Russia Flys War Machines Via Shannon. March and Speak Out Now!

mike65

Well come on then! If the Great Satan using Shannon is an outrage and a transgression of Irish neutrality then I trust the Russians doing same is A Bad Thing too.

from unison.ie

RUSSIA is using Shannon Airport to export military helicopters to South America.

The Irish Independent can reveal that on February 20 an Antonov cargo plane, registration number UR-82027, landed at Shannon with a cargo of Russian-made Mi-17 helicopters bound for Venezuela.

That was just one week before an Antonov cargo plane from the US landed at Shannon carrying three military helicopters bound for Israel.

The helicopters were part of a consignment of 33 which Venezuela bought from Russia.

The overall consignment includes 20 Mi-17s, primarily used as a troop transport; 10 Mi-35s assault helicopters, which can also be used to transport troops; and three Mi-26Ts.The latter are the heaviest and most powerful helicopters in the world.

Transport Minister Martin Cullen confirmed that Russia has been using Shannon to send military helicopters to Venezuela.

In a statement he said the "inquiry" launched after revelations in last Saturday's Irish Independent that America was using Shannon to send attack helicopters to Israel had been upgraded to a "review".

The statement added: "On February 20, 2006, Antonov RA 82044, operated by Volga DNEPR, landed at Shannon, for a technical stop, flight originating from Russia, en route to Venezuela.

"The department received 'notification only' that the flight of aircraft RA 82044 was landing at Shannon.

"Under international aviation rules, aircraft making technical stops do not need an authorisation.

"In Ireland, however, permission is required if munitions are being carried.

"Volga in the notification indicated that 'no dangerous goods or munitions will be carried on board'. In the course of our enquiries the department has learned that helicopters were, in fact, carried."

That permission for a flight which, the department has confirmed, was carrying heavily-armed military helicopters, was neither sought nor given.

The Department of Transport was responding to the revelations of a second instance of Shannon Airport being used for international arms shipments.

Groups

It said: "The Minister for Transport has initiated a review into the carriage of munitions and dangerous goods.

"The Department of Transport will be consulting with government departments and relevant groups as part of this review."

Earlier this week, the department dismissed initial revelations that America was illegally using Shannon Airport to transport military equipment to Israel as an "isolated incident".

It said the communications problems between the Department of Foreign Affairs and of Transport needed to be addressed.

That was because there were misunderstandings about when each had jurisdiction over certain flights and because neither was aware of the cargo of the American plane bound for Israel.

Although primarily used as a troop transport, the Mi-17s, which passed through Shannon on the way to Venezuela, also carry an array of deadly armaments.

Each helicopter is provided with four missile launchers, bombs weighing up to 500kg, small arms and canon.

Russia was not Venezuela's first choice for its helicopter order.

It originally hoped to buy aircraft from Brazil.

But that deal was blocked by the US, which has pilloried the left-wing government led by President Hugo Chavez.

The Antonov 124 carrying the Velezuelan helicopter order, passed through Shannon airport one later after a plane carrying the American president George Bush touched down at Shannon on are fuelling stop.

One industry observer said: "It's looking more and more like an arms bazaar."

Me off to indymedia to see how the shoe fits on the other foot.

Mike.

Manic Moran

It's been like this all the way through the Cold War. Only seems to have been an issue in recent times. If the rocket launchers weren't loaded, I don't think it would come under the category of 'munitions' or 'dangerous,' thus I don't think anyone was trying to sneak anything.

NTM

A Dub in Glasgo

Of course it is a bad thing. Goes to show how weak the government is.

lostexpectation

PANA the peace and neutrality alliance have already put out a statement criticising this and the governments half-arsed attempts to pretend they don't know exactly what is going on.

^ smartarses!

Pazaz 21

I agree that as long as their were no actual munitions being transported then they haven't technically broken any law. Other then that who cares, its not like their based in shannon or anything !! If i order a package from Australia it will probably have to stop off in a couple of countries, its not like those countries have anything to do with it, so who cares !!

tba

Are Venezuela in the middle of a war? ABout as much as Israel or America are.

http://washingtontimes.com/world/20050420-094003-1069r.htm

another world

It's quite different to what's going with the US planes coming through. Venezuela (under Chavez) does not have a bad record of human rights abuse (certainly not even close to that of the US') and the purpose of these helicopters are not to blow up innocents like in Iraq or Afghanistan - they are to ward of the very real threat of invasion/attack from the US - all countries have a right to defend themselves, and these defence systems have to get there somehow.

SeanW

well said

New_Departure06

Don't expect a demo over this. After all, it's not American...:rolleyes:

another world

lostexpectation wrote:

maybe but not (secretly) through Ireland!

you never know what those war machines are going to be used for in the future even by Chavez, and it doens't matter whether there is munitions on them or not.

I agree with you on the secrecy - this and all other military related flights should be transparent for all to see and protest about if they are against them.

The reason I don't feel this needs to be protested against is because the equipment is being used for defence reasons. True we can never know what the helicopters will be used for but there is no evidence to suggest that they will be used against innocent people and there is evidence to suggest Venezuela could be attacked (2001 coup attempt and more recently the mobilization of US Navy in south caribbean).

Maybe my viewpoint is not what the anti-war movement believe in. They seem to believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that every movement of weapons is against peace. They may be right in the literal sense but I don't think we are in a position (yet) to let the big powers have all the weapons and the small ones taking the high-moral ground and getting slaughtered in the process...

Maskhadov

bet we wont see half the protests that went on with the US military using Shannon. Hypocrites

Dirk Gently

I have no problem at all with this military hardware going to Venezuela. In all probability these helicopters will be used to defend Venezuela from a likely U.S. attack in the future. After a failed U.S. coup and continuing U.S. attempts to destabilise the country, it is only natural that Venezuela should be allowed to defend itself. Notice how I said DEFEND. Venezuela is not a threat to its neighbours; it is a democracy with peaceful intentions and works hard to promote solidarity among neighbouring countries.
Unlike the U.S. who is using Shannon to illegally attack sovereign nations, the only threat coming from Venezuela is the threat of a good example. I bet George bush and Tony Blair would love to have the approval ratings that Chavez has.
I want the U.S. military to be banned from using Shannon because they are breaking international law and conquering Oil rich countries, killing innocent people in doing so.
I’m not against Venezuela receiving a defense against U.S. aggression through Shannon as it is their right as a free independent democratic country to defend themselves against U.S. aggression.

SeanW

If they were shipping nukes to China or machettes to Zimbabwe or something like that I would agree there is a problem.

But I don't get what's wrong with this? Venezuela is a peaceful, democratic state that geniuinely requires this stuff for defense. What's the big deal?

lostexpectation

mike65 wrote:

Heres the bbc link to the back story

Hmmmm.

Mike.

What does the Hmm mean, no leader of any country should have too much power or use supposed attack to increase his stranglehold, but I think Chavez has plenty of reasons to need those weapons.

Maybe my viewpoint is not what the anti-war movement believe in. They seem to believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that every movement of weapons is against peace. They may be right in the literal sense but I don't think we are in a position (yet) to let the big powers have all the weapons and the small ones taking the high-moral ground and getting slaughtered in the process...

If Chavez wants the weapons so much he fly them the other ****ing way around the world! Theres no reason they need to come through Ireland even for technical stops.

mike65

My 'hmmm' relates to Chavez tripping the invocation of Godwins Law.

That and the idea that a military of 85,000 needs another 1,000,000 AK 47s and that was'nt considered enough for El Presidente.

Mike.

esskay

I think it would be foolish to think that someone is not making a heap of money from these shipments passing through Shannon or getting some kind of benefit from it. If you know the right people money will get you anything in Ireland these days. Like the Rossport gas fiasco, Shell filled someone's pockets to get a couple of billion euros worth of gas for nowt. FFS even Nigeria is getting a cut of the profits from the oil taken from their country but Ireland is giving the gas away for free!!! Allowing a few helicopters through is small potato's. No wonder they put restrictions on the Freedom Of Information Act. :eek:

A Dub in Glasgo

I take it the OP thinks that moving military equipment through Shannon airport is wrong. No mention in the original post. The thread seems to be a precursor for slagging off Chavez.

pete

as it happens if it was the three mi-26t's in the Antonov it wouldn't necessarily have constituted "munitions"

The Mi-26t is the world's largest heavy-lift helicopter. It is capable of lifting large size cargo items weighing up to 20 tons, either inside the cargo compartment or on an external sling. A combined internal and external load configuration is also permissible, providing the total load does not exceed 20 tons.

The helicopter can be widely employed at construction sites, airlifting and mounting heavy industrial equipment, drilling rigs, electric power line installations, bridge construction, logging operations and other complex civil engineering operations as well as on fire-fighting duties.

regardless of that, I'd have to agree with the OP & his indymedia friends - the militarisation of Shannon is wrong, regarldess of the direction the stuff is going.

another world

By not letting this equipment through Shannon it will make no difference to whether the equipment actually makes it to Venezuela or not. The question now is a moral one and not a practical one. Morally we should be obliged to help the oppressed. If you see an innocent person being beaten on the street you would at least try to help, especially if you are able to. By not supporting a country such as Venezuela in the defence of their country we are in a way being complicit in potential future crimes against it.

This quote by Eli Weisel sums it up for me, "Take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." The Irish government is being very clever and trying to take sides with the oppressor - I'm sure they will jump ship just as quick if they ever think the US bubble will burst. It's amazing how short their memories are. When we were the oppressed we accepted help from anyone we could.

I personally think we should have a properly worded referendum on neutrality and shannon to clear the air once and for all on this issue.