KQ, missed flop, but should I call!

Imposter

It's a 100€ tournament with 50€ rebuys and 50€ add-on.
We're just in the freezeout part of the game.

There's 19 left. The table is 6 handed. 3 places get a 3200 ticket to a bigger game and 4th gets 100€.

You've got KQ utg and make it 700 preflop (blinds 100/200). Everyone folds to the BB who calls. Flop comes T93 rainbow. BB checks and you bet out 800. BB thinks a bit and goes all-in for 2375 (1575 more to you - Pot was 1500 at the flop). You've got about 2300 so you'll have 700 left if you call and lose. Call or Fold?

BB has played pretty tight throughout the rebuy. He won a few pots with reasonable hands early on and got all-in twice towards the end with TT and AQs. He has folded a few times to continuation bets from you before but that was very early on when blinds were low.

You've played quite solid too and only shown down reasonable hands. You've reraised all-in against an idiot when you had 99 (and there was another caller) in the rebuy but that's the only semi-dodgy play you've made.

Call or fold? and of course why?

careca

Fold straight away.

you asked him a question with the continuation bet and he answered you. you have described him as tight so theres little chance hes having a go. And as for your play/image, it no longer makes a difference as he has gone all in and therefore you cannot reraise him.

If you thought a K or Q would be good enough to win it might make some small allowances but thats not even certain. you still have 11 bb left so I would fold.

dunkamania

Fold defo,what hand do you think you are beating?

You have only four outs to the nuts,and six to what will probably be the second best hand.

Waylander

I think I might call here. I'd have the BB on a T with a decent kicker. This leaves you with 9 or 10 outs, giving you a 40 % chance of hitting, and there is value in the pot for the call.

fuzzbox

Waylander wrote:

I think I might call here. I'd have the BB on a T with a decent kicker. This leaves you with 9 or 10 outs, giving you a 40 % chance of hitting, and there is value in the pot for the call.

Decent kicker = 9/J/Q/K/A

You dont always have 9/T outs ... and sometimes he has AA/KK

Waylander

Yeah you are probably right FB. I don't think he would have AA or KK but he could well have a K or Q which would leave you needing a miracle. Think I had a brain freeze moment there:o

myflipflops

no option but to fold. if he shows you 10 2 and you know you have 10 outs (3X K, 3 X Q, 4 X J) then fine but as fuzzbox says, the range of hands you can put him is is probably AT down to 9 10 and he could conceivably have 33, 99 or even 1010 in which case ur f**cked. IMO calling with overcards is not good, the fact is A2 has you beaten in this scenario. Fold the hand (you'd played it fine up to this point with a raise and a continuation bet when the other guy had shown weakness) and find a better spot to get ur money in.

padraig_f

I think a call is fine. You have between 4 and 10 outs. If he has KT, you still have 7 outs. You're getting 3 to 1 from the pot so you need about 6 outs. On average you make money by calling here IMO. But if you're going to call an all-in, I think you should have just pushed in the first place.

RoundTower

padraig_f wrote:

I think a call is fine. You have between 4 and 10 outs. If he has KT, you still have 7 outs. You're getting 3 to 1 from the pot so you need about 6 outs. On average you make money by calling here IMO. But if you're going to call an all-in, I think you should have just pushed in the first place.

I think it's a marginal fold. Definitely a fold if you think he could play TT/KK this way. But if he could have any T or any 9 or JQ or a total bluff (doesn't sound right if he is really tight and straightforward) then you can call.

I agree betting and calling is bad, if you were planning to call the all in you would be better off pushing or check raising, especially since you don't mind the free card.

edit: didnt realise you were in position, I mean pushing or checking.

Imposter

I was actually the BB in this hand and I had JQ!
Turn and river were bricks and K-high took it and I was out.

I thought my folding equity was huge here as I was pretty much convinced he hadn't a hand. That 800 bet was lower than his previous play suggested(1k would have been a different story). He wasn't happy with the call. The 700 bet preflop was perhaps a bit much too as any raises up to then were 600 but that wasn't really a factor in my decision.

I figured in his opinion of me into this and figured that if my read was right and he hadn't a hand, he couldn't cripple himself by calling it. I think he must of had some sort of a read on me (and he did take ages to call), but I certainly wouldn't make that call and put my tournament on the line!

Thinking about it today i've no idea how I would have played something like JT or QT in this hand and i'd probably have called with them preflop as he could easily have thought i'd fold my blind like I had done a few times previously! And here was me thinking I could play poker!

kpnuts

better to just push in straight away on that flop, IMO, imposter. You want MAX folding equity there, so better to just stop and go and not to have him invest a further 800 on the flop, cos that makes it harder for him to get away from it. still a decent play the check-raise all-in, but at this stage of the tourney with that much in the pot pre-flop relative to your stack, i favour pushing, then letting him make the decision for the full 2,300 or whatever it is.

Imposter

kpnuts wrote:

better to just push in straight away on that flop, IMO, imposter. You want MAX folding equity there, so better to just stop and go and not to have him invest a further 800 on the flop, cos that makes it harder for him to get away from it. still a decent play the check-raise all-in, but at this stage of the tourney with that much in the pot pre-flop relative to your stack, i favour pushing, then letting him make the decision for the full 2,300 or whatever it is.

I'm not sure I agree with that. Don't forget I hadn't seen the 800 bet before then and that was one of the main factors in my decision to push. I'm only getting called here by hands that are ahead of me. The only thing that move has going for it is the folding equity.

RoundTower

Imposter wrote:

The only thing that move has going for it is the folding equity.

You're not getting called by Jack high here, so yes, you do want him to fold.