in vegas by the way

MrPillowTalk

only pulling your chain

Tipperarymike

Lol sure it could be worse, you do tend to see it all online alright. I think they ie the donks just wait all day for ak and then decide to go nuts on it

jimbling

Tipperarymike wrote:

surely its the worst most overplayed hand going.

QQ has my vote


What your saying is probably true, the donks have a lot of trouble letting go of AK... but the same can be said for any decent hand.

but on the hand in question. You say that your read on the sb is that he's a donk... fair enough, but you can't really say that what he did on this hand was wrong. He obviously did the right thing. He got the first too raisers to fold, and to be honest - your QQ should have been in the pile so quick it burnt the hand off you*. what were you expecting him to have. AA KK AK were the only likely hands here. so you were losing badly to 2 of them and 50/50 with the other.


*based on the assumption that his all in had some fold equity. But without stack / raise / pot sizes thats impossible to tell.

Tipperarymike

I am not too sensitive about my queens lol jimb. I suppose on reflection you have a point. The approx stacks at the time would have been about 14k 13k, the two in front of me I was about 10.5 or so. So my thinking in making, my donk, reraise was that i had a nice fold equity on them, considering that they had only 3x raised and min reraised respectively. Blinds were 200/400, I think. The ak guy had about 4k or so in chips. Now I suppose you could say, he saw the chance to really improve his stack so yeah I suppose you were right. My reraise had him all in so that negated any fold equity he had:D

And of course when I checked back on the qualifer, he had busted out within another twenty hands or so. One thing giving chips to someone who uses them another to this chap.

Anyway I think I am over it. The counselling and support on here helped!

Tipperarymike

I am not too sensitive about my queens lol jimb. I suppose on reflection you have a point. The approx stacks at the time would have been about 14k 13k, the two in front of me I was about 10.5 or so. So my thinking in making, my donk, reraise was that i had a nice fold equity on them, considering that they had only 3x raised and min reraised respectively. Blinds were 200/400, I think. The ak guy had about 4k or so in chips. Now I suppose you could say, he saw the chance to really improve his stack so yeah I suppose you were right. My reraise had him all in so that negated any fold equity he had:D

And of course when I checked back on the qualifer, he had busted out within another twenty hands or so. One thing giving chips to someone who uses them another to this chap.

Anyway I think I am over it. The counselling and support on here helped!

ntlbell

QQ is as over rated as AK imo

jacQues

lenny_leonard wrote:

AK after a re-re-re-raise? Fold in a split second. The only scenario where I might get involved is in a mega-loose rebuy tournament where people are moving with crap early on, trying to accumulate chips.

You're thinking cash game too much here. In a tournament, you want to play 95% of all premium hands when you get them. He had two options: fold or all-in. As simple as that. Calling would be the only wrong move, since that is asking for trouble (you want AK heads-up, every time, not to meantion exposing yourself to another person's all-in with someone to act behind you).

So, a premium hand, and the high probability of another premium hand out. Personally I would need to know player profiles and stack sizes to make up my mind and also whether they're suited or not.

Its probably a fold, though definitely not such an easy fold as you suggest. If its a loose tournaments, I'd go all-in for sure if they are suited. Just loose, no mega-loose required. In mega-loose, I'd fold since you are probably up against 66, 88 and TT four-way.

jacQues

Hectorjelly

jacQues wrote:

You're thinking cash game too much here. In a tournament, you want to play 95% of all premium hands when you get them. He had two options: fold or all-in. As simple as that. Calling would be the only wrong move, since that is asking for trouble (you want AK heads-up, every time, not to meantion exposing yourself to another person's all-in with someone to act behind you).

So, a premium hand, and the high probability of another premium hand out. Personally I would need to know player profiles and stack sizes to make up my mind and also whether they're suited or not.

Its probably a fold, though definitely not such an easy fold as you suggest. If its a loose tournaments, I'd go all-in for sure if they are suited. Just loose, no mega-loose required. In mega-loose, I'd fold since you are probably up against 66, 88 and TT four-way.

jacQues

But its a tournament and he had AK! He has the nutleys! ALL IN - He should probably fold AA here though

jimbling

Tipperarymike wrote:

I am not too sensitive about my queens lol jimb. I suppose on reflection you have a point. The approx stacks at the time would have been about 14k 13k, the two in front of me I was about 10.5 or so. So my thinking in making, my donk, reraise was that i had a nice fold equity on them, considering that they had only 3x raised and min reraised respectively. Blinds were 200/400, I think. The ak guy had about 4k or so in chips. Now I suppose you could say, he saw the chance to really improve his stack so yeah I suppose you were right. My reraise had him all in so that negated any fold equity he had:D

And of course when I checked back on the qualifer, he had busted out within another twenty hands or so. One thing giving chips to someone who uses them another to this chap.

Anyway I think I am over it. The counselling and support on here helped!

hmmmm..... okay,
he only had 4k.. the blinds are 200 / 400.... to be honest, Im probably all in here no matter what happens before me

you also say that your reraise had him all in, but in your first post you said that you called his all in... prob a typo, but thats what I was basing it on.


and perhaps he got busted out when his AA was cracked by 72o

jimbling

jacQues wrote:

I'd fold since you are probably up against 66, 88 and TT four-way.

I would have thought that thats a very good reason to call to be honest.

your shortstacked. you have two overcards to three underpairs. I would think its an excellent result if I called with AK and saw that.

jacQues

Hectorjelly wrote:

But its a tournament and he had AK! He has the nutleys! ALL IN - He should probably fold AA here though

You are right, what was I thinking writing that.

jacQues

jimbling wrote:

I would have thought that thats a very good reason to call to be honest.
your shortstacked. you have two overcards to three underpairs. I would think its an excellent result if I called with AK and saw that.

I didn't read the part about him being shortstacked. Those hands were just random examples for a mega-loose tourney. If shortstacked, I wouldn't mind that situation indeed. Very good odds to quadriple up and be back in the game.

jacQues

Hitman Actual

jacQues wrote:

You're thinking cash game too much here. In a tournament, you want to play 95% of all premium hands when you get them. He had two options: fold or all-in. As simple as that. Calling would be the only wrong move, since that is asking for trouble (you want AK heads-up, every time, not to meantion exposing yourself to another person's all-in with someone to act behind you).

So, a premium hand, and the high probability of another premium hand out. Personally I would need to know player profiles and stack sizes to make up my mind and also whether they're suited or not.



jacQues

In the tournaments I generally play, AK is definately not a premium hand after a re-re-reraise. Unless this is a table full of donkeys/maniacs raising with crap, he had one simple option: fold.

jacQues wrote:

Its probably a fold, though definitely not such an easy fold as you suggest. If its a loose tournaments, I'd go all-in for sure if they are suited. Just loose, no mega-loose required. In mega-loose, I'd fold since you are probably up against 66, 88 and TT four-way. jacQues

If you're up against three underpairs like that, then you have about 30% equity in a 3/1 pot. Has to be a call. And whats the big attraction with the AK being suited? It only adds about 2% equity to the hand. If you call with them suited, you might as well call with them unsuited.

And what difference does it make if it's a cash game or tournament.

Is there a huge difference in style of play in different parts of the country? Genuine question.

Edit: Just read the part about SB being short-stacked.