Toyota Prius

rosie2

I am very tempted to buy one of these great-looking, zero-emission cars. I sat in one a few days ago and am taking a test drive next week. the only little drawback (in my opinion) is the automatic gearbox. Eventhough it looks a lot neater than other automatic gearboxes, in that the gear lever is right beside the steering wheel, I'm still a bit nervous about remembering to use only one foot etc. Any opinions or advice?



http://www.kpbj.com/images/automotiv...us_1704_LG.jpg

fletch

rosie2 wrote:

I am very tempted to buy one of these great-looking, zero-emission cars.[/url]

"Zero-emission cars".....don't they have a 1.5 engine aswell as the battery power?

Uuuh Patsy

rosie2 wrote:

I am very tempted to buy one of these great-looking, zero-emission cars. I sat in one a few days ago and am taking a test drive next week. the only little drawback (in my opinion) is the automatic gearbox. Eventhough it looks a lot neater than other automatic gearboxes, in that the gear lever is right beside the steering wheel, I'm still a bit nervous about remembering to use only one foot etc. Any opinions or advice?



http://www.kpbj.com/images/automotiv...us_1704_LG.jpg

I think I read on an earlier post somewhere that the batteries have to be replaced at 100,000km or something and they are'nt cheap. Might be an idea to check it out. Also, servicing wont be cheap either I would think. Not you back street garage job.

maidhc

fletch wrote:

"Zero-emission cars".....don't they have a 1.5 engine aswell as the battery power?

i suspect between the Corolla 1.4D4D and the Prius the Corolla is the more environmentally friendly. It isnt far behind on Co2 emissions, I presume it is fitted with a particulate filter, and for sustained driving it will return far better MPG.

On top of this it can run on 5% Biodiesel and it doesnt have a battery.

junkyard

I'd prefer to buy the Ford Focus FlexiFuel which runs on bio-ethanol and petrol. At least it would be re-saleable in a few years time and won't look as dated as the Prius does even now, plus you get 50% off the VRT.

bazz26

I think the electric engine in the Prius only runs up to about 70kph, the 1.5 petrol engine kicks in at any speed above that. The Prius will be good for constant urban driving but if you do any driving outside a city then it will probably have little or no benefit. Not sure what kind of regular servicing the electric motor needs but I'm sure only a Toyota dealer will be able to do this which may not be cheap.

The Corolla 1.4 D4-D makes more sense, the fact that the Prius has quirky styling that you either love or hate, high purchase price, available in automatic only and people's reluctance to switch to alternative technology will stand against it come resale time imo.

maidhc

junkyard wrote:

I'd prefer to buy the Ford Focus FlexiFuel which runs on bio-ethanol and petrol. At least it would be re-saleable in a few years time and won't look as dated as the Prius does even now, plus you get 50% off the VRT.

Is this on sale yet? What about the VRT rebate? Do we have to wait until the finance act is passed for this to happen?

junkyard

As far as I know it's available, not sure about the act or rebate. I was down collecting a couple of cars from the dealer and he was on about them but tbh I wasn't paying much attention. He gave me some leaflets which I'll check or alternatively check out Ford.ie.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

You could deal with the whole one foot thing by taping your left foot to the seat;) no i don't think its too hard to get used to, once you get over the lack of clutch, its like driving a go-cart

maidhc

junkyard wrote:

As far as I know it's available, not sure about the act or rebate.

Questions answered:
http://www.motoringlife.ie/news_ford0306.htm

Definately the way to go!

junkyard

Now we know...nice car too btw.:)

Guy:Incognito

sean_keevey wrote:

You could deal with the whole one foot thing by taping your left foot to the seat;) no i don't think its too hard to get used to, once you get over the lack of clutch, its like driving a go-cart

Yeah it's dead easy. I just changed to a 2.5 auto safrane last week.Took about 5 mins to slip into full auto mode (my brain that is) and its such a lazy way to drive. I love it. Just have to go on a few long drives to use the cruise control properly now.:)

knifey_spoonie

Id like to know where the whole idea of replacing the batteries came out of they dont have to be replaced after 60,000 miles.Toyota have a 8 year unlimited mileage warrenty on all hybrid parts now if the batteries needed to be replaced at 60,000 miles do you think they would offer a 8yr warrenty.

You should drive the prius i know people who hated driving one and i know people who love them its up to personal tastes.Its a strange felling moving but there being no engine noise.

junkyard

I hate driving them tbh, the car seems to be alive in a creepy sort of way, especially when you drive off in electric mode.

rosie2

Thanks everyone for your ideas and advice. I'll let you know how I get on with the test drive.

unkel

Beware! The Prius doesn't achieve anywhere near the official MPG. In fact it struggles to get 45 mpg, way worse than a modern diesel of similar size

ninty9er

Relatives have one and regularly travle from Cork to Dublin, as well as urban/rural in Cork, Avg MPG is 57 MPG and they compete with each other to see who can do better. No Petrol used below 50 Kph

pburns

Zero-emissions my a**e!
It's become a fashion accessory for the PC brigade (thanks to Cameron Diaz, Tom Hanks et al).
In reality a 1.6 diesel Focus/Mazda3/Citroen C4 are all less wasteful of the world's resources and better to drive. I know Citroen are lambasted by people here but it's a pretty funky car, if you like that thing...

As a previous post pointed out, some customers are complaining of much lower MPG than expected.

Question is, do you genuinely want a ecologically-friendly car or a fashion trinket?

maidhc

pburns wrote:

It's become a fashion accessory for the PC brigade (thanks to Cameron Diaz, Tom Hanks et al).

So true. Although I suspect the Lexus 400h is causing heads to explode.. is it or isn't it PC?

bkehoe

Surely the amount of energy consumed is still the same with these cars? Something has to move the car from a to b, and that energy has to be obtained from something. If all the energy is being produced by the petrol engine anyway (i.e. both mechanical and electrical), then surely it's more inefficient than being directly powered? The process of converting the mechanical energy to electrical and then back to mechanical can not be 100% efficient.


I presume they charge themselves up from the petrol engine when it's running, or can you plug them into the mains every night when you're home? But still, a fossil fuel is being burned to produce the energy, even if you can plug them into your home esb supply. One must then wonder about the ecological cost of producing and, in time, disposing of the presumably large battery array that's required, as well as the components of the electric motors, etc. I wouldnt be surprised if some of these vehicles actually have a higher environmental cost overall than other conventional small engine cars - opinions?

bkehoe

Forgot to mention MPG... We have a VW Gold 1.9TDI which will easily get 55MPG on mixed driving, rising to almost 60MPG on long journeys if driven carefully (not especially slow, just a fuel efficient speed, e.g. 90KPH). Audi A4 1.9TDI in the family gets 50 - 55MPG. Unfortunatly I've got a Discovery (2004 auto) which struggles to get 30!

greglo23

you can't plug them into the mains as they only charge from the engine unless you get the kit from the states to do this. toyota dont support this at all.

Anan1

ninty9er wrote:

No Petrol used below 50 Kph

Not true. How do you think the battery is charged?:)

Anan1

maidhc wrote:

So true. Although I suspect the Lexus 400h is causing heads to explode.. is it or isn't it PC?

Well it's still an SUV, isn't it?

Robbo

Am I the only one who's considered stripping out all the electric guff from a Prius and dropping in a big V8?

greglo23

Anan1 wrote:

Not true. How do you think the battery is charged?:)

the battery is charged by regenerative braking where the electric motor works as a generator and also by the petrol engine when travelling over 50 kph.

unkel

greglo23 wrote:

the battery is charged by regenerative braking where the electric motor works as a generator and also by the petrol engine when travelling over 50 kph.

So, you can drive it forever on the electric motor without filling it up with petrol as long as you keep your speed below a certain treshold?

Don't think so

Anan1

greglo23 wrote:

the battery is charged by regenerative braking where the electric motor works as a generator and also by the petrol engine when travelling over 50 kph.

My question was a rhetorical one, the point being that the power in the battery is produced by burning petrol.;)

greglo23

unkel wrote:

So, you can drive it forever on the electric motor without filling it up with petrol as long as you keep your speed below a certain treshold?

Don't think so

do a little research before you scoff. http://tinyurl.com/lv7w7

Anan1

greglo23 wrote:

do a little research before you scoff. http://tinyurl.com/lv7w7

Surely you don't really believe that the Prius can travel indefinitely below 50km/h without using petrol?

Eoin

Anan1 wrote:

Surely you don't really believe that the Prius can travel indefinitely below 50km/h without using petrol?

Once you brake occasionally, you should be OK!

Re: the Lexus 300h - didn't the Sunday Times motoring section show that the Merc diesel SUV was more fuel efficient? Though, I don't know if that automatically means more eco-friendly. The same article also said that many Prius drivers worldwide complain that the fuel economy averages around 40-45 MPG. Not all that great, but probably sounds great for the Americans who may be more used to massive engines.

rosie2

Regarding zero-emissions, the Prius is by far the cleanest car on the market -
Taking into account all kinds of exhaust emissions (amongst those equipped with an internal combusion engine). While CO2 emissions rival small cars, NOx and HC emissions are lower than any other petrol car on the road today. Particle emissions, a great inconvenience of diesel engines, are reduced to ZERO.

unkel

greglo23 wrote:

do a little research before you scoff. http://tinyurl.com/lv7w7

If you're seriously believing that you can travel forever without using any petrol, it's time for some basic physics lessons for ya

Hint: apply the first law of thermal dynamics in processes that are less than 100% efficient

maidhc

rosie2 wrote:

Regarding zero-emissions, the Prius is by far the cleanest car on the market -
Taking into account all kinds of exhaust emissions (amongst those equipped with an internal combusion engine). While CO2 emissions rival small cars, NOx and HC emissions are lower than any other petrol car on the road today. Particle emissions, a great inconvenience of diesel engines, are reduced to ZERO.

A lot of diesels, in particular the HDis are now being fitted with diesel particulate filters, which reduce particualtes by about 60% (although require a expenasive change at 70k). But at the end of the day, I think common consensus is that a prius uses up more of mother earths resources than a small diesel, or even a small car in general.

unkel

maidhc wrote:

A lot of diesels, in particular the HDis are now being fitted with diesel particulate filters, which reduce particualtes by about 60% (although require a expenasive change at 70k)

They were the first generation of particulate filters. Other manufacturers, like BMW, now fit Euro IV second generation DPFs as standard on most diesels that reduce particulates by nearly 100% and are maintenance free

maidhc wrote:

But at the end of the day, I think common consensus is that a prius uses up more of mother earths resources than a small diesel, or even a small car in general.

I agree unless of course one can run a prius forever without a drop of petrol

Anan1

eoin_s wrote:

Once you brake occasionally, you should be OK!

Please tell me you're joking?

maidhc

unkel wrote:

They were the first generation of particulate filters. Other manufacturers, like BMW, now fit Euro IV second generation DPFs as standard on most diesels that reduce particulates by nearly 100% and are maintenance free

All the better

Blut

I have to say, I'm not too impressed with the Prius. It looks like a slightly uglier Nissan Primera and at 40-50MPG its only about as economical as many smallish (VW polo sized) cars.

Eoin

Anan1 wrote:

Please tell me you're joking?

Of course I was - I just don't like to use the smileys all the time.

ninty9er

The prius batteries do not absorb power from the petrol engine, the batteries are charged by the kinetick energy of the car. Braking accelerating movement of the wheels etc... look up any junior cert science book. I'm sure there'll be an explantion of kinetic energy there for you.

Trust me i know 2 people that have them

maidhc

ninty9er wrote:

Braking accelerating movement of the wheels etc... look up any junior cert science book. I'm sure there'll be an explantion of kinetic energy there for you.

Aside from the regenerative braking which is essentially capturing energy which would otherwise be dissipated, the batteries have to be charged by the petrol engine...

Ratchet

unkel wrote:

Beware! The Prius doesn't achieve anywhere near the official MPG. In fact it struggles to get 45 mpg, way worse than a modern diesel of similar size

echo this


ugly car designed to safe our environment and have lower running cost

instead we end up with car which
-can only be serviced by toyota dealer
-is far from ultra economical
(for the price)
-leaves set of big f3cking batteries every 5 years for next generation to recycle.

nice one

unkel

ninty9er wrote:

The prius batteries do not absorb power from the petrol engine, the batteries are charged by the kinetick energy of the car. Braking accelerating movement of the wheels etc... look up any junior cert science book. I'm sure there'll be an explantion of kinetic energy there for you.

Trust me i know 2 people that have them

This is unreal :eek:

I'll try and explain based on my minimal technical knowledge. Here goes the theory bit:

According to the first law of thermal dynamics, energy is conserved in a closed system. A car on a hill of a certain height has a certain level of potential energy. When driving down the hill, the potential energy is converted into kinetic energy. Kinetic energy is maximised at the bottom of the hill and is sufficient to drive the car up another hill of equal height (kinetic energy converting back into potential energy)

Now in practice this does not work for a variety of reasons. Here's a few:

1. In practice there is air creating resistance for the car to move. The above example is in a vacuum so energy is lost
2. In practice there is rolling resistance of the tyres against the road so energy is lost
3. In practice the conversion from kinetic energy using regenerative braking and storing the energy in the form of electricity in the batteries is far from 100% efficient
4. In practice, the conversion of electricity into kinetic energy by the use of the electromotor is far from 100% efficient

Hope that helps

ninty9er

OKAY. there is energy lost and generated, but if the car kept storing energy it would eventually just explode...well u get my drift, u end up with full batteries the whole time. the point is that there will come a point when you use the petrol engine to power the wheels, causing more energy to pass into the vatteries than is passing out and the cycle continues.

Have you driven one.. been on a long journey in one... I have. They are not thirsty and are ultra quiet when the engine knocks off at 50 kph

Anan1

ninty9er wrote:

The prius batteries do not absorb power from the petrol engine, the batteries are charged by the kinetick energy of the car. Braking accelerating movement of the wheels etc... look up any junior cert science book. I'm sure there'll be an explantion of kinetic energy there for you.

Trust me i know 2 people that have them

This is both patronising and factually incorrect. As has been said before, the only time that the batteries are charged by the kinetic energy of the car is under braking. Although this energy would otherwise be lost, it was nonetheless originally provided by the petrol engine. During steady-speed driving, the battery is charged by the petrol engine. To say that no petrol is used below 50kp/h is simply ridiculous - the car is petrol-powered.

knifey_spoonie

I have seen no clear evidence that a prius needs a set of batteeries every 5 years/60k miles.Yet this seems to be the first thing people say when ever the prius comes up in this forum.

Yes the engine will sometimes provide power to recharge the batteries usualy when the car is idleing.The engine will cut in every 5-10 minutes so the batteries dont become fully discharged.

Ratchet

http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/car-news/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabID=500648&ArticleID=5487&R=ce5487

unkel

maidhc wrote:

All the better

Indeed. Looks like diesel is (or should be) king for the short to medium term

Fair play to the likes of Toyota and Honda for bringing mass-manufactured petrol / electric hybrids to the market. They're bearing huge losses on every single one of them sold, but it simply is too little too late in terms of (environmental) improvement

Both car manufacturers made a huge mistake in not copping on to modern diesel technology until very recently and are desperately trying to get their act together now, with moderate success

I can only see a place for the hybrids in these realms today depending on government fiscal policy. As mentioned, the Royal Emperor of London (Heil Ken!) declared no congestion charge is due for a hybrid. We have our own VRT reduction for hybrids

A bit of a different story in the US where of course anyone buying a hybrid instead of a supersized petrol SUV would contribute to saving the planet