How to keep 1st time buyer status

joeyrat

Myself & my BF are thinking of building a house together.

He already has a house.

How can we use the equity of his house against a mortgage, but still be considered 1st time buyers?

Just my name on deeds, to begin with?
Just my name on mortgage?
Or something like that.

surely there must be some loophole??

bullrunner

i would suggest consult your solicitior.

MorningStar

He isn't a first time buyer so why should he have the status?

The tax office also clarrified this last year and made it very clear that if the people involved in the property are not FTBs they can't claim the status for their portion. It didn't matter about the deeds if on the mortgage application.

If the whole thing is in your name you could just walk away with the property so your BF shouldn't do it. You would be surprised what can happen if people fall out.

Peace

joeyrat wrote:

surely there must be some loophole??

Like the others said he's not a FTB.

I'd love nothing more than to help you avoid paying your taxes.... but /trails off

Sleipnir

Technically, so long as his name doesn't appear on the purchase documents, anywhere then you would be a FTB.
He could re-mortgage his property and then give you a gift of the proceeds. He would actually have to gift it as if he loaned it to you to buy a property then the mortgage company would take issue as he would then have an interest in the property.
However gifting that much money to a stranger (which you are, in law) may incur a tax penalty.

As above, if this all happened and then you decided to dump him then he would have no entitlement to the house whatsoever.
Nor would he be able to claim back the money he gave you as it was a gift.

The_Conductor

Morningstar is right.
There is no loophole.
You could lie outright- but if you got caught the penalties would far exceed the higher stamp duty etc that you would have had to pay. Pleading ignorance would not work either..... Simply put the rules are in black and white, you qualify or you do not qualify. If you purchase a house with your boyfriend- you do *not* qualify. If you purchase a house on your own *without assistance from your boyfriend or other parties* then you do qualify. Whether parental assistance towards purchasing a first house disqualifies the recipient from FTB status is still under negotiation- but looks likely that it will not be allowed.

The_Conductor

Sleipnir wrote:

As above, if this all happened and then you decided to dump him then he would have no entitlement to the house whatsoever.
Nor would he be able to claim back the money he gave you as it was a gift.

Several solicitor's firms are getting adept at drawing up what are the equivalent to second legal mortgages on property- which are about the only lien that would be possible in a case like this.

Re: His lending or gifting you the money- under Revenue rules this does negate your FTB status (parental assistance is also under discussion for disallowance in the same context).

Peace

If it were me, i'd release the equity from my sale and pay the increased amount of stamp that is being incurred on the purchase due to my status as a non FTB. Fairs fair IMHO.

But thats just me.

MorningStar

I think you are entiled to FTBs on the portion you are buying to clarify what I said

joeyrat

Sleipnir wrote:

Technically, so long as his name doesn't appear on the purchase documents, anywhere then you would be a FTB.

What if, in a year or so down the line, I then decide to make this property the family home, & put his name on the deeds then, what happens in that case?

peterwilson

smccarrick wrote:

If you purchase a house with your boyfriend- you do *not* qualify.

Wrong.

I own a house with my brother (bought in 97)
I bought a house with my grilfriend last year.
She had no ownership of any house.
We (as a couple) were a FTB.

p

MorningStar

joeyrat wrote:

What if, in a year or so down the line, I then decide to make this property the family home, & put his name on the deeds then, what happens in that case?

If you can buy the house on your own without him on the mortgage why would you want him on the deeds?
Why put him on the deads at all? If he is living in th ehouse as a shared place after 2 years he can be given it free of taxes.
If he is on the mortgage the tax people can come and get you at any point.

Noelie

smccarrick wrote:

He could re-mortgage his property and then give you a gift of the proceeds

If he gifted the money it would be taxable wouldn't it?

joeyrat wrote:

What if, in a year or so down the line, I then decide to make this property the family home, & put his name on the deeds then, what happens in that case?

If you aren't married then he would have to pay tax on the half of the house you just put into his name

MorningStar

peterwilson wrote:

Wrong.

I own a house with my brother (bought in 97)
I bought a house with my grilfriend last year.
She had no ownership of any house.
We (as a couple) were a FTB.

p

You didn't buy the house? I am taking it her boyfriend did. In heritance is different

Sleipnir

peterwilson wrote:

Wrong.

I own a house with my brother (bought in 97)
I bought a house with my grilfriend last year.
She had no ownership of any house.
We (as a couple) were a FTB.

p

From Oasis.gov

A first-time buyer is defined as a person (or where there is more than one buyer, each person):

Who has not on any previous occasion, either individually or jointly, purchased or built on his/her own behalf a house in Ireland or abroad;
Where the property purchased is occupied by the purchaser or a person on his/her behalf as his/her only or principal place of residence and
Where no rent is derived from the property for five years after completion of the current purchase.*

The_Conductor

peterwilson wrote:

Wrong.

I own a house with my brother (bought in 97)
I bought a house with my grilfriend last year.
She had no ownership of any house.
We (as a couple) were a FTB.

p

Very similarly to you- I bought my first house in 2001 (with my parents- who supplied finance through a second legal mortgage) and am now in the process of purchasing a house with my fiancee. I have been told by my solicitor that we do *not* qualify in any regard as FTBers. The fact that you have previously owned property should perclude you from benefitting as a FTB. You, as part of a couple, were not legally a FTB. I am not a solicitor and cannot quote the relevant law- but have been told by two seperate sources (my own solicitor and also the legal advisor for supplies advice on Accord pre-marriage courses) that we would not qualify.

The_Conductor

Noelie wrote:

If he gifted the money it would be taxable wouldn't it?

If he gifted you the money- yes, it would be taxable. There are certain thresholds and limits (and also a gift from a legal stranger is treated differently to one from a relative).

joeyrat

Noelie wrote:

If you aren't married then he would have to pay tax on the half of the house you just put into his name

Ok, so say I wait until we are married, then I put his name on the deeds, would he then have to pay tax on that, or would we then have to pay the stamp duty & whatever on the mortgage because of his non FTB status?






To MorningStar:- if we built a house together, even if I could initially afford the mortgage to pay for it, he'd still be paying me for his share of the mortgage, even if it wasn't in his name, so of course I'm going to protect him by making sure his name's on the deeds, if I can do it that way.

The house isn't about me wanting a house, affording the house & so keeping it for myself:- it's the commitment that we're going to be (or at least planning to be) together for the rest of our lives & want to share everything for the rest of our lives & so building our house together is the start of that.

I know things can turn sour, that's why I would put his name on deeds whenever I could

MorningStar

joeyrat wrote:

To MorningStar:- if we built a house together, even if I could initially afford the mortgage to pay for it, he'd still be paying me for his share of the mortgage, even if it wasn't in his name, so of course I'm going to protect him by making sure his name's on the deeds, if I can do it that way.

Then the answer is simple no you can't get FTB consideration if you are not FTBs.

joeyrat wrote:

The house isn't about me wanting a house, affording the house & so keeping it for myself:- it's the commitment that we're going to be (or at least planning to be) together for the rest of our lives & want to share everything for the rest of our lives & so building our house together is the start of that.

I know things can turn sour, that's why I would put his name on deeds whenever I could

Then get married first that is the comittment.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying I was just pointing out the risk and danger.

joeyrat

MorningStar wrote:

Then get married first that is the comittment.

Yes, but a married couple certainly would look suss getting a mortgage out in just one of their names, so even less likely to get FTB perks

MorningStar

joeyrat wrote:

Yes, but a married couple certainly would look suss getting a mortgage out in just one of their names, so even less likely to get FTB perks

I think you are missing the point you are not entitled to them. It is fraud to do anything else why do you think he should get the entitlement* again?

*I am assuming he bought and* got FTBs perks

joeyrat

Because if not, why not.

The government screws us over every day & gives V little back in return.

Why not try & get as much back off them if you can.

So, if I can find any Legal loopholes whatsoever, you can be sure I'm going to use them to the max.

Sorry if that offends any of you more straight minded people


But besides all that:- I really can't believe that say:- I could own a house right now that I got FTB perks on, meet the man of my dreams in 5 years & marry him & I can't sign 1/2 or the house over to him then without being penalised? Surely that can't be the case?

If it is:- then that just proves my point of being constantly screwed over by the government!!

Sponge Bob

joeyrat wrote:

Why not try & get as much back off them if you can.

Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated into the tax net beacuse of that BF of yours not being an FTB .

MorningStar

joeyrat wrote:

Because if not, why not.

The government screws us over every day & gives V little back in return.

Why not try & get as much back off them if you can.

So, if I can find any Legal loopholes whatsoever, you can be sure I'm going to use them to the max.

Sorry if that offends any of you more straight minded people


But besides all that:- I really can't believe that say:- I could own a house right now that I got FTB perks on, meet the man of my dreams in 5 years & marry him & I can't sign 1/2 or the house over to him then without being penalised? Surely that can't be the case?

If it is:- then that just proves my point of being constantly screwed over by the government!!

You aren't in the situation you are suggesting so everything you are suggesting is fraud

Actually your post proves you want to screw us all over not the government screwing us. As a couple you want to own two houses and claim a tax for those trying to buy just one.Overall I suggest you read my sig as it says it all what I think of what you just posted.

HelterSkelter

Why can't they make the OP pay half the stamp duty? Doesn't seem very fair to me.

OP, you might be interested in this link:
http://www.revenue.ie/leaflets/first_time_buyers.htm

MorningStar

HelterSkelter wrote:

Why can't they make the OP pay half the stamp duty? Doesn't seem very fair to me.

OP, you might be interested in this link:
http://www.revenue.ie/leaflets/first_time_buyers.htm

Becasue once people are given an inch they take a mile and also expect it

"The basis for this treatment is that, in such circumstances, the house is held for the person providing the monies used in the purchase of the house by way of a resulting trust presumed in favour of that person. This treatment applies whether or not all the parties providing the purchase monies, or all the parties to any borrowings, are actually named in the deed of transfer.

Notwithstanding this treatment, to take account of particular situations, Revenue is prepared to accept that a child, who is a first time buyer, will not be precluded from claiming first time buyer relief where a parent acts as a co-mortgagor in the following circumstances:"

They make enough allowances and the OP is suggesting a way to defraud the state entirely of stamp duty so that is why.

joeyrat

joeyrat wrote:

I really can't believe that say:- I could own a house right now that I got FTB perks on, meet the man of my dreams in 5 years & marry him & I can't sign 1/2 or the house over to him then without being penalised? Surely that can't be the case?

MorningStar, forget the moral highground for one minute & answer me this, pure & simple. (Anyone else fell free to answer also)

Say this was my first post & it read:- 10 years ago I bought a house, when I was single. Since then, I've got married & we've moved into my husbands house. We'd now like to put add our names to each others deeds.
Will we be penalised in any way for this, or financially, would we be better off keeping our names off the deeds.

What would you tell me then?
Is that legal, is it not, are penalties incurred or not?

MorningStar

joeyrat wrote:

MorningStar, forget the moral highground for one minute & answer me this, pure & simple. (Anyone else fell free to answer also)

Say this was my first post & it read:- 10 years ago I bought a house, when I was single. Since then, I've got married & we've moved into my husbands house. We'd now like to put add our names to each others deeds.
Will we be penalised in any way for this, or financially, would we be better off keeping our names off the deeds.

What would you tell me then?
Is that legal, is it not, are penalties incurred or not?

It isn't a moral high ground it is just being moral and fair. You are trying to fraud the state.

I'd say why bother? You are entiled to inherite the property without any penalty .

I'd point out you are not saying that or in that situation. As the mortgage will have his name you can't really avoide it or are you saying you can get the mortgage in your name only? Otherwise there is apaper trail that means you may be caught quite easily.

joeyrat

TBH, we're only at the talking stage, havne't been to see about a mortgage or anything like that, so haven't made any decisions whatsoever.

I was just asking the question to see if there was any legal ways around it.

Thanks for the advice