Anyone Else Worried the Interconnetor is to be Shelved?

Transport21 Fan

I am worried that the Interconnector maybe put on hold for years more, if not shelved completely.

Apparently there is a lot of concern in the PDs, that IE are up to the job, if they have in fact costed it correctly and more importantly will the interconnector still serve a meaningful function considering the Dublin Rail Plan has been greatly curtailed from the original scheme.

Looking at the some of the stuff happening recently if does make you wonder. The Navan line has been put on the long finger with some obvious diversionary/stalling tactic.

Makes you wonder.

Winters

IE are going out to tender again for consultants. Parsons Binkerhoff were employed on the prelim alignment study. It sure is a massive step up from their previous projects such as DART, KRP and DASH. Only time will tell though, the planning of the project isn't as advanced as some people would be led to believe.

Portal locations and station locations are fairly well known however the vertical and horizontals are still at desk top stage I believe. With the 'Docklands' station in place though the electrification of the rest of the network wouldn't be totally dependant on the interconnector.

If the Heuston drivers refuse to drive through the PPT how do you think they'll react to driving through the interconnector?

Its a massively vital piece of infrastructure and possibly the most important aspect of T21. Remember indeed that IE have not been asking for a lump sum for the project but rather a sliding increase in subvention up to the completion date. The business cases for the Luas and metro projects are very stingent and the DART is no different. The interconnector, properly managed, would definitely create a massive increase in patronage right across the network.

I would question the procedure of mining stations though. Understandably the stations are to be deeper than the metro stations but I dont believe the mining method has to be used at all 5 stations.

It'll be interesting as to how it is built, a 'Design Build' would obviously be the best bet. I cant see it going in house whatsoever. They'll have too much on their plate at that stage anyway.

Dont forget that it's in the current DCC Development Plan and was in the previous one too.

NavanJunction1

Transport21 Fan wrote:

I am worried that the Interconnector maybe put on hold for years more, if not shelved completely.

To be honest, I never really thought it was on the cards.

Not because of lack of merit, but because it isn't a political priority after the election.

Hence my stubborness over Broadstone. Sheriff St fine if there is going to be an interconnector, daft if there isn't when a Luas could be run to the front door of Broadstone.

Not consusing the issues but I don't think they really believe it will give them sufficient political return once the election is gone.

aliveandkicking

I question the construction figure of 1.3 billion. I think that sounds very cheap when you compare it to the Metro.

Winters

Both projects are completely different pricing structures therefore difficult to compare directly.

The metro will be designed, financed, built and maintained (DBFM) over 25 years by a private consortium. The RPA, maintaining control of the farebox, will then pay the private company a sum of money over that time effectively buying it back. Because of this the total cost is over a 25 year period with clauses etc thrown in and because of this is going to appear extraordinarily large.

(The operation of the metro will go out to separate tender)

The Interconnector will be paid for out of the current IE annual funding envelope plus added subvention. It'll be theirs from the day it opens with the bill covering design and construction costs.

That's the way it is now, could all change but I doubt it.

Of all the Dublin projects in T21 not only is the interconnector perhaps the most important but it is also the most vulnerable.

murphaph

I fear for it's completion into service too. For a start, IE simply aren't ambitious or hungry enough for it if you ask me. Recent pathetic cop-outs demonstrate this quite clearly, as does the lack of any intention to run Kildare services through an EXISTING tunnel to a (soon to be) EXISTING station!

Also, the unions are a big issue of course. Recent debacles wrt. the Cork trains show that much.

A change of government could also kill it stone dead. The RPA are actively hiring all over the place and metro is steamrolling ahead while the management in IE seem to just coast along. They were very relaxed when questioned about the 2015 opening date by P11 when all this was announced in November. Barry Kenny just shrugged his shoulders and said effectively "sure 2015 is fine". This is not nearly an ambitious enough attitude.

It again reinforces the theory that all CIE managers are just sitting it out until pension time!

Victor

Winters wrote:

If the Heuston drivers refuse to drive through the PPT how do you think they'll react to driving through the interconnector?

Has this been said out loud?

murphaph

Victor wrote:

Has this been said out loud?

No. It's not common knowledge, yet. I believe P11 will be highlighting the whole PPT/Sheriff St Station fiasco shortly. A worthwhile campaign if ever there was one. I heard a Connolly driver has to get a taxi over to Heuston to take freight trains through the tunnel to North Wall. Given the nonsense on the news today about the HSE doing something similar in Finglas, would anyone be surprised?

Victor

Was the taxi able to tow his loco?

I take it that all CIE group employees are allowed travel free on their services?

MarkoP11

The problem is actually is that only the most recently passed out Inchicore drivers are passed to drive through the tunnel (there are rules about how often a driver must drive a route to keep the require route knowledge), all trains through the tunnel are handled by Connolly drivers. Services have operated through the tunnel before in fact passengers travelled through every Sunday through the late 1990's. Its callled doing your homework, there is a grading issue we know about that. The truth is a lot simpler and it comes before you even think about the unions, it has to be actually possible and thats a lot more complex than the track being in place. There is a lot of illinformed comment on some issues the real factual, verifiable truth tells an interesting story

Funds for the interconnector project are ring fenced as are all T21 projects, compared to say Navan (also a 2015) a route and stations are already chosen. The alignment under Spencer Dock passses such that if you where to take a shovel and start digging on the Spencer Dock Luas platform you would hit the rail tunnel below. The tunnel infact has been redesigned and now goes underneath Inchicore surfacing at Le Fanu Rd which provides a massive improvement over the original design. Have a look at the KRP plans why does the datum starts at 7 km ? its not 7 km from Heuston

This is from an engineering propective the most ambitious project in T21 its real serious enginering on a scale larger than metro. Its quite simple unless you believe it won't happen

caster

MarkoP11 wrote:

The tunnel infact has been redesigned and now goes underneath Inchicore surfacing at Le Fanu Rd which provides a massive improvement over the original design. Have a look at the KRP plans why does the datum starts at 7 km ? its not 7 km from Heuston

Is the tunnel now planned to run way beyond Hueston or have I misunderstood? Also, what are the KRP plans?

MarkoP11

Originally the tunnel ran from Sherrif Street in Spencer Dock to the freight yard in Heuston (between platform 10 and platform 8). That required 4 tracks through Islandbridge and on through Inchicore which was deemed too messy. So the tunnel was extended to beyond Inchicore to somewhere roughly between Cherry Orchard and Inchicore, the Le Fanu Rd bridge being roughly the portal. This means trains from Hazelhatch will have a totally dedicated 2 tracks the whole way and will leave more capacity on the surface for intercity services

The KRP, Kildare Route Project was redesigned and the requirement for a third track from Inchicore to Le Fanu Rd was removed on the basis that it would have to be removed when the interconnector tunnel was built. What is really interesting is the datum on the plans for the KRP starts at 7km not 0km or 4km (roughly Heuston)

Victor

So how would the tunnel surface? In the centre of the tracks?

Do I have it right that the centre tracks are "slow" and the outside tracks are "fast"? That would mean at least one of the fast tracks would need a substantial deviation.

MarkoP11

All the details are buried in the documents submitted the to Kildare Route Project public inquiry

Initially the central tracks will be the local tracks. The plan appears to be that the new 2 tracks going in will later become the DART tracks and that the interconnector tunnel will be on the north side of the existing 2 two track starting somewhere in the vicinity of Le Fanu Rd.