Making a Planning Application

godtabh

I've been asked by a friend to do a planning application for him.

What he wants to do is spilt up his existing land into to sites. One with an existing house and one with just land.

He wants to add an extension to the existing house and a new house on the other plot of land.

Now I've done many applications for work on a much larger scale but haven’t done any on such a small scale.

So I've a few questions:

1) As part of the planning application a site location map is needed. What will suffice for the planning application and where would I get it?

2) In your drawings you’re meant to show all existing boundaries and roads etc. Do you need to survey this or will approximate measurements do?

3) He has neighbors. Do there houses have to be in the planning application and if so to what detail? Again is a survey required for the neighbor’s property?

All I was gona do was elevation, plan, end view and a few cross sections with location map but after reading the drawings required it seems that there is a lot more required.

Any one got any information other than what is on the need would be very welcome.

Also was thinking of doing this as a nixer (before I realised it might not be that simple!). Has any one else done it as a nixer? Is there good money to be made?

MorningStar

1) You need a ISO map nothing else will be accepted. I think you need three of them and they cost about 5 each AFAIR. THe mAp office used to be in Ely place
2)No the drawings don't really need to show the boundaries that should be on the map
3) No


It is pretty easy to do yourself. Doing the drawings is the difficult part for most the application is not that difficult. Before you do a tap get the proper maps and some pictures and ask the local planning office how they feel about the idea. There might be no chance

godtabh

If its only the drawins I have to worry about I'll be fine.

As I've said I've done bigger ones just but I usually get all the infomration handed to me such as os maps surveys etc so I wasnt sure what was to be done in this situation.

I think the extension should be fine.

The new house the neighbours might not like. He is going to talk to them first.

MorningStar

kearnsr wrote:

As I've said I've done bigger ones just but I usually get all the infomration handed to me such as os maps surveys etc so I wasnt sure what was to be done in this situation.

LOL I knew ISO was wrong but I couldn't remember what it should be.

If you work in a office with people who do this stuff they are probably going to be able to give you the best info.

godtabh

MorningStar wrote:

LOL I knew ISO was wrong but I couldn't remember what it should be.

If you work in a office with people who do this stuff they are probably going to be able to give you the best info.

Didnt even notice the iso part.

Yeah I could ask people but I'm not sure if they would look on it kindly if I was doing engineering work out side of work. Conflict of interests and all of that

Dakeyras

To answer your questions direct

1 - As was said, an OS map is what you need. you can get them from the national map centre on Aungier street, you'll need 6 for an application (all original). around 50-60 for a planning pack, which is what ya ask for. Scale of 1:1000 for urban, 1:2500 for rural area.

2 - Its a good idea to show all adjacent houses & boundaires but this can be taken from the OS map which is usually relatively uptodate in most areas.

3 - If there houses are adjacent to his lands then yes. You'll also need a contextual elevation from the road showing the proposed dwelling in context of the adjacent dwellings/sites.

Now for some more unasked for babble. If the extension is less than 40sq.m (taken together with any previous extensions) then it may be exempt and not require planning.

The actual separation of the lands is a legal issue and not a planning matter. If applying for a house on a plot of land beside the existing you just outline the subject site in red and the additional lands owned in blue.

Depending on the site location and zoning it may be a good idea to
(a) check the zoning of the site and open space requirements etc.
(b) contact the planner for the area
(c) submit an outline application which doesnt require plans, elevations but just a site plan. a subsequent application must be made with the details.

as to can you make good money from it? in short yup, depending on how much you charge, how long it takes you and how much your time is worth. Theres also sometimes more involved depending on what you propose and the planner for the area.

anyways, hope that helps

smashey

A4 planning packs are available from The Map Store, Castlebar. Tel. 094 9023569. Cost is 51.13 Euro incl postage. They consist of 6 x 1:2500 maps and 1 x 1:10560 map.

Brando_ie

The site layout is very important in any application. Generally you are expected to show all features within a 50m offset from the site in question (which must be outlined in red and at a scale of not less than 1:500) but I have had a lot of applications where the subject site nearly fills the A1 @ 1:500 so the surroundings are far less than the 50m required but it has been accepted.

Generally I scan in the OS, trace of the surrounding after dropping into AutoCAD, add a bit of hatch and hedges where appropriate and bingo, there is your site layout (not to be confused with the site location map (which has been described in detail above).

Site layout need to have north point, red line to site and blue to landholding (which may need to be shown on the larger scale maps if extensive), site lines of approx 60 - 90m depending on speed limits on the road and measured 3m back from the edge of the existing road, site notice location (some councils require an additional single drawing indicating the site notice location (check with the councils), distances from proposed features to boundaries.

Generally I am less and less in favor of pre planning meetings as they are getting more bureaucratic and totally non committal in my locality but an outline permission is a great way of getting a speedy idea of if your plans are a runner.

Don't forget to show distances to any proposed septic tank and maintain the minimums, and get your percolation tests out of the way early in case you need to seek a treatment plant for inclusion in the permission.

The drawing package should be sufficient to clearly indicate the proposal (or amendments) and likewise the newspaper notice / site notice should be suitably detailed or the LA will just bounce it back.

smashey

Brando_ie wrote:

Generally I scan in the OS, trace of the surrounding after dropping into AutoCAD, add a bit of hatch and hedges where appropriate and bingo, there is your site layout (not to be confused with the site location map (which has been described in detail above).

Sounds like me.:D

Also, if there is a private access lane, then this should be highlighted in yellow.

muffler

Brando, you have probably put the chap off the idea now with all that info:D

2 questions- what are they like down your way in relation to submitting the maps - do they look for OS licence no.

Secondly in relation to development contributions, how do they calculate the floor area - excluding or including external walls.

godtabh

muffler wrote:

Brando, you have probably put the chap off the idea now with all that info:D

2 questions- what are they like down your way in relation to submitting the maps - do they look for OS licence no.

Secondly in relation to development contributions, how do they calculate the floor area - excluding or including external walls.

I've done it on a comerical basis so if that didnt put me off nothing will.

As regards os maps i think that OSI are very strict re licence no.

I dont have it in front of me but there are guidlines from all the county councils regarding development contributions and calcualting floor area. If your in doubt give them a call. Some times you can grab some one on the phone who knows what they are talking about. Dublin City Council a good in that regard. Kildare County Council are bad (based in NAss) so its all the luck of the draw.

muffler

I posted the 2 questions just to gauge requirements with other Councils. Im in the business myself and was wondering what Dublin Co. Co. ask for in relation to OS licence.

In Sligo you must give your licence no. with the planning application (or 6 pack OS maps) whereas in Donegal the licence no. is only advisory and will not invalidate the application if its not on the copied maps.

In relation to the development contribution scheme it would appear that a lot of the local authorities operate the scheme based on the floor area of the proposed development. I did a google search around 6 or 7 councils a few days ago and see that some of them include the external walls as part of the floor area whereas the others base it on the internal measurements.

Housing development is in 3 catagories in Donegal. Up to 160 m2, 161 - 200m2 and over 200m2. So if you were proposing to build a house for example that had a floor area of 199 m2 in Donegal the max. contribution would be €3600. That area would be calculated on an internal basis.

However if the floor area was deemed to include the external walls it would then leave that particular house over 200m2 and the contribution would be €5400 - a difference of €1800

Victor

Consider whether you want to make one application or two.

muffler wrote:

Secondly in relation to development contributions, how do they calculate the floor area - excluding or including external walls.

Its footprint area, i.e. to the external face. If you have an external covered area, e.g. porch, car port, etc. include that.

Brando_ie

Down my way (midlands) we just get a planning pack from the local mapstore which includes 6 original A4 (or A3 should you require) maps at either 1:1000 (urban) or 1:2500 (urban). The maps used to be stamped with a red north point stamp but recently the local store changed and have hologram decals plus the stamp (mate who used to scan and colour copy was raging!!).

The planning pack is completed with a rural place map @ 1:10560 which I always send with the application with the site marked (and often also use as my blue line landholding map where land is either extensive or spread out). You really need to get a steer from the LA you are submitting to as to what they require for the red and blue lines. All will look for a red line of the subject site on the maps but some want the blue on a separate map or combined or 6 copies or 1 copy??.... The three counties I usually submit in all have different requirements and if I had a Euro for every time Ive had a bounce because of the flippin blue line...... why I augha.... (one time I went to the LA district office, asked to speak to a planner for the blue line requirement, then borrowed their blue pen to outline and still the thing was invalidated because of the blue line!!!, Our office also had a permission invalidated because 6 copies of the map were sent outlined in blue and they only require 1.... like nobody could take out the additional 5..... sheesh)

Development contributions (TAX!!) in this neck of the woods are also area based with a few set thresholds (although I assumed it was internal floor space, basically taken from the permission form?) and will be outlined in full in the permission. They generally include a provision to allow for an increase if adopted assuming the development isn't started (or the levy paid) by the end of the current year. I've had a client get hit for over €15K on a large development because they delayed in starting.

Hey... information is good.... and I tend to ramble.... actually this reminds me of the time..... okay........ I'll stop now

muffler

Brando_ie wrote:

Our office also had a permission invalidated because 6 copies of the map were sent outlined in blue and they only require 1.... like nobody could take out the additional 5..... sheesh)

Christ that is the pits.

I remember submitting an application a few years ago and I overpaid (paid the full application fee instead of the fee for approval). It took 8 months to get a refund.

godtabh

Brando_ie wrote:

. You really need to get a steer from the LA you are submitting to as to what they require for the red and blue lines. All will look for a red line of the subject site on the maps but some want the blue on a separate map or combined or 6 copies or 1 copy??.... The three counties I usually submit in all have different requirements and if I had a Euro for every time Ive had a bounce because of the flippin blue line...... why I augha.... (one time I went to the LA district office, asked to speak to a planner for the blue line requirement, then borrowed their blue pen to outline and still the thing was invalidated because of the blue line!!!, Our office also had a permission invalidated because 6 copies of the map were sent outlined in blue and they only require 1.... like nobody could take out the additional 5..... sheesh)

I think this all changed now with the new planning laws which were introduced so that all planning applications were to be submitted on an equal basis