Anything I can do?

Jamey

OK, so I've just been let go from my job in an Internet Cafe. I have been givin a stupid reason of 'you're figures were off, and you were talking to friends in here while you were supposed to be working'. I would debate with both of these reasons. I am 17, had been working there since I was 16, and I know in my heart that the real reason I've been let go is because I turn 18 next month, and the boss is too scabby to pay me the full minimum wage so he will just get a new underage person in, he's already done this as a matter of fact. Anyways, since I've been working there, there was a lot of things happening that I think may have been not right, or illegal. Can anyone tell me if I have a valid case to bring against him, based on the following things:

*I was being paid €5.36 an hour, and getting my wages monthly.

*I was working 6 and 7 hour shifts without a break.

*I was working after 10pm, unsupervised at aged 16/17. This is the one I'm nearly sure can't be right.

*I was a keyholder, and opened and closed the shop at aged 16/17.

*I was once docked wages, because the figures were down. I knew why the were, and it was a valid explanation, but the boss would not listen.

I'm sure theres more things I could tell that I think couldn't be fair, but just wanna know if anyone could help me on these at the moment?

Our man in Havana

If you were there for over 1 year the unfair dismissals act applies. Seek the advice of a solicitor/ union rep.

Jamey

I think there may be the matter of a few days in being a year there. I definetily joined in april of last year. I'll have to check it out. Cheers.

DOLEMAN

As bond said, there is little you can do if you are there for less than a year.

Did you sign a contract? If so, are you on probation still...?

Do they have any money? As in, if you did take them to court and won, could you actually get anything from them? Worth considering before you commit to something which will be stressful and potentially expensive.

Sorry to hear about your situation.

Jamey

DOLEMAN wrote:

As bond said, there is little you can do if you are there for less than a year.

Did you sign a contract? If so, are you on probation still...?

Do they have any money? As in, if you did take them to court and won, could you actually get anything from them? Worth considering before you commit to something which will be stressful and potentially expensive.

Sorry to hear about your situation.

Yes I did sign a contract. Come to think of it, it said on the contract I would be payed the minimum wage for someone over 18, but when the boss realised i was under 18, he cut my wages. How do you mean am I still on probation? And yeah, don't worry, they do have money.

seamus

Jamey wrote:

*I was being paid €5.36 an hour, and getting my wages monthly.

Perfectly legal.

*I was working 6 and 7 hour shifts without a break.

Not legal. You are entitled to a 15 minute break after four and a half hours work. If you continue working and clock up 6 hours, you are entitled to another 15 minutes. These breaks are unpaid.
If you work in a shop (which you did) and worked more than 6 hours, and that 6 hours included the period of 11.30am - 2.30pm, then you would have been entitled to one hours' unpaid break between 11.30am and 2.30pm.

*I was working after 10pm, unsupervised at aged 16/17. This is the one I'm nearly sure can't be right.

Completely correct. Workers aged 16 or 17 are only permitted to work between 6am and 10pm.

*I was a keyholder, and opened and closed the shop at aged 16/17.

Not illegal, nor otherwise entitles you to anything.

*I was once docked wages, because the figures were down. I knew why the were, and it was a valid explanation, but the boss would not listen.

This is not set in stone. Generally, if your boss has clarified beforehand that you will be docked, then there's no problem. If he docks you out of the blue, then he could land himself in trouble, since he's effectively accusing you of theft and/or negligence, and then punishing you without trial, which he's not allowed to do.

Under 18, you'll find that many employers who aren't large companies will bend the rules a little and screw you over for three main reasons: You're unlikely to know your rights, you're unlikely to argue with the boss, and if you storm out, there are hundreds more kids lining up at the door.

I wouldn't expect to get much out of this guy. Certainly in the way of monetary compensation, you'll get little or none. They don't owe you any money according to what you've said. Reporting him to the labour relations commission about the items I've outlined above could land him in some serious trouble. In the long run, you'll probably find legal justice to be sweeter than a few euro in your pocket.

seamus

Jamey wrote:

Yes I did sign a contract. Come to think of it, it said on the contract I would be payed the minimum wage for someone over 18, but when the boss realised i was under 18, he cut my wages.

Your employer can't do this. The wording however on the contract makes all the difference. If the contract says "You will be paid minimum wage in accordance....etc", but doesn't specify the actual amount, then it's fine that he paid you €5.36/hour.

However, if the contract says, "You will be paid €7.00/hour", then the employer absolutely cannot reduce that amount without first agreeing the cut with you and then giving you a new contract with the adjusted amount. If he simply said "I'm cutting your wages", then you may have a case to sue him for all of those back hours of €1.64. Talk to a solicitor first though, and check your contract inside-out.

How do you mean am I still on probation?

Generally an employer will specify a probationary period on your contract, during which time the employer can fire you, pretty much without reason. This period can't be longer than a year though, so you're probably safe on that.

Jamey

This is what the contract said exactly, unfortunetly I don't have a copy of the one I signed, which could be a problem, because I can't really prove I signed it then?

"Your pro-rated gross salary will be €7.65 per hour paid gross of taxes, PRSI and statutory deductions calculated to the 25th day of each month and paid no later then the last day of each month"

So I signed this, but was told a week later that the accounts woman had noticed that I was under 18, so I would be paid €5.36 instead. I was not given a new contract.

I have thought of more things that I could take up against him too. Shop closing time was 11pm, and that's all I got paid till. However, most work was done after this, cleaning up, till work, closing up and such. I was usually in till 11.30 or more most night...and I wasn't being paid for it. Anything wrong with that?

*I was working after 10pm, unsupervised at aged 16/17. This is the one I'm nearly sure can't be right.

Completely correct. Workers aged 16 or 17 are only permitted to work between 6am and 10pm.

Ok, so I was working till 11pm or 11.30pm at night at aged 16/17, just to clarify, this is illegal yes?

Litcagral

Working hours, time off and rest breaks for young people aged 16 and 17
Maximum working day 8 hours
Maximum working week 40 hours
Half hour rest break after 41/2 hours work
Daily rest break 12 consecutive hours off
Weekly rest break 2 days off, to be consecutive as far as is practicable

If a young person under 18 works for more than one employer, the combined daily or weekly hours of work cannot exceed the maximum number of hours allowed.

Limits on night work and early morning work
Employers are not permitted to require employees under 16 to work before 8 am in the morning or after 8 pm at night. In general, young people aged 16 and 17 are not allowed to work before 6 am in the morning of after 10 pm at night.

Young persons are only permitted work between 6am and 10pm. Any exceptions to this rule must be provided by regulation.

The Protection of Young Persons Act, 1996 (Employment in Licensed Premises) Regulations, 2001 – (SI 350 of 2001) permits young people employed on general duties in a licensed premises to be required to work up to 11 pm on a day that does not immediately precede a school day during a school term where the young person is attending school.

Employers who employ young persons to carry out general duties in a licensed premises must have regard to the Code of Practice concerning the Employment of Young Persons in Licensed Premises.

seamus

Jamey wrote:

This is what the contract said exactly, unfortunetly I don't have a copy of the one I signed, which could be a problem, because I can't really prove I signed it then?

Sign the copy you have, and that's legally binding. You don't need to prove that you signed his copy.

"Your pro-rated gross salary will be €7.65 per hour paid gross of taxes, PRSI and statutory deductions calculated to the 25th day of each month and paid no later then the last day of each month"

So I signed this, but was told a week later that the accounts woman had noticed that I was under 18, so I would be paid €5.36 instead. I was not given a new contract.

Then you're pretty much entitled to that extra cash. It's not black and white though. There may be legal precendents about "implied agreement", i.e. he told you and you said OK.

I have thought of more things that I could take up against him too. Shop closing time was 11pm, and that's all I got paid till. However, most work was done after this, cleaning up, till work, closing up and such. I was usually in till 11.30 or more most night...and I wasn't being paid for it. Anything wrong with that?

You weren't obliged to stay and do unpaid work. He would not have been allowed fire you for walking out once your time was up. This is one thing I hear a lot of, and it shocks me that no-one (or their parents) pull the employer up on it. You cannot insist that someone arrive before their shift and/or stay back after their shift, and not pay them. Full stop.
Unless you have a written record of the days you stayed back after 11, unpaid, then it'd be difficult to prove.

If you're going the compensation/back pay route, have a look on www.oasis.gov.ie about obtaining employment legal advice.

Ok, so I was working till 11pm or 11.30pm at night at aged 16/17, just to clarify, this is illegal yes?

Yes.

Litcagral

Re Contract

Jamey - bear in mind that the legal rules as to the formation of a contract are vague and it is modified by considerable amounts of legislation and case law regardless of the wishes of the parties.

gerrycollins

i think seamus nailed it on the head realisticly you wont get much outta this guy but go to a solicitor he can take it to the labour court and to be honest he will be murdered by them if it all stands up in court
as you stand your only entitlements to this matter is compenstation which in all honesty will only stand at a fixed rate as this was not your "job for life"
you can be renistated which many dont go for or do to prove a point then hand in notice
he might try to buy you off the keep your silence but dont relent if you can its people like this that corrupt the system for the rest of us lay biding employers
he should face the full rath of the labour courts
ps if your there less than a year and unless the matter was dealt with correctly by your boss by was of meetings etc he can still be dealt with by the labor courts just you wont get dismissal act hearing in main court(am i right )

elvis2002

Jamey wrote:

the real reason I've been let go is because I turn 18 next month, and the boss is too scabby to pay me the full minimum wage so he will just get a new underage person in,

Then why did he hire you in the first place? You said in another post that he thought you were over 18 when he hired you and only realised later you were 17 , then decided to cut your wage.