Barrel threading

sakofan

All,

I am thinking of fitting a moderator to a CZ .223 rifle that is not factory threaded. Can anyone recommend a gunshop/gunsmith to perform the threading. Anyone use the reflex over-barrel moderators? What are they like?
I seem to remember an ad for a gundealer that offered 24 hour turnaround on Reflex moderator fitting, but I lost the copy of ISD that it was in...

thanks,

Sakofan

johngalway

Can't be of help to you Sakofan, but I'd also be interested in a gunsmith who does the job right.

Clare gunner

sakofan wrote:

All,

I am thinking of fitting a moderator to a CZ .223 rifle that is not factory threaded. Can anyone recommend a gunshop/gunsmith to perform the threading. Anyone use the reflex over-barrel moderators? What are they like?
I seem to remember an ad for a gundealer that offered 24 hour turnaround on Reflex moderator fitting, but I lost the copy of ISD that it was in...

thanks,

Sakofan

Reflex suppressors are exellent pieces of kit.Well worth the money.

caos

i know of some one that will help he done a great job on my rifle. he fitted
a pes type moderator. stainless steel fits over the barrel.204 remington
fluted it fires half inch groups at 150 yards no prob. he,s name john green
no.0863554425

Samson

What's the legal situation with fitting a silencer/suppressor?
I was under the impression it was illegal.
Is there a legal (and/or practical) distinction between a silencer and a suppressor?

de_shadow

This sort of thing has come up before :

[HTML]http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=180938&highlight=sound+moderator[/HTML]

I would be very carefull about you go about getting your suppressor / silencer ,just last sunday i had my gun (CZ 452 .22lr) seized by gardai for having a threaded barrel even though it comes as standard i had to supply him with a letter from my gunsmith stating that this is the case.
I havent got my gun back yet either cause the detctive in question is not back on duty until friday.

civdef

If that was the only grounds for seizure, I'd be getting a letter from a solicitor, not a gunsmith.

de_shadow

I was on land i didnt really have permission to be on but yeah that was his main reason for taking the rifle, i'll wait and see what happens Friday before i go through solicitors.

maglite

( g ) save where the context otherwise requires, any component part of any
article referred to in any of the foregoing paragraphs and, for the purposes
of this definition, the following articles shall be deemed to be such
component parts as aforesaid.

(i) telescope sights with a light beam, or telescope sights with an
electronic light amplification device or an infra-red device,
designed to be fitted to a firearm specified in paragraph (a),
(b), (c) or (e), and

slightly off topic but after following the link where it says laser sights are illegal...telescopic? a laser that straps on to the barrel is not telescopic what is the deal

Quillo

maglite wrote:

slightly off topic but after following the link where it says laser sights are illegal...telescopic? a laser that straps on to the barrel is not telescopic what is the deal

Sounds like night vision equipment ?

maglite

the rest is but i thought that related to lasers..?

Clare gunner

Sorry for your troubles.An SB arseh"'e with nothing better to do.:mad: Apart from tresspass,not much he can do.Would definately follow it up with a solicitors letter.As actually HE was breaking the law as well.Unless you were comitting a crime,he has no legal right to demand you hand over the firearm either.Omly way he can get it off you is by warrent and a form from your Super recinding your liscense.He would have to arrest you and then he had better have a good legal reason for doing so.

Anyway to answer maglites question on NV and lasers etc. As perusual you can see this is beautifully worded crystal clear easily understandable to all,Irish law.:rolleyes: Technically this would mean if you mounted a search light on your riflescopee for nite fox hunting it is ian illegal device.[telescopic sight with a light source]. Part two covers night vision equipment,but is already soo dated as to be a waste of time. Simply purchase a holosight and a pair of NV goggles and you can legally hunt at night with night vision.Although hunting with NV is an art well learned,not just the saftey factor alone .
Also note that those who have big bucks to spend,THERMAL imaging is not mentioned at all.At this years SHOT show there was an imager that is now the size of a good nite scope@$18K retail.Still mad money,but like NVG it is coming down in price every year.
Lasers,there is somthing in the act that does specify lasers,as anything that projects a beam of light onto a target and is firearms mountable.
FWIW,I think they are not as cracked up as they are made out to be.They diffuse in wet and foggy conditions,are really only worth the time in low light conditions,are useless in bright day light,and can be a major PITA to zero properly to point of aim.Dont bother trying to zero your laser to scope or vise versa.Use them as two seperate entities.
Silencers and suppressors
Again no defination in Irish law as to what a "silencer"is.
Apart from supposedly a firearm component[which it is not ,it's an accessory unless it is built intergrally into the gun barrel].Nor is there a defination of a sound modifer,or suppressor.So you could argue a very strong case in court that you have a sound modifier not a silencer on your gun.As if you read any of the boxes that Parker Hale ,etc sell their products it says Sound modifier,not silencer.Hey!We didnt write this law.If the gubmit cant differantiate between a silencer,sound suppressor or sound modifer[which if one looks at the descriptions all do three different things as well,silences,suppresses,modifys and ask them to explain the difference] are we to blame? Another trick to save yourselves the hassle of threading barrels for 22s.In the UK Parker Hale makes a collet type adapter that has a 1/2inX20 TPI thread for suppressors.All you do is attach the collet onto the muzzle[might have to remove your fnt sight depending on model] screw on your modifier,away you go.Remove the whole unit when finished.No threading or bother from all and sundry.

NOTE of course this post is for information purposes only.You are all sensible adult folks who would NEVER dream of doing anything illegal.So it is quite safe to give you such dangerous knowledge.:)

Quillo

Clare gunner wrote:

In the UK Parker Hale makes a collet type adapter that has a 1/2inX20 TPI thread for suppressors.All you do is attach the collet onto the muzzle[might have to remove your fnt sight depending on model] screw on your modifier,away you go.Remove the whole unit when finished.No threading or bother from all and sundry

Unfortunately is only works with cylindrical barrels between 13.5mm and 16mm diameter

Keelan

de_shadow wrote:

This sort of thing has come up before :

[HTML]http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=180938&highlight=sound+moderator[/HTML]

I would be very carefull about you go about getting your suppressor / silencer ,just last sunday i had my gun (CZ 452 .22lr) seized by gardai for having a threaded barrel even though it comes as standard i had to supply him with a letter from my gunsmith stating that this is the case.
I havent got my gun back yet either cause the detctive in question is not back on duty until friday.

What the garda did here is totally illagle and ignorant!!!!!.
Just another made up law from a cop with no brains.:rolleyes:
Get to your solicitor quick and sort this perfetic problem out.
As soon as their is a garda watch dog in this country the better.:mad:

Quillo

It may be useful, once the final legislation is in place, if the various shooting organisations came together to publish a small booklet on the legislation that could be bought by every shooter in the country and carried around for reference..... it could also be used to raise funds for the inevitable courtroom challenges

mcguiver

To get back onto the real topic.

The gun/fishing store in Tallaght ...(The one we all moan about !)he's in the book, so no free advertising, will get this job done for you, normally charges around 40- 50 euro.

Off the topic, if your on land that you don't have permission to be on, and your carrying a firearm.. yep Mr. Garda will take it. that's a pretty obvious one any responsible shooter would agree.

caos

[

Clare gunner

Off the topic, if your on land that you don't have permission to be on, and your carrying a firearm.. yep Mr. Garda will take it. that's a pretty obvious

Trouble is YOU have surrenderd a weapon to somone who has NO authorithy to posses it,or under trespass legislation to demand it off you.The onus is on YOU to prove that the Garda had the right to take it off you,for that he needs a warrent cosigned by his Super.Simple as that,no if's or buts.If you refuse to surrender it,he can arrest you,but then must be dead sure of the charge.The only arrestable offence under trespass law is refusing to leave the property.

Keelan

mcguiver wrote:

Off the topic, if your on land that you don't have permission to be on, and your carrying a firearm.. yep Mr. Garda will take it. that's a pretty obvious one any responsible shooter would agree.

Are you a garda?
Tresspassing on land is a different matter, infact its a civil offence, not a law.
The garda in question, took the rifle off him because his rifle was treaded at the factory it came from, he did not get it threaded himself. It came that way.
He had no moderator on it, therefore, he was not breaking the law sir!!:rolleyes:

Keelan

Clare gunner wrote:

Trouble is YOU have surrenderd a weapon to somone who has NO authorithy to posses it,or under trespass legislation to demand it off you.The onus is on YOU to prove that the Garda had the right to take it off you,for that he needs a warrent cosigned by his Super.Simple as that,no if's or buts.If you refuse to surrender it,he can arrest you,but then must be dead sure of the charge.The only arrestable offence under trespass law is refusing to leave the property.

Well said, at least their is someone here who knows what they are talking about.
Thanks for the comment Clare Gunner.

civdef

There is this provision:

22.—(1) Any member of the Garda Siochana may demand from any person whom he observes or believes to be in possession of, using, or carrying a firearm or any ammunition, the production of his firearm certificate and if such person fails to produce and permit such member to read a firearm certificate authorising him to have possession of, use, or carry (as-the case may require) such firearm or ammunition, such member of the Garda Siochana may unless such person shows that he is entitled by law to have possession of, use, or carry (as the case may require) at that time and in that place such firearm or ammunition without having a firearm certificate therefor demand from such person his name and address.

(2) If any person, on demand being made to him under this section by a member of the Garda Siochana, refuses to give to such member his name and address or gives a name or address which is false or misleading in any material particular, he shall be guilty of an offence under this section and shall be liable on summary conviction thereof to a fine not exceeding ten pounds.

(3) Any member of the Garda Siochana may arrest without warrant any person who, on demand being made under this section, refuses to give his name and address or gives a name or address which the member of the Garda Siochana demanding the same knows or suspects to be false or misleading in any material particular.

(4) In addition to any other powers conferred on him under this Act or otherwise, any member of the Garda Siochana may stop and search and may also arrest without warrant any person whom he believes to be in possession of or to be using or carrying a firearm or ammunition in contravention of any of the provisions of this Act, and may search any such person, and, whether arresting him or not, may seize and detain any firearm or ammunition in his possession or used or carried by him.

Keelan

civdef wrote:

There is this provision:

Common sense really............CARRY YOUR PERMIT AT ALL TIMES.;)

Clare gunner

Logical point on carrying your liscense.[NOTE to mr Mc Dowell,any chance of making the liscenses a bit more wallet friendly??These things were designed when a ten pound note was the size of an A4 sheet of paper:rolleyes: ]

As for De Shadows problem,all we know is he was comitting a civil offence,we will give him the benefit of the doubt that he didnt refuse to give name and address.Maybe he didnt have his liscense with him,if he did ASFIK it will not show that there is a silencer going with this gun as well.[What does a special permission for a silencer look like anyway?Has anyone actually got one?Be intrested to see what it looks like without the posters details of course.]
Plus as he said the SB sod was confiscating the weapon because of a threaded barrel,not because of the tresspass or liscense or ID issue.So mr SB man was ASSuming there was a silencer somwhere.
A threaded barrel proves nothing,depending on the gun it could also hold a muzzle break,flash hider or counterweight.
[I assume De Shadow was leaving the land,not caught actually on it].
It looks like a SB sod throwing his weight about.And on very thin legal ice as well.This is another reason we DO need a legal fund and a pro shooting lawyer that we could call to fight legal issues that will [and have cropped up] over the years.

mcguiver

"I was on land i didnt really have permission to be on ".

I hate to be off thread .. but here's where us shooters always seem to be our own worst enemy. You see someone shooting on your land, who shouldn't be there, you call the Gardai, they come ... what would you expect them to do... take details in the notebook and send trespasser on their way with firearm??

The details of the specific case are too vague to give a definitive answer to but I'd be looking at Sec. 25A (as amended by Sec.8 Criminal Law Juristiction Act 1976, and sec 14 Criminal Justice Act 1984) .. which basically says if Mr. Garda has reasononable suspicion that the firearm is not being used lawfully , an example of this being on land that he's not allowed to. then it's an offence.

Then Sec.22 of the 1925 firearms act gives the power of arrest.

Most Gardai won't be familiar with firearms legislation (cos its very rare they deal with fireams), so they would rather sieze the firearm, get advice back at station and if everythings in order hand it back with a warning not to be shooting without permission.

Clare gunner

[

QUOTE=mcguiver]"I was on land i didnt really have permission to be on ".

I hate to be off thread .. but here's where us shooters always seem to be our own worst enemy. You see someone shooting on your land, who shouldn't be there, you call the Gardai, they come ... what would you expect them to do... take details in the notebook and send trespasser on their way with firearm??

If they could even be botherd coming out in the first place.
With the circumstances outlined in the case quite frankly YES.

The details of the specific case are too vague to give a definitive answer to but I'd be looking at Sec. 25A (as amended by Sec.8 Criminal Law Juristiction Act 1976, and sec 14 Criminal Justice Act 1984) .. which basically says if Mr. Garda has reasononable suspicion that the firearm is not being used lawfully , an example of this being on land that he's not allowed to. then it's an offence.

Trouble in this case as described, mr Garda was confiscating the gun because of a threaded barrel,not because of the civil wrong of tresspass or suspicion of the gun being used unlawfully.As such tresspass is a very vauge law here.Was DS caught going onto the land?Orderd off by somone and was leaving,or just bumped into the SB coming off the land??What exactly did DS mean he didnt exactly have permission?Was it a verbal agreement,or ????We dont know all we have is DS words that he was snatching the gun due to it having a threaded barrel.

Then Sec.22 of the 1925 firearms act gives the power of arrest.

However then that opens up a whole can of worms.You must be told the nature of the charge.Illegal possesion of a firearm or the civil tort of tresspass[which currently the law of trespass is a joke here].Arrest for tresspass are rare anymore,and only apply f you refuse to leave the property or premises.
It would be an embarrasment if he arrested him for illegal possesion and then found out he was liscensed,and leaving him wide open for a lawsuit of wrongful arrest.

Most Gardai won't be familiar with firearms legislation (cos its very rare they deal with fireams), so they would rather sieze the firearm, get advice back at station and if everythings in order hand it back with a warning not to be shooting without permission.

Hmmm,then the adage of "beyond reasonable doubt"that a crime has been comitted that is the norm obviously does not apply anymore.

civdef

You don't need to prove beyond reasonable doubt someone is guilty of an offence to arrest them for it - you need reasonable grounds to suspect they have done so (or words to that effect - my experience in this stuff is from England rather than Ireland).

Keelan

civdef wrote:

You don't need to prove beyond reasonable doubt someone is guilty of an offence to arrest them for it - you need reasonable grounds to suspect they have done so (or words to that effect - my experience in this stuff is from England rather than Ireland).

Different kettle of fish mate then UK.
If you are cought in the UK with a firearm and are tresspassing, you are in deep S--T, as you will be classed as 'ARMED TRESSPASS'and have the armed responce unit, hovering around you with a chopper!!!!!!
Bit more layed back here i think!:rolleyes:
I know, i have shot and lived their for 22 years.;)

civdef

Different kettle of fish mate then UK.

The firearms legislation is different sure, but the general principles of arrest etc are almost identical.

mcguiver

All good points, and yes in the UK I recon that would be the last time you see that firearm...or hold a permit for one again.

I'm guessing to be on the safe side the Garda took the gun, saying it was because it was threaded could be down to lack of knowledge or inexperience in this area. Over 10,000 Gardai, The huge majority have never handled, fired or owned a firearm. The poster doesn't say if he had his firearms cert with him etc. plus circumstances, language, attitude, body language etc. all come into play in these situations... endless possibilities.Looks like both parties were a little wrong,hopefully firearm is returned and shooter doesn't shoot on land without permission... and Garda gets briefed on this end of the legislation.

But taking our shooters hats off for a while, there are shooters all over the country on land where they shouldn't. There are signposts everywhere shot to pieces, rusty firearms held together with bits of rope etc. etc.
Surely we should be covering ourselves by not giving people excuses to have a go at our hobby/sport/pastime.

The moral I see here is to shoot responsibly, where we are allowed and give nobody any excuse to make life for us shooters any more difficult.

And the origional question?? do a search of previous threads on legality etc. it's been covered before... and as I said that guy will get it done, as I'm sure most gun stores will... but as always, talk to fellow shooters they can tell you where to avoid.

Now time to clean those guns.
Happy shootin

de_shadow

O.K. lads heres the full story:
i had been out hunting on the sunday morning i had a few rabbits and was on my way home, i spotted a few more in a field and parked the car i was just getting ready to get out when i saw the garda SB car turning down the lane in my direction so i sat tight the car passed me the gards had a good look and when they passed i decided enough was enough so i headed for home ,they follwed me for about 100 yards the flashed the blue lights and pulled me over .
they asked what i was up to i told them i'd been out hunting they told me to get out of the car i did the cops saw the gun placed it against the side of the car asked me for my licence which i handed over and then proceeded to tell me how illegal it was to have a threaded barrel i told him the gun came like that then asked me where was the silencer so itold him 'cos while this was happening 2nd garda searched the car saw the rabbits i had ,took my magazines and ammo and found my silencer in the center consol at which stage he said he was confiscating the gun ,ammo mags and silencer and holding on to my licence to check it out.
He told me to go home and he would contact me during the week and that i he wanted to see a letter from my gunsmith to say that the gun was purchased threaded.

Sparks

Sounds like they didn't know the law involved DS, and decided to play it safe. They shouldn't have taken the firearm out of the car and let it stand there in full view of passers-by though, that's no good for your personal security. Taking your licence as well, that's rather dodgy. I'd be on to the superintendent right then and there on the mobile, or the moment I got home if I didn't have the mobile handy. Did you at least get a receipt?

On the whole, it's bloody akward for you I know, but for the other 95% of the population, they'd feel safer I guess that the Gardai were "doing something". Once the superintendent has seen your licences for the rifle and silencer, it ought to get straightened out in a hurry, and if not, then that's where I'd personally say that it's gone too far past the point of being reasonable in the broader sense of things.

de_shadow

I spoke to the the detective last week and asked him for my licence back he said he wasn't giving it back and that he was referring the whole thing to my district super that its up to him as to whether i get it back.And no i didnt get a receipt on either ocasion
I didnt have an authorisation for the silencer i only had it a couple of days and it was my first time using it ( only have the gun a few weeks too)
So back to the O.P. carefull how you go about getting your silencer

civdef

Sounds like you really need to start talking to a solicitor, for one thing you could be facing criminal charges..

Sparks

Indeed. Not having a licence for a silencer is a criminal offence I think I'd be calling a soliciter today if I were in that position.

Clare gunner

de_shadow wrote:

O.K. lads heres the full story:

i had been out hunting on the sunday morning i had a few rabbits and was on my way home, i spotted a few more in a field and parked the car i was just getting ready to get out when i saw the garda SB car turning down the lane in my direction so i sat tight the car passed me the gards had a good look and when they passed i decided enough was enough so i headed for home ,they follwed me for about 100 yards the flashed the blue lights and pulled me over .

Ok,as of yet no crime or offence being comitted.

they asked what i was up to i told them i'd been out hunting they told me to get out of the car i did the cops saw the gun placed it against the side of the car asked me for my licence which i handed over and then proceeded to tell me how illegal it was to have a threaded barrel

BEEEEP for the Gaurds on firearms saftey and nonsense about threaded barrel.

i told him the gun came like that then asked me where was the silencer so itold him 'cos while this was happening 2nd garda searched the car saw the rabbits i had ,took my magazines and ammo and found my silencer in the center consol at which stage he said he was confiscating the gun ,ammo mags and silencer and holding on to my licence to check it out.

BEEEP again on the Gardai,taking the cert,and not issueing a recipt for any of the confiscated items.Also questionable about the car search,they will have now to justify the reasonable grounds for stop ,search and seizure

He told me to go home and he would contact me during the week and that i he wanted to see a letter from my gunsmith to say that the gun was purchased threaded.

Wonder what you would do if the gun was an old model that had been threaded years ago by a defunct gunsmith??

To answer your other points;if you have applied for the silencer[should also have said to them it is a sound modifer] and it is in the files should be no problem.As there is no requirement ASFIK to show a liscense or whatever to buy a silencer over the counter,it can be put down as paperwork delay.
If ,however the station has an ambigious policy on silencers,some say the liscense is enough,others want the authorisation etc.You can say that the local FAO said the liscense was enough. But all in all the SOB SB is now just being a thick you now what.I would advise a good solicitor as well.Again this is where we need a name of a very pro and firearms law aufe solicitor that all shooters could call on for this type of nonsense.

Keelan

Clare gunner wrote:

de_shadow wrote:

l on for this type of nonsense.

Agree a 100%.

mcguiver

Well that clarifies the actual event.
Stop, search etc. no problem there.. easily justified.
Receipts not issued on the ground ...call to the station... although I wouldn't be making any demands at the moment.

Your in an awkward situation there all right, best defence would be ignorance on the need for licence ...I'm assuming you got it from a dealer..who didn't ask for one?? therefore you didn't think you needed one.

I'd try to have an off the record chat with the Garda.. avoid change of shifts and their break time.... ask their advice.