Provo Criminality

mike65

Jasus lads you'd think they'd have a bit of wit esp right now in the aftermath of Donaldson and the latest (yawn) attempt to revive normal politics in Norn Iron.

RTÉ News has learned that one of the men arrested by gardaí in connection with the hijacking of a vehicle in Co Meath was released under the terms of the Good Friday agreement in 1998.

At that time he was serving a six-year sentence for possession of explosives.

A total of three men were arrested in Co Westmeath in connection with the incident and it is understood at least two of the men are former members of the IRA.

The truck, which was carrying €300,000 worth of vodka, was hijacked on the Dublin side of Dunshaughlin.

It was later discovered by gardaí near Delvin in Co Westmeath, and the driver of the truck was found to be uninjured.

Just can't keep thier sticky fingers out of other peoples tills eh?

Mike.

Cork

Not another thread on Provo Criminality? On these boards I think we have had many discussions on this topic. But 8 years after the Good Friday Agreement this report on the RTE website is disturbing.

How many crates of Vodka is the Peace Process worth?

Man held over hijacking*had been*freed in 1998
10 April 2006 17:57

RTÉ News has learned that one of the men arrested by gardaí in connection with the hijacking of a vehicle in Co Meath was released under the terms of the Good Friday agreement in 1998.

At that time he was serving a six-year sentence for possession of explosives.

A total of three men were arrested in Co Westmeath in connection with the incident and it is understood at least two of the men are former members of the IRA.



The truck, which was carrying €300,000 worth of vodka, was hijacked on the Dublin side of Dunshaughlin.

The IRA is believed to have perfected the recipe for Smirnoff Red Label vodka, among other spirits, and has a well-developed distribution network for its counterfeit products in pubs and clubs which it controls, particularly in Belfast.

Raids on illegal distilleries, mainly in border areas, have uncovered bottling and capping machinery and high- quality copies of brand labels. Many of the products are designed for use in pub optics.

But what are the SF doing about this?

No member of the IRA can be a criminal, Sinn Féin President Gerry Adams claimed today.

Mr Adams said there could be no link whatsoever between republican activism and criminality.

Irish Examiner December 13, 2004*

What is so annoying is the DUP have plenty of excuses not to restart NI insitutions. They have been handed these on a plate by SF.

Ian Paisley must be having a right laugh at SF. I personally feel betrayed by continued Provo criminality and the lack of political progress in NI.

miju

i'm just going to put forward an observation on this and fully expect the wrath of boards for it too LOL but:

the IRA is being disbanded (slowly)and put (most if not all) arms beyond use, therefore would it not stand to reason that certain criminals inside the IRA have taken up what they do best as a career choice as it will be difficult for the IRA leadership to control them seeing as how they've no longer a war to wage and discipline begins to further break down

so therefore just because someone commits a crime was a previous member it doesnt neccesarily mean it's the IRA kicking back into life planning a new campaign there's such a thing as indisciplin / stupidy among some of the ex members, dont forget the guys arrested could be CIRA , RIRA as well

just find people are always quick to jump the gun (if you pardon the pun)

joebhoy1916

Quote:
The IRA is believed to have perfected the recipe for Smirnoff Red Label vodka, among other spirits, and has a well-developed distribution network for its counterfeit products in pubs and clubs which it controls, particularly in Belfast.

Raids on illegal distilleries, mainly in border areas, have uncovered bottling and capping machinery and high- quality copies of brand labels. Many of the products are designed for use in pub optics.



But what are the SF doing about this?


If the IRA have the perfect recipe for Vodka why would they steal a truck load of it. :rolleyes:

biko

Shouldn't the name of this thread be "Suspected crimes by (what's understood as) former members of the IRA"?

Nothing "suspected" about being caught in the act...

Sponge Bob

Earthman wrote:

Nothing "suspected" about being caught in the act...

Don't assume that all ex IRA members are cuurently into villainy , quite a lot of the border mob are but lots of them have simply retired and got a job ....which is what they are supposed to have done after the GFA

mike65

At what point does a Provo become an ex member - is it before, during or after the robbery?

Mike.

biko

The volunteer stops being a member of the organisation when he/she is thrown out or retired. Or the organisation is stood down, as in this case.

Dave!

They're issued a statement today...
http://www.noticias.info/asp/aspComunicados.asp?nid=167027&src=0

"This Easter marks the 90th anniversary of the 1916 Rising, a turning point in the history of Ireland.

Irish republicans remember with pride those who gave their lives that extraordinary Easter and the leaders executed in the weeks that followed.

The leadership of Óglaigh na hÉireann extends solidarity to the families of all of our patriot dead from every generation and in particular those from this phase of struggle.

We send solidarity greetings to our imprisoned comrades and their families.

This year we also commemorate the valiant prison Hunger Strike of 1981. Ten brave men - freedom fighters and patriots - died. Their legacy and that of Frank Stagg and Michael Gaughan, lives on and their fortitude and courage continues to inspire.

Following our statement of July 28 last year, IRA Volunteers have adhered, in the spirit and the letter, to the decisions and instructions outlined by the leadership.

We commend the discipline of our Volunteers and salute their commitment.

The IRA has no responsibility for the tiny number of former republicans who have embraced criminal activity. They do so for self-gain. We repudiate this activity and denounce those involved.

The IRA remains committed to the peace process. Our decisions and actions of last July and September are proof of that.

The leadership of Óglaigh na hÉireann believes that it is possible to achieve the republican goal of a united Ireland through the alternative route of purely peaceful and democratic means.

We know that many republicans are frustrated and angry at the positions taken up by the two governments over the last year. However, in our view, the will of the people is to see advances in the political process.

The onus is on the two governments and the political parties to ensure that this happens. The Irish Government in particular has a duty to see beyond the current phase of the process. Its responsibility is to promote an end to partition and to create the conditions for the unity and independence of Ireland.

The IRA is fully committed to the ideals and principles of the Proclamation of Easter 1916.

We urge maximum unity in the time ahead.

Beirigí bua."

Make what you like of that...

Cork

Well there is only one Óglaigh na hÉireann and it is not the IRA.

8 years after the Good Friday Agreement - you'd think they'd cop onto this.

The IRA has no responsibility for the tiny number of former republicans

Unacceptable cop out.

How does this organisation finance itself?

They never point this out in their bland and pointless statements.

A Dub in Glasgo

Cork wrote:

Unacceptable cop out.
.

Do you think that organisations should always be held responsible for people who once were members? Is their a time limit? 5 months? 5 years? 50 years?

Concannon7

Cork wrote:

Well there is only one Óglaigh na hÉireann and it is not the IRA.

8 years after the Good Friday Agreement - you'd think they'd cop onto this.



Unacceptable cop out.

How does this organisation finance itself?

They never point this out in their bland and pointless statements.

How is it unacceptable? If its true that these are former members how can you blame the PIRA? The PIRA would no longer be responsible for what these men do. I dont know whats so hard to understand about that.

Galway_mad_bhoy

Galway_mad_bhoy wrote:

How is it unacceptable? If its true that these are former members how can you blame the PIRA? The PIRA would no longer be responsible for what these men do. I dont know whats so hard to understand about that.

PIRA are an unaccountable secret organisation.
People are being asked to trust the word of an organisation that murdered and maimed for decades with impunity and with a complete disregard for the views of the people of Ireland.
The fact that people wont believe what they say,now that is understandable.

FTA69

Cork wrote:

Unacceptable cop out.

So what exactly is the IRA to do about a small number of its ex-members who do embrace criminality? Discipline them themselves, if they did you'd be whinging about that, all they can do is let the guards handle the matter, which they are already doing.

Heinrich

Criminality is not exclusive to members or ex-members of the IRA! We have some pretty expensive tribunals investigating Fianna Fail politicians' misdeeds, notably one C. J. Haughey. There is quite a long list....

lostexpectation

I wonder if all these operations to nab fuel smugglers is about stopping 'criminality' or something else?

lostexpectation

lostexpectation wrote:

I wonder if all these operations to nab fuel smugglers is about stopping 'criminality' or something else?

I'd rather all criminality is chased by the Gardaí and I'm glad when I hear of any case being investigated.They're only doing their job after all.
Are you suggesting that theres some kind of political interference in the Gardaí? or what are you suggesting?

lostexpectation

that resources are being distributed by whats politicaly useful for certain somebody?

Unless you can come up with something more concrete than that lost expectation,I have to ask you not to post opinion as fact.

Cork

FTA69 wrote:

So what exactly is the IRA to do about a small number of its ex-members who do embrace criminality?

The defence forces have been combating Provo Criminality for years.

What legitimate funding arrangements do the Provoshave to fund themselves?

Small number?

joebhoy1916

Well that aint true they get alot of support from groups from
America and all over the world. Im not saying there totally innocent
sure who is? Let me guess your going to say Liam Lawler? :rolleyes:

Nobody is perfect. Sure what do you care how they get there
money. Did they ever steal from you? Did they ever do anything
bad to ya?

BuffyBot

Nobody is perfect. Sure what do you care how they get there
money. Did they ever steal from you? Did they ever do anything
bad to ya?

Oh dear...do we even have to answer that, or can you figure out what is wrong with that statement on your own?

miju

Cork wrote:

The defence forces have been combating Provo Criminality for years.

What legitimate funding arrangements do the Provoshave to fund themselves?

Small number?

yes but significantly LESS since they stood down,

on a quick personal note, i always find people are too quick to jump down the throat of the provo's, give them a chance I'm sure it takes a while to effect an "attitude change" which is apparent not only inside the provo's but in the mindsets of alot of people in this country

Cork

joebhoy1916 wrote:

Sure what do you care how they get there
money. Did they ever steal from you? Did they ever do anything
bad to ya?

Well Provo criminality has cost the excheqer of this country.

Money that could be spent on health, education & social welfare.

give them a chance I'm sure it takes a while to effect an "attitude change" which is apparent not only inside the provo's but in the mindsets of alot of people in this country

It has been 8 years since the signing of the Good Friday Agreement.

The Provos and their supporters may not be too bright but I think after 8 years of an international agreement - their is no excuse for breaking the laws of this country.

Sponge Bob

Cork wrote:

The Provos and their supporters may not be too bright but I think after 8 years of an international agreement - their is no excuse for breaking the laws of this country.

Look, 15000 people were lifted for provo activity during the troubles, at least 14000 are leading normal lives with jobs mortgages and kids now. Being an ex provo is not a crime .

Dont overlay the present with uneccesary artefacts from the past Cork, most of these people have moved on and so should teh rest of us. If you decide that the 14000 are still crims then remember that our jails can only hold 3000 so start building !!!!!

Victor

Sponge Bob wrote:

Dont overlay the present with uneccesary artefacts from the past Cork, most of these people have moved on and so should teh rest of us. If you decide that the 14000 are still crims then remember that our jails can only hold 3000 so start building !!!!!

They are!

http://www.irishprisons.ie/newsItem.asp?newsID=34

biko

Cork wrote:

The Provos and their supporters may not be too bright but I think after 8 years of an international agreement - their is no excuse for breaking the laws of this country.

I don't agree with that generalisation. Particularly after reading the book "Inside the Maze".

"The vast majority of the Loyalists would have ended up in prison for one crime or another but everyone understood that very few indeed of the Republicans would ever have seen the inside of a prison if it hadn't been for the troubles."
One former governor of the Kesh to Belfast journalist and author Chris Ryder.

And it's "there", not "their"...

Sand

I don't agree with that generalisation. Particularly after reading the book "Inside the Maze".

"The vast majority of the Loyalists would have ended up in prison for one crime or another but everyone understood that very few indeed of the Republicans would ever have seen the inside of a prison if it hadn't been for the troubles."
One former governor of the Kesh to Belfast journalist and author Chris Ryder.

And it's "there", not "their"...

So youre saying IRA men are not criminally minded, hence its safe to assume that 3 Provos found engaged in criminality must be doing so under direction? Fair enough.

on a quick personal note, i always find people are too quick to jump down the throat of the provo's

Bless the poor dears.

So what exactly is the IRA to do about a small number of its ex-members who do embrace criminality? Discipline them themselves, if they did you'd be whinging about that, all they can do is let the guards handle the matter, which they are already doing.

They could co-operate by revealing to Gardai (and the PSNI, seeing as the war is over...) exactly what schemes were being pulled to fund the Provos life of luxury for the past 30 years, demonstrate that they have been completely shut down and volunteer information to any investigation of ex-Provos who besmirch the good name of their "movement" by engaging in criminality?

Or they could publish their membership list, clearly identifying who is and who isnt a member so no one will get confused by the way Provos suddenly become ex-Provos as soon as theyre caught. Sure it would be in their interest to make completely clear whose actions reflect on them.

Actions speak louder than words, SFIRA have a lot of talk about criminality but they dont back it up. Its even hard to understand wtf they mean by criminality. What is criminality in provo speak these days?

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

ghostdancer

Cork wrote:

The Provos and their supporters may not be too bright but I think after 8 years of an international agreement - their is no excuse for breaking the laws of this country.

just aswell that no Provos were involved in this robbery isn't it?

although i see all the usuals choose to ignore the "former" part of the description in favour of the usual republican bashing.

don't mind the fact that neither the Minister for Justice, nor the Gardai believe the IRA to be involved, sure any oul excuse to label all republicans as criminals is good enough.

glad to see the patheticness of the anti-Republican board members is going strong.

ghostdancer

ghostdancer wrote:

although i see all the usuals choose to ignore the "former" part of the description in favour of the usual republican bashing.

You could just as easily say all the usuals are out in force with the denials...

don't mind the fact that neither the Minister for Justice, nor the Gardai believe the IRA to be involved, sure any oul excuse to label all republicans as criminals is good enough.

Yes but theres the view that it's simply not good enough.The IRA know who these individuals are,much as they know who is involved in criminality.They should be shopping them at this stage instead of letting their activities tarnish the reputation of Sinn Féin which is what they are doing regardless of what you might say.

glad to see the patheticness of the anti-Republican board members is going strong.

Give it a rest will you.Theres nothing more pathetic than attacking posters just because you cant put a bit of substance or discussion into your own post.
If you cant beat the views of people you oppose, you shouldnt reply at all otherwise you're only strengthening their views to be honest with you by replying in the vacant narrow way that you have.

RedPlanet

Earthman wrote:

Yes but theres the view that it's simply not good enough.The IRA know who these individuals are,much as they know who is involved in criminality.They should be shopping them at this stage instead of letting their activities tarnish the reputation of Sinn Féin which is what they are doing regardless of what you might say.

Ah, so the IRA should turn touts, and do the gardai's work for them?
Don't hold your breath...

By the way i don't think anybody arrested is a member of Sinn Fein but it seems you are insinuating that they are. What's up with that?

RedPlanet

RedPlanet wrote:

Ah, so the IRA should turn touts, and do the gardai's work for them?
Don't hold your breath...

Nope I'm suggesting that the IRA created these felons,the Ira should have a chat with them regarding the fact that solo runs arent acceptable.

By the way i don't think anybody arrested is a member of Sinn Fein but it seems you are insinuating that they are. What's up with that?

Well I was merely pointing out that when joe ordinary public hear about these activities, they associate them with the IRA and its SF that get the backlash in terms of voters who might consider them but dont.

It's one they need to sort out and suggesting its not something that they can is to ignore the reaping of what was sowed.
Maybe they can't but then its their achilles heel.

RedPlanet

Earthman wrote:

Nope I'm suggesting that the IRA created these felons,the Ira should have a chat with them regarding the fact that solo runs arent acceptable.

On the basis of past incidences i'd say that today if the IRA have a "chat" with somebody they'd take it with a pinch of salt. Unless the IRA backup what they say with...kneecappings, beatings, and violence in general. But i suppose that's something you wouldn't support. So where does that leave things?
I guess your hoping that the IRA's past actions of violence against their own will be currency enough to control renegade elements today.
Wishful thinking i reckon.

Earthman wrote:

Well I was merely pointing out that when joe ordinary public hear about these activities, they associate them with the IRA and its SF that get the backlash in terms of voters who might consider them but dont.

Fair enough but joe ordinary public gets his news from "the Star", "the Sun", "the Sunday World" and all manner of puke tabloids and rubbish RTE.
So on that basis it is a pure miracle that SF are 3 times the size of the PD's.

RedPlanet

RedPlanet wrote:

Fair enough but joe ordinary public gets his news from "the Star", "the Sun", "the Sunday World" and all manner of puke tabloids and rubbish RTE.
So on that basis it is a pure miracle that SF are 3 times the size of the PD's.

Actually Iirc one of the SW's severest SF critics Paul Williams has also used that paper to slate the current governments mess that is the health service.
And who is the current minister for health? Yes Mary Harney.
Who has been deputy head of this government for nearly 10 years? Yes Mary Harney.

While I'm on the subject, you dont think much of Joe publics ability to form their own opinion then?
Regardless, thats what you are up against, the public are the majority and I guess thats democracy.


If after ten years of that, you dont get more SF seats than say the labour party , you've got to ask yourself whats wrong.Two things spring to mind (1) The association with some criminals whose genesis is within republicanism and who are still tarnishing its New image. and of course (2) policies.

This thread though is mainly to discuss number one there.
I'll have to put it to you, that whether they are disowned or whether they are former,the tarnishing only ends when their criminality stops.

It's not easy to stop it,I know that. Actually I expect it eventually will stop to a trickle because,I'd imagine that the current Republican leadership is cleverer than the elements behind it and they know its counter productive.