JJ in the SB

breadmonkey

UTG limps, CO limps, then it's folded around to me in the SB. This means nothing. They probably have two suited cards, one of them a K or Q, the other a card 6-T. I know that at least 1 player will call a raise of 3/4 BBs regardless and I will be left out in the cold OOP.

Stacks (very roughly)
UTG:1500
CO:2000
Me:3000
BB:2000

EDIT: Well spotted Walko! Blinds are a mere 30/60 (level 2)
What's the plan here?

Wallko

wat are the blinds?? kind of important!

RoundTower

Make it 300 to go. Bet 3/4 of the pot on any flop, and fold if raised.

breadmonkey

OK, that seems standard enough. As it turns out, I fired it all in because I was so angry at a sick beat I had just received at another table. I would be surprised if anyone can guess what the CO called with (or if anyone cares).

Ste05

84o

Culchie

I don't know if this an STT or MTT or the stakes/standard ...

But if an MTT, considering the small size of blinds, anyone like a smooth call here OOP, and make a few chips on a low flop ?

sunzz

Horrible play limping here culchie if he limps then the bb will also limp for value, 3 people against jacks is horrible horrible. flop of anything and you dont have a clue where you are.

Could come any draw any over cards, 2 pairs hitting etc etc

REGARDLESS of the flop people get married 2 pairs of face card. Raise it bet out on flop, if raised lay it down u have no info on the people playing.

Roundtowers suggestion is pefrect.

Im a say he called with AK.

Culchie

I dunno Sunzz, depends on read of opponents, but I'm not falling in love with JJ in the small blind here, and can let this hand go should it receive heat very easily.

So we go with the suggested raise to 300, 10% of our stack, 15-20% of any callers.

So we get say one caller (pot of 720), and an overcard (maybe 2) hits, a very probable scenario.... .... are we betting the flop... 3/4 pot, another 600? If we check and villian bets the flop representing the overcards, do we call? ....I don't like the hole we're digging here OOP

Just my thoughts

kpnuts

I agree with Culchie on this one, I don't like building pots with medium pairs OOP. Let's see a flop and take it from there.

Ste05

TBH I disagree with limping in this scenario, just because the blinds (although small) your stack just isn't deep enough to limp. If you limp you are basically playing it for set value or trying to win a small pot un.improved. If the stacks were deeper then I'd like the limp the odd time, but here I think the optimal play is to raise it up to 5/6BB's and take it from there. You don't have to make a continuation bet on the flop, but just see what the flop brings, what you think your opponent will do (if he missed or if he connected) and react accordingly.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with limping, (but then just play the hand the same way you would with 77 - 99, however with these stack sizes I'd raise about 75% of the time here, Villain players dependant.

Culchie

Ste05 wrote:

TBH I disagree with limping in this scenario, just because the blinds (although small) your stack just isn't deep enough to limp. If you limp you are basically playing it for set value or trying to win a small pot un.improved. If the stacks were deeper then I'd like the limp the odd time, but here I think the optimal play is to raise it up to 5/6BB's and take it from there. You don't have to make a continuation bet on the flop, but just see what the flop brings, what you think your opponent will do (if he missed or if he connected) and react accordingly.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with limping, (but then just play the hand the same way you would with 77 - 99, however with these stack sizes I'd raise about 75% of the time here, Villain players dependant.

Just me being stubborn, but I prefer the limp so much more than the raise.

Ste05

Culchie wrote:

Just me being stubborn, but I prefer the limp so much more than the raise.

LOL, Culchie you stubborn mule,:p I thought you felt quite strongly about it alright. Limp away my good man ... I'll go down in a blaze of chips shouting and cursing when K5o beats my JJ :mad: (he'll still call all the way to the river until he hits his miracle card you know :rolleyes: ), while Mr. Culchie, et al, plays it safe and survives... to pick up a nice money finish.

Bp!

Culchie wrote:

Just me being stubborn, but I prefer the limp so much more than the raise.

I tend to agree with Culchie here, these blinds are so low theres not a huge need to build the pot OOP. if the blinds were 50/100 or esp 100/200 i think it has to be played much more aggressive but with only 30/60 blinds im happy to play the hand as if i have nothing

Roundtower just out of interest how would you play AQ in this position at these blinds?

Norwich Fan Rob

not sure about JJ but id defo limp AQ in this scenario with those blinds.
JJ i could limp, i could raise.

RoundTower

Bp! wrote:

I tend to agree with Culchie here, these blinds are so low theres not a huge need to build the pot OOP. if the blinds were 50/100 or esp 100/200 i think it has to be played much more aggressive but with only 30/60 blinds im happy to play the hand as if i have nothing

Roundtower just out of interest how would you play AQ in this position at these blinds?

I would limp AQo here. Might raise AQs and would almost always raise AK.

Hectorjelly

Raise Raise Raise Raise - u have a monster. Overpairs are great. Pushing preflop is better than limping

brianmc

Hectorjelly wrote:

Raise Raise Raise Raise - u have a monster. Overpairs are great. Pushing preflop is better than limping

I'd like to see this discussed on a stage "hustings" style. Culchie versus HectorJelly.

It'd be interesting for the content too - not just the entertainment value of a good row.

breadmonkey

Sorry for the bump, my interent connection has been down for the last few days.

CO called with Kh2h if anyone cares. Figure that one out!

Hectorjelly

flat calling JJ here is AWFUL - 4 handed and you have a premium hand. Raising 99 here would be marginal, but limping JJ gives up a tonne of equity. The arguments for limping are basically that at some point you might have to play poker.