Smart Vision

bk

Has anyone got or have any experience of Smart Telecoms Smart Vision service?

Does anyone know how much just BB and phone would cost?

Or how much just TV would cost?

Smart Vision is their Fibre To The Premises service that is going into a lot of new apartment developments in Dublin.

They are offering:

- 2mb symmetrical BB.
- 70 channel digital TV (extra box cost €7.50 pm)
- €25 worth of "free calls"

all for "just" €100 per month.

It all seems over priced and under speced to me.

While 2m up is nice, just 2m down isn't very good. This is Fibre, you can get 5m from Eircom, 6m from Smart DSL, 6m/10m from NTL and even Magnet offer 8m symmetrical. They really need to improve this.

The digital TV doesn't seem to include Sky One or News or and Discovery network channels, ffs, this is far less then NTL digital and you don't get any analogue service for recording from or extra rooms. Extra boxes are €7.50 versus €5 for NTL.

The phone service only offers €25 worth of free calls.

This all seems rather over expensive. Here is a comparison with similar services:

NTL
- Analogue TV (17 channels in as many rooms as you like)
- Digital TV (120 channels)
- BB 2m
- Blueface unlimited local and national calls
Cost: €70

Magnet
- Digital TV (60 channels)
- BB 8m symmetrical
- Unlimited local and national calls
Cost: €69

I hate these micro monopolies. Smart should be using these FTTP projects to show what a really good coms company can do, not just replicating Eircom and ripping of people who have no other choice. We want better specs and lower prices.

paulm17781

BK your Magnet costs seem very low is this correct?

It is very dissapointing from Smart. Smart are one of the more forward thinking telecoms companies in the BB market. It is a shame to see when they have a monopoly they aren't that innovative at all.

Blaster99

While I have no problem with your assessment of the FTTH monopolies, it would be great if you could realise that NTL charges for analogue multi-room viewing.

Another thing, why use Blueface for the telephony? Use Broadtalk and you can knock off a further €15 from the price to spare yourself the landline bundle.

The last time I glanced at the Smart support forum, a lot of people were complaining about problems with the FTTH service and didn't seem to get much joy from Smart. Monopolies, whether from Smart or Eircom or whoever, should be illegal.

paulm17781

Blaster99 wrote:

While I have no problem with your assessment of the FTTH monopolies, it would be great if you could realise that NTL charges for analogue multi-room viewing.

I'd have no problem with your anti-NTL agenda other than he did include the analogue charge and they no longer charge for multi-room. :rolleyes:

Another thing, why use Blueface for the telephony? Use Broadtalk and you can knock off a further €15 from the price to spare yourself the landline bundle.

Firstly, using BK's figures it would be another €10 and I don't want to get into the argument of why I am happy with this package with you again.
Secondly, Blueface have excellent support and for this alone I would not drop them (unless the service became unusable).

Now let's not drift and keep to BK's original point.

Blaster99

paulm17781 wrote:

I'd have no problem with your anti-NTL agenda other than he did include the analogue charge and they no longer charge for multi-room. :rolleyes:

They charge me and everyone else I know. And it's on their web site. I'm sure it's possible there's a magic handshake or something, but when doing price comparisons it might be an idea to stick to the official pricing.

paulm17781 wrote:

Firstly, using BK's figures it would be another €10 and I don't want to get into the argument of why I am happy with this package with you again.

Sorry to burst the ego bubble, but when I write something on this forum I don't actually care what you do or think. I was just pointing out an additional saving for the NTL option.

paulm17781

Blaster99 wrote:

They charge me and everyone else I know. And it's on their web site. I'm sure it's possible there's a magic handshake or something, but when doing price comparisons it might be an idea to stick to the official pricing.

Even if you are being charged (you are the first person I have heard of who actually gets charged for this) it is still cheaper than a second Smart / Magnet box.

Blaster99 wrote:

Sorry to burst the ego bubble, but when I write something on this forum I don't actually care what you do or think. I was just pointing out an additional saving for the NTL option.

Ego bubble? Excellent reply, pure genius. I can see how me being happy with a package and not wanting to argue with you about it, again, is ego related. Could it be that I am tired of having the same discussion with you as you start every time someone mentions NTL & Blueface or could it be an ego factor. I'm sure you know best, you always seem to.

bk

Blaster99 wrote:

They charge me and everyone else I know. And it's on their web site. I'm sure it's possible there's a magic handshake or something, but when doing price comparisons it might be an idea to stick to the official pricing.

And as I've mentioned many times before, simply call them and tell them you aren't using the extra points any more and puff, the charge disappears.

Smart charge €7.50 for each extra digital point.

I use Blueface for this comparison as it is fairer, Smart do include €25 worth of free calls, so Unlimited local and national calls from Blueface would seem to be a better comparison.

Please stay on topic, this conversation is about Smart and their over priced and under speced triple play FTTP product and the awful situation we find ourselfs increasingly in with micro monopolies.

Every single new housing and apartment development I've looked at in Dublin (and I've looked at many over the last few weeks) has one of these micro monopolies, this really isn't good.

bk

paulm17781 wrote:

BK your Magnet costs seem very low is this correct?

Well that is what is advertised on the website, unless I'm missing something?

Blaster99

paulm17781 wrote:

Ego bubble? Excellent reply, pure genius. I can see how me being happy with a package and not wanting to argue with you about it, again, is ego related. Could it be that I am tired of having the same discussion with you as you start every time someone mentions NTL & Blueface or could it be an ego factor. I'm sure you know best, you always seem to.

I'll try this again for the last time: I don't care what you're using. I'm not arguing with you about your choices of provider. I was presenting an alternative to NTL + Blueface, indeed a cheaper alternative. Seeing as we were looking for the cheapest alternative.

bk wrote:

I use Blueface for this comparison as it is fairer, Smart do include €25 worth of free calls, so Unlimited local and national calls from Blueface would seem to be a better comparison.

Fair point but with a bit of thinking out of the box, it would seem to be possible to use Broadtalk for incoming and outgoing non-landline calls and use something like Voipcheap for free landline calls. You've then achieved the same thing as Blueface's €14.99 service for €0. But never mind, not a point worth labouring over in this thread.

bk wrote:

Every single new housing and apartment development I've looked at in Dublin (and I've looked at many over the last few weeks) has one of these micro monopolies, this really isn't good.

That's pretty remarkable. In most countries, FTTH means very fast and generally cheap broadband. Here it seems to mean slow and expensive broadband.

The likes of Magnet and Smart must be giving the developers an incentive to choose them over NTL?

paulm17781

bk wrote:

Well that is what is advertised on the website, unless I'm missing something?

I'm probably being egotistical again but I think Magnet add on a €24 line rental but leave until the small print to mention this. Not sure if they do on FTTH.

damien

Re: Magnet, is the €24 line rental charge just on their LLU service or on the fibre service? It isn't totally clear.

dub45

Blaster99 wrote:

While I have no problem with your assessment of the ................. Monopolies, whether from Smart or Eircom or whoever, should be illegal.

Has anyone queried the legality of these arrangements? Are you definitely tied in to the one supplier?

bk

dub45 wrote:

Has anyone queried the legality of these arrangements? Are you definitely tied in to the one supplier?

Legally I believe you have every right to get whatever service in that you like.

However the management companies certainly don't make it easy. They often specify in the contract that you can't get anyone else in, but I believe this isn't actually enforceable, unfortunately most people don't realise this and take it at face value.

Take a look at these posts, where someone has challenged the management company and the management company caved in and he can now get NTL in and put up a satellite dish:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showp...46&postcount=8 http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showp...6&postcount=11

Despite this, I still believe that something needs to be done to clarify the situation and specifically make it illegal for such wording to be put in contracts and to even legislate for carrier neutral ducting to be fitted to new developments.

damien

dub45 wrote:

Has anyone queried the legality of these arrangements? Are you definitely tied in to the one supplier?

eircom have made a formal complaint to ComReg or maybe the Competition Authority about a Smart only apartment complex.

Blaster99

Maybe I'm reading you wrong, but would another provider like NTL be interested in a single apartment installation?

The only management company that I'm involved in is run by the property owners. Similarly surely the management company of an apartment block in principle operates on behalf of the owners and should be interested in allowing competing providers?

colm_mcm

I have Smart Vision, and broadband on its own costs €50. I didn't get TV as their package is very patchy and their customer service is a joke.

The fact that I have to pay €50 instead of the normal €35 because my home is prewired to get only Smart Vision with no option to get NTL Chorus or Sky is the final nail in the coffin! and I live in Dublin!

paulm17781

Blaster99 wrote:

The only management company that I'm involved in is run by the property owners. Similarly surely the management company of an apartment block in principle operates on behalf of the owners and should be interested in allowing competing providers?

At the risk of being egotistical. You would have to persuade the management company why this should be done. Unless many of them are well informed about the benefits and actually living there, they probably wouldn't give a toss. The logic of "We have Smart" would apply and they would most likely see no reason why another company should be aloud in.

Also, if it is not too egotistical to say so, Smart most likely have a deal with the developers which is tied in with the lease. If memory serves, leases for apartment owners are normally 200 years.

dub45

paulm17781 wrote:

At the risk of being egotistical. You would have to persuade the management company why this should be done. Unless many of them are well informed about the benefits and actually living there, they probably wouldn't give a toss. The logic of "We have Smart" would apply and they would most likely see no reason why another company should be aloud in.

Also, if it is not too egotistical to say so, Smart most likely have a deal with the developers which is tied in with the lease. If memory serves, leases for apartment owners are normally 200 years.

So Smart (or whoever) are in situ before a management company is actually formed? (Asked in total ignorance of these things)

paulm17781

dub45 wrote:

So Smart (or whoever) are in situ before a management company is actually formed? (Asked in total ignorance of these things)

I'm only speculating but yes. It could be in the building deeds. I have no idea of the legallity or likely hood of this but I assume that Smart were given some guarantee of tenure. I would assume this is as long as the deed. Once all the deeds are taken, a management company is formed from the owners.

I hope this isn't too egotistical to have a knowledge of this.

Blaster99

paulm17781 wrote:

At the risk of being egotistical.

No, you've swapped egotistical for repetitive. I'm not sure it's an improvement.

paulm17781 wrote:

You would have to persuade the management company why this should be done. Unless many of them are well informed about the benefits and actually living there, they probably wouldn't give a toss. The logic of "We have Smart" would apply and they would most likely see no reason why another company should be aloud in.

If there's no cost for the people who don't care, it sounds like a no-brainer to me. Most people who bother showing up to meetings are usually fairly clued-in to the ways of the world.

paulm17781 wrote:

Also, if it is not too egotistical to say so, Smart most likely have a deal with the developers which is tied in with the lease. If memory serves, leases for apartment owners are normally 200 years.

So Smart or whoever has an exclusivity clause in the contract or something? If that's the case, you'd think the Management Company would be fighting it and not fighting people who want change. Perhaps the Management Company is typically run by the developers who have their own agenda? In the case where I'm a member of a Management Company, it was originally setup by the developers and it was very badly run. It's now run by owners volunteering their time and the fees halved and the amount of stuff that gets done has gone from zero to lots.

paulm17781

At the risk of my ego being mistaken and thinking that you are arguing rather than being realistic...

Have you ever been to a management meeting? All people care about is what benefits them. Generally this is rubbish being collected, grass being cut, windows being cleaned etc. If you can persuade people why getting other companies benefits them, especially if they are only investment properties, you have a chance otherwise they don't care.

I really hope a contrasting view isn't too egotistical.

Blaster99

Yes I've been to a few management meetings, but with mostly owner occupiers. One item on the agenda was a group discount from a local TV/sat installer. I would have thought most people can grasp cheaper TV. It may be different in rental hell, though.

paulm17781

Blaster99 wrote:

Yes I've been to a few management meetings, but with mostly owner occupiers. One item on the agenda was a group discount from a local TV/sat installer. I would have thought most people can grasp cheaper TV. It may be different in rental hell, though.

All investors care about is how their investment performs. They want tennants and resale value.

If BB is there well and good. If BB is FTTH better. I'm assuming that to be the case anyway.

colm_mcm

surely any home should be able to expect a proper phone line, or at least terrestrial TV without "rabbit ears" without paying €100 per month?

paulm17781

colm_mcm wrote:

surely any home should be able to expect a proper phone line, or at least terrestrial TV without "rabbit ears" without paying €100 per month?

But they have Fibre to the home so they have better than this. Problem is it is their only option and includes BB and phone.

colm_mcm

that's what I'm faced with. I don't particularly want to spend €1,200 a year for the rest of my life just to have 30 crap channels that don't work half the time, and equally patchy internet.

colm_mcm

that's what I'm faced with. I don't particularly want to spend €1,200 a year for the rest of my life just to have 30 crap channels that don't work half the time, and equally patchy internet.

colm_mcm

that's what I'm faced with. I don't particularly want to spend €1,200 a year for the rest of my life just to have 30 crap channels that don't work half the time, and equally patchy internet.