VW Jetta, do you get it?

colm_mcm

Had a look at the new Jetta. looked alright, simple enough - it's a Golf with a boot and isn't a bad looker (in a sort of mini-passat kind of way)
Standard equipment is typicaly German. My main question is:

Why would you spend €24,500 (or €25,750 for a Comfortline) on a car that's based on a Golf, and has the crap 100 bhp 1.6, as opposed to the Passat's FSI 115 bhp unit.

Funnily enough, the Passat does 0-60 in 11.5, and the smaller Jetta takes 12.2

So anyway my point is, for €26,750 (€2,250 more) you can get a Passat, a far superior, bigger, better equipped, safer, and (slightly) more desirable car that will hold its money far better than the Jetta.

Thoughts?

$Leon$

i think you've just figured out why the jetta is selling so badly.
every place you look you see a new passat, not many jettas about.
vw hoped the jetta name and a new car would turn the bora around but doesn't look like its doing it

drdre

yes colm you are right.i seen one today and did not like a bit whereas the passat does look nice and spacious.

rabbitinlights

i just dont understand why they didnt just update the bora? They must know the kinda image the jetta had/has?

S>

FX Meister

What image is that? I'm sure they are aware it's the number one selling car in the States bought by gay men. Maybe they are cashing in on that

rabbitinlights

It was a farmers car.

Alun

colm_mcm wrote:

Had a look at the new Jetta. looked alright, simple enough - it's a Golf with a boot and isn't a bad looker (in a sort of mini-passat kind of way)
Standard equipment is typicaly German. My main question is:

Why would you spend €24,500 (or €25,750 for a Comfortline) on a car that's based on a Golf, and has the crap 100 bhp 1.6, as opposed to the Passat's FSI 115 bhp unit.

Funnily enough, the Passat does 0-60 in 11.5, and the smaller Jetta takes 12.2

So anyway my point is, for €26,750 (€2,250 more) you can get a Passat, a far superior, bigger, better equipped, safer, and (slightly) more desirable car that will hold its money far better than the Jetta.

Thoughts?

Well, you can get a 1.6 FSI Jetta as well (for €26,865), but you're right, the pricing is a little odd. On the other hand, not everyone wants or needs a car the size of the new Passat, I certainly don't, and I find even the older model a bit of a tank to be honest.

The Jetta/Bora here always suffered an image problem, probably due to it usually only being sold as a 1.4 baseline coinfiguration, but in other European countries it's a different matter. "Image" can be a very curious thing and vary hugely from country to country.

pburns

The Bora was kinda handsome (in a very conservative way). The new Jetta is a bit of a dog's dinner imo...

Elderly farmers/countryfolk for whom a 06 numberplate is more important than the car it's attached to. These people are not beneficiaries of the Celtic Tiger & 2-and-a-half grand is a lot to 'em.

A Jetta will impress the neighbours almost as much as a Passat. At least they're not selling it with the 1.4...

bazz26

VW's obsession with having to change names of their Golf with a boot seems to back fire every time as with the Vento and Bora before it. On the second hand market they don't seem to hold their value as the Golf does. Maybe that is why VW are afraid to call it just a Golf saloon.

Strange enough though the boot capacity of the new Jetta is actually larger than the Passat. The base model Jetta is also slightly better equipped than the base model Passat. The Jetta has electric windows front and back where as the Passat has front electric windows only. More important though is the fact that the base Jetta has that terrible 1.6 litre 8 valve engine.

Worth spending the extra money on the Passat with the 6 speed 1.6 FSi engine imo.

colm_mcm

bazz26 wrote:

More important though is the fact that the base Jetta has that terrible 1.6 litre 8 valve engine.

Worth spending the extra money on the Passat with the 6 speed 1.6 FSi engine imo.

As far as I know, the 1.6 in the Jetta is 16 valve, but is rubbish.

I think VW have really missed the point with the Jetta, it could have been a more youthful alternative to the Passat. instead it's a pink elephant.

Regarding the styling, I have a theory:

VW unveils the Phaeton, It has many technical innovations, and is well out of most peoples reach, they get "Mondeo man"'s attention. Phaeton doesn't really sell huge volumes, but image remains in peoples minds.

VW unveils the Passat, It's not particularly exceptional, but it looks a bit like a Phaeton, so people assume the same attention to detail applies.
They also forgive all the chrome and nastiness, because it reminds them of the Phaeton.

VW unveils the Jetta, It's a Golf with a boot, and it's not exactly original, but it looks a bit like a Passat, so that's ok.


Also re: name changes, it was always called the Jetta in the US, just over here they had to distance the new models from the old, in an attempt to finally become a 3 series rival (which it didn't)

Cyrus

in the states it outsells the golf, they just dont get hatchbacks

i dount they care if irish people do or dont buy it

bbability

Ah lads come on.. number one for gay men in the usa:eek:

That would explain why I have had only one phone call for my beautiful VW Bora with all the extra's in 6weeks!!
As for the new jetta its a bit too pricy for me...

colm_mcm

I see they've sold quite a few to rental companies. rather unusual for a brand new model. They can't be selling at all



By the way, this isn't the first time VW built a Jetta and tried to make it look like a mini Passat,

This is the 80's Jetta they sell in China with 90's Passat front end. Nice!

maidhc

Between the Passat at one end, and the Octavia at the other, it has no reason to exist.

bbability

maidhc wrote:

Between the Passat at one end, and the Octavia at the other, it has no reason to exist.

Well I'm gonna disagree with you here.
I have driven the new passat and its very impresive but just a little bit over priced.

I have also driven the Skoda Octavia. Road noise is unbelievable in the TDI.

As for my lovely Bora. 70miles and not a bother. Road noise is minimal. Power is great. and the boot is huge. Any farmers dream if you ask me:D

bbability

maidhc wrote:

Between the Passat at one end, and the Octavia at the other, it has no reason to exist.

Well I'm gonna disagree with you here.
I have driven the new passat and its very impresive but just a little bit over priced.

I have also driven the Skoda Octavia. Road noise is unbelievable in the TDI.

As for my lovely Bora. 70kmiles and not a bother. Road noise is minimal. Power is great. and the boot is huge. Any farmers dream if you ask me:D

bbability

maidhc wrote:

Between the Passat at one end, and the Octavia at the other, it has no reason to exist.

Well I'm gonna disagree with you here.
I have driven the new passat and its very impresive but just a little bit over priced.

I have also driven the Skoda Octavia. Road noise is unbelievable in the TDI.

As for my lovely Bora. 70kmiles and not a bother. Road noise is minimal. Power is great. and the boot is huge. Any farmers dream if you ask me:D

hawker

I don't expect the Jetta to hold it's value at all. What do you all think of the 1.6 Passat FSI - will that hold it's value?

colm_mcm

hawker wrote:

I don't expect the Jetta to hold it's value at all. What do you all think of the 1.6 Passat FSI - will that hold it's value?

It'll hold its value alright. god combination (for ireland anyway) of small engine and big car.

bazz26

colm_mcm wrote:

As far as I know, the 1.6 in the Jetta is 16 valve, but is rubbish.

Actually the entry level 1.6 litre in the Jetta is the old 102bhp 8 valve unit still found in the Golf, A3, A4, Octavia, Leon and Toledo. This engine originates back to the early 1990s. The other 1.6 that VW have available is the 1.6 115bhp FSi which is a 16 valve variable valve timing unit with direct fuel injection.

The 1.6 FSi is the entry level engine in the Passat as the old 8 valve unit would even be considered by VW to be totally useless in the heavier Passat.

colm_mcm

No way! how can people actually buy this heap of junk!


VW Jetta 1.6
102bhp @ 5,600 rpm
148Nm @ 3,800 rpm

VW Passat 1.6
115bhp @ 6,000 rpm
155Nm @ 4,000 rpm

FX Meister

bbability wrote:

Ah lads come on.. number one for gay men in the usa:eek:

That would explain why I have had only one phone call for my beautiful VW Bora with all the extra's in 6weeks!!
As for the new jetta its a bit too pricy for me...

+
Any details of it online?

colm_mcm

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alias no.9

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you need to use 98 octane super unleaded to achieve the stated performance figures for the FSi engines? Even if you ignore this, the figures...

colm_mcm wrote:

VW Jetta 1.6
102bhp @ 5,600 rpm
148Nm @ 3,800 rpm

VW Passat 1.6
115bhp @ 6,000 rpm
155Nm @ 4,000 rpm

don't really differentiate the cars very much, there's a little more top end on the passat, but how often do you use top end power in real life, how often do you rev to 6,000rpm, or even 5,600rpm for that matter. There's very little difference in the max torque which comes in at slightly sower RPM on the jetta. The 1.6 8v is well proven and just about any mechanic can look after it for you, hell DIY servicing should even be straightforward. The FSi on the other hand, you'll be taking it back to VW and leaving the equivalent of a monthly mortgage repayment each time it needs servicing.

You can look at the raw max bhp figures and shout about 115bhp being way better than 102bhp, you can shout about 0.7 seconds or 6% quicker 0-60, but my take on the 1.6 FSi is that a fool and his money are easily parted.

PaddyFagan

alias no.9 wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you need to use 98 octane super unleaded to achieve the stated performance figures for the FSi engines? Even if you ignore this, the figures...

I'm going to seriously disagree with you here, the key difference between the FSI and non-FSI engines is not at the top end, it's about the avilable power across the rev rangne. I've driven cars using the two different engines and the difference is huge. The FSI just feels so much easier to push-on, where as the non-FSI just feels slugish.

The petrol thing is a little more complex, yes you do need 98 octane to get the stated figures, but the top end figures aren't really the big difference between the two engines. (As an aside, on the continent you have to use 98 octane because the 95 has too high a sulpher content, but this is not the case here and in the UK).

Paddy

PS I have 1.6 FSI Golf Plus

IrishRover

Yeah, it's funny alright that the Jetta/Bora/Vento has been made redundant by the Golf getting bigger and it only being a little smaller than the Passat itself. It's true Irish people don't generally buy saloons/sedans when they can get a hatchback. Funny that it's the opposite in the US, and that it has a completely different image over there.

I've driven the 1.6FSI Golf and given it a good ragging in each of its six gears and not one of them felt like it was moving me forward. I just kept thinking if this is the fast model the lesser powered 1.6 must be a real dog. This on top of the claim in the handbook about the FSI engine being the "single biggest step forward in engine technology since fuel injection". Way to set my expectations high though!

Plus, I don't like the way the Golf handles, it's very twitchy at the back (it doesn't slide, just lift and bounce), from what I can see due to the rear wheels being so far back. Maybe the boot of the Jetta would counteract this.

maidhc

IrishRover wrote:

It's true Irish people don't generally buy saloons/sedans when they can get a hatchback.

I'd imagine we buy far saloons than they do over in the UK though. But having said that a hatchback is the handier of the two. I know the passat while it has a huge boot, the door is so narrow it is useless for anything other than shopping. You can forget about bringing home a new television on there unless you go flat panel.

Considering it outsold the mondeo, I do think though the Octaiva has cannabalised the Jetta. For the same money you get a hatch, as well as your choice of better spec and engines. Neither can the VW compete with cheaper cars like the Focus saloon.

colm_mcm

alias no.9 wrote:

You can look at the raw max bhp figures and shout about 115bhp being way better than 102bhp, you can shout about 0.7 seconds or 6% quicker 0-60, but my take on the 1.6 FSi is that a fool and his money are easily parted.

The comparison I made was between a Jetta 1.6 and a Passat 1.6 FSI, just to illustrate how pathetic the Jettas engine is. The heavier Passat is still quicker, and while I accept that the Passat has 6 speed, it still is pretty pathetic performance from the Jetta

And the FSI is standard on the Passat, so I'm not sure what you mean about a fool and his money